Heart attacks

[mkv213]

Just wondering, how many of you that have been in the game for a while know of people that use aas and have had heart attacks in their early 30's? Recently I've been meeting more and more guys in the guy that have had heart attacks by age 35. Not to say that everyone that juices will have this happen, but non the less...it's a new concern that I have. Again, it's hard to judge their family history, how much they were using..etc etc...

Feel free to add any input here.

[mickdiesel]

the heart and juice don't get along. I've never had one but I know 2 guys that did. one guy had aids though so u never know what caused his. the other guy was just an over do it juice bag. like 280, always breathin heavy. had an aortic anurism and died at work. cycled year round usually

[AnabolicBoy1981]

the heart and juice don't get along. I've never had one but I know 2 guys that did. one guy had aids though so u never know what caused his. the other guy was just an over do it juice bag. like 280, always breathin heavy. had an aortic anurism and died at work. cycled year round usually

so what we had here was an aortic anurism. not exactly a "myocardial infarction" induced by atherosclerotic lesions. However, these types of anurisms are exaserbated by atherosclerosis and further compounded by high blood pressure.

Steroids do cause both high bp and lipid problems. no mystery. BUT, some are worse than others. DHT derivatives seem to be the worst.These are commonly used in cutting cyles, winstrol, masteron, anavar to name a few. However, nandrolone in some studies actually improved lipid profiles.
Regular testosterone isnt that bad if you were using it with nolvadex all the way through. With an AI may be a little worse. some use both.
test with letro, an AI may be bad. my bro had a 300 cholestero reading from the letro alone.
However, there are things you can do, vitamins you can take etc.
i would say for the most part its not significant. temporary fluctuations in lipids wont kill you. Most users have a healthy lifestyle, eat right, take their vitamins, and obviously are quite active. I dont think running a 1 or 2 cycles a year is going to "clog" your arteries faster. If your worried, avoid DHT derived roids altogether. Use aromasin instead of letro on heavier cycles. Run nolva when you can(it actually improves lipids) . take your vitamins. especially niacin. pantothenic acid may help too. fishoils. and most important, GETCHER BLOODWORK DONE.
So as far as athersclerosis, thats all im sayin.

As far as enlargements of the left ventrical, lotsa athletes have that. yes the NATURAL ones too. its just a normal side effect of exertion over a period of time. but whatya gonna do, stop workin out? So dont worry too much bout that one.

[judostar]

so what we had here was an aortic anurism. not exactly a "myocardial infarction" induced by atherosclerotic lesions. However, these types of anurisms are exaserbated by atherosclerosis and further compounded by high blood pressure.

i think you just totally confused me

[hosam4ever]

i dont know anyone but as for my self after running any heavy cycle then after 2 weeks when iam on pct or after it i feel somthing wrong with my heart somtimes bets faster than usaul & some times slower i dont know y anybody tried this ?

[LatinoPR]

Im on hb medication,all my family (father/mother) have some kind of heart problems,but my bp is under control thanks to my medication.When im cycling i check my bp 3 times a week,so far no problems.






LPR....dermatology.

[mousetraps]

good info guys!

[stupidhippo]

As far as enlargements of the left ventrical, lotsa athletes have that. yes the NATURAL ones too. its just a normal side effect of exertion over a period of time. but whatya gonna do, stop workin out? So dont worry too much bout that one.

good post by u but in this part i have to say that its not as clear cut as u make it sound. Cause the enlargement of the heart wiht AAS users sometimes differs from the natural one.. it is more often associated with impaired systolic/diastolic function.. Also the heart hypertrophies more when on juice.. then there is also been specualtion of the remodelling of the cardiac muscle structure that could lead to problems etc etc etc.... There are several conflicting studies available about this topic and a clear consensus cant be made IMO u cant rule out heart troubles and steroid use (that they have a link)..... All I can say about this is that dont go overboard and u are probably safe.. also I have been thinking that maybe too much cardio and heavy aerobic training while on juice could be even harmful? dont know about that... none is definetly harmful too.. so dont stop ur cardio boