Why wait to "GO BIG?"

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 03:23 AM

Why should the first cycle be just a smal one?

(Will appreciate facts instead of different opinions and questions about stats and diet).

Regards

**helium3** · 10-07-2006, 04:13 AM

im gonna take a stab at this:

on my first cycle i gained 22lbs which is fair wack and is roughly what most would get off their first.

if i had added deca ,eq and dbol in their would i have gained 50lbs?no i doubt it,your body can only grow so fast for so long,so why waist your money when youll grow just fine off of your first few cycles?

**helium3** · 10-07-2006, 04:15 AM

you could also face massive sides and not have a clue which one compound gave it to you!

**WelshWarrior** · 10-07-2006, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by helium3

im gonna take a stab at this:

on my first cycle i gained 22lbs which is fair wack and is roughly what most would get off their first.

if i had added deca,eq and dbol in their would i have gained 50lbs?no i doubt it,your body can only grow so fast for so long,so why waist your money when youll grow just fine off of your first few cycles?

I agree. My first dosages were laughably small, but the gains were 20lbs+.

Also when you come to do more cycles you'd be chasing gains with ever more ridiculous dosages.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 10-07-2006, 04:31 AM

As said above if you don't need huge doses to grow why take them. The idea is too minimize the risk as much as possible while still getting good results. The attitude of take as much as I can is irresponsible.

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 04:48 AM

Thank you for good answers. I understand what you are saying. But after reading about tren i really want to try it. And i dont want to loose the test or dbol , so what should i do?

My goal is to loose some fat while im gaining mass, thats why I wanna do tren so badly!

I´ve already stated doing tren a, test and dbol.. And is it everybodys opinion that i should wait with tren!

And last: What other than green tea is good for my liver while im on?

Regards

**bazerk** · 10-07-2006, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by msa8

My goal is to loose some fat while im gaining mass, thats why I wanna do tren so badly!Regards

From experience I would strongly suggest stepping up your cardio and lowering your carbs to "loose some fat." Start with test-e with what I have mentioned and up your protein and gain LBM. Good luck, fats a bitch, smack a bitch!

by the way this is my first time giving "real advice" post some good sh!t, thanking me and all that jazz! LOL

**IBdmfkr** · 10-07-2006, 08:47 AM

Because most individuals don't know jack about training/diet nor are their physiques ready for drugs in the first place, then they jump on cycle.. The first few cycles are used to learn how your body will respond to different compounds and dosages, it's merely a starting point.. I've met no one that just stops at one cycle so take it slow.

**taiboxa** · 10-07-2006, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Because most individuals don't know jack about training/diet nor are their physiques ready for drugs in the first place, then they jump on cycle.. The first few cycles are used to learn how your body will respond to different compounds and dosages, it's merely a starting point.. I've met no one that just stops at one cycle so take it slow.

could not of said it better my self...

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by msa8

Thank you for good answers. I understand what you are saying. But after reading about tren i really want to try it. And i dont want to loose the test or dbol , so what should i do?

My goal is to loose some fat while im gaining mass, thats why I wanna do tren so badly!

I´ve already stated doing tren a, test and dbol.. And is it everybodys opinion that i should wait with tren!

And last: What other than green tea is good for my liver while im on?

Regards

What's your cycle experience like bro? If its your first or second, you could be having a grand introduction into some pretty interesting side effects.

I could share with you some of my personal experiences when running prop/tren together...

**The_Canibal** · 10-07-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

What's your cycle experience like bro? If its your first or second, you could be having a grand introduction into some pretty interesting side effects.

I could share with you some of my personal experiences when running prop/tren together...

go ahead....i mean the "experience"...

**Haro3** · 10-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

What's your cycle experience like bro? If its your first or second, you could be having a grand introduction into some pretty interesting side effects.

I could share with you some of my personal experiences when running prop/tren together...

yea im curiuos to hear about the sides as well tren interests me for maybe a second or third cycle..

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 12:05 PM

Well, I ran a prop/tren for my "first". I had quite a bit of experience with M1T, 1AD, and 4AD before that though. And my post was in reference to the threadstarted that wondered about starting with alot of juice.

I will NOT say I regret it. Side effects (for me) were relatively minimal. But I had a horrible time trying to combat gyno sides. Nolva, then arimidex , then letro with b-6 and vitex. Constantly playing catch up. Was it the synovex? Was it the tren?

Sure I gained a solid, keepable 25 lbs and lost bf. But could I have done it with less? Have I set myself up for HAVING to use more juice in my next cycles? These are valid arguments that may come back to bite me later on.

Trust me, I am no fan of automatically recommending "test only" for a first. But I respect that there are plenty of good reasons for it.

**The_Canibal** · 10-07-2006, 12:40 PM

what were the dosages?did u ever use tren since?did u get gyno?

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 01:02 PM

It started at 75mg of Prop and 50mg of tren ED. I eventually went to 75/75 ED. Yes I've used it since and I love it. And yes I have some small lumps...But not really visible.

**The_Canibal** · 10-07-2006, 01:06 PM

do u think that nolvadex (tamoxifen ) is strong enough to keep gyno under control?and at what dosage?
thx for the infor bro...

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by The_Canibal

do u think that nolvadex (tamoxifen ) is strong enough to keep gyno under control?and at what dosage?
thx for the infor bro...

Absolutely not. I think Nolva is worthless until PCT. That's from my personal experience. Plus, I've read that it aggravates things with 19-nors (tren ).

I HAVE to use Letro during. I've learned that the hard way. Besides, i think there is plenty of evidence that says AIs are better than SERMs while ON.

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 03:09 PM

So this is my stats:

Age:25
Weight:130lbs/105kg
Height:6.1´/187cm
Bodyfat: 23%

I´m one week into my (first) cycle and after your comments i really want to lower my dosages. But I also wanna continue with both tren a and susta together with dbol as a kickstart for the first 4weeks, because i feel they are the perfect match and that tren will help me burn some fat.

My cycle as it look like today:
1-8week: 300mg susta eod, 75mg Tren A ed and 50mg dbol ed

I understand that you will recommend to loose the tren a and lower the dbol dosage, but can i lower all the dosages and continue with everything?

Have anyone gained more than 25lbs on a cycle before? Or is 25lbs on a 2month cycle the maximum amont of muscle gain?

Appreciate every answer and experience you got..

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 03:11 PM

bytheway; if i gain 25lbs i´ll be more than happy...

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 03:19 PM

Cut your test in half. Lower the tren to 50mg ED, and I would also lower the D's.

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 03:19 PM

WOAH....YOURE 6'1" and and 130 lbs??!?!!? With 23% bf???

Is this a misprint?

**body_by_donuts** · 10-07-2006, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by msa8

So this is my stats:
Age:25
Weight:130lbs/105kg
Height:6.1´/187cm
Bodyfat: 23%

Please do not take this in a negative way........

If these stats are true..... you need to work on your diet.

I hate to tell you this; but I do not think you will keep any of the gains made. And the gains you do make while on will be minimal.

Diet and rest are 100% of making gains....... and AAS just give you that extra 10% at the end of the day.

If those are truly your stats; stop before you hurt yourself.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-07-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by body_by_donuts

Please do not take this in a negative way........

If these stats are true..... you need to work on your diet.

I hate to tell you this; but I do not think you will keep any of the gains made. And the gains you do make while on will be minimal.

Diet and rest are 100% of making gains....... and AAS just give you that extra 10% at the end of the day.

If those are truly your stats; stop before you hurt yourself.

Don't surgar coat it.
He's either lieing about his stats to get a rise out of this thread, OR he's just plain retarded.

**powerliftmike** · 10-07-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by msa8

So this is my stats:

Age:25
Weight:130lbs/105kg
Height:6.1´/187cm
Bodyfat: 23%

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

WOAH....YOURE 6'1" and and 130 lbs??!?!!? With 23% bf???

Is this a misprint?

yes thats a misprint, b/c 105 kg is not 130 lb, its more like 231 lb.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-07-2006, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by powerliftmike

yes thats a misprint, b/c 105 kg is not 130 lb, its more like 231 lb.

thats better!

Is it even possible to be 6'1'' 130lbs with 23% bf? lol

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

Don't surgar coat it.
He's either lieing about his stats to get a rise out of this thread, OR he's just plain retarded.

LOL, try converting 105kg to pounds and you´ll see who´s the retard!!

Thanks powerliftmike for explaining..

So, its 230lbs, sorry if people thought i looked like an alien.. lol

But back to my question, should i reduce the dosages like fLgAtOr suggested??

**cfiler** · 10-07-2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by msa8

LOL, try converting 105kg to pounds and you´ll see who´s the retard!!

Thanks powerliftmike for explaining..

So, its 230lbs, sorry if people thought i looked like an alien.. lol

But back to my question, should i reduce the dosages like fLgAtOr suggested??

I'd suggest you cut first. Try loosing some bodyfat and keep training naturally.

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by cfiler

I'd suggest you cut first. Try loosing some bodyfat and keep training naturally.

What kind of bs answer is that?!?!?! I´ve been training hard to the bone for 5 years and I´ve decided that its time for me to try steroids . So thats why im here on this ANABOLIC STEROID QUESTION FORUM!!!!

Anyone els please?

**IBdmfkr** · 10-07-2006, 07:07 PM

lol you've been training hard for 5yrs yes, but you've also been eating like shit for 5yrs bro, 23% BF is fat as hell and at 6'1 you aren't carrying that much muscle with those stats. So they are just trying to look out for you.

That being said, you should alter your diet and training to provide the best results for your current situation.. IMO that would be to reduce calories to many clean meals/day in order to lose Bodyfat while gaining Muscle tissue to help speed your metabolism.. Although this would not be easy, but it would be the smartest thing to do.
I'd continue the cycle, lower the dosages to more reasonable controlable levels and set your goals.

**fLgAtOr** · 10-07-2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

lol you've been training hard for 5yrs yes, but you've also been eating like shit for 5yrs bro, 23% BF is fat as hell and at 6'1 you aren't carrying that much muscle with those stats. So they are just trying to look out for you.

That being said, you should alter your diet and training to provide the best results for your current situation.. IMO that would be to reduce calories to many clean meals/day in order to lose Bodyfat while gaining Muscle tissue to help speed your metabolism.. Although this would not be easy, but it would be the smartest thing to do.
I'd continue the cycle, lower the dosages to more reasonable controlable levels and set your goals.

That's the truth bro, even if you don't like it. If you're too stubborn to stop, at least lower your dosages.

**IBdmfkr** · 10-07-2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by msa8

My cycle as it look like today:
1-8week: 300mg susta eod, 75mg Tren A ed and 50mg dbol ed

Suggested cycle:
1-4 Dbol 50mg/day (Bulk first 4wks)
1-12 Sustanon 100mg EOD
5-10 Tren A 50mg/day (Start cutting calories and Bodyfat last 6wks)

The added muscle from the first 4-6wks will help with additional fat loss during the latter weeks, Obviously you don't know what cardio is so you'd want to start doing cardio and learning a thing or two about proper diet in the next 4wks coming into the cutting phase of your cycle.

**msa8** · 10-07-2006, 09:53 PM

LOL, thanks for the advice, i really appreciate it bro.

And I dont know much about bodyfat%, i found this online-calculator and it gave me 22.75% bf, but after reading your replays it think i fvcked it up.. I mean, im not that fat. I got a little beer belly, but i can see my abs if i really want to.. so something gotta be wrong with my bf%..

But i´ll try to lower my dosages as you suggested..

**IBdmfkr** · 10-07-2006, 10:42 PM

Post some pics in the Member Pics forum, I can guess it pretty close from there. Glad you chose to take the advice on dosages, you should still see Great results and be much more pleased without the sides.

Btw, no drinking while on the Dbol especially.. It's already liver toxic so don't chance it. I'd also suggest you post a sample of your diet in the Diet Forum.. Goodluck!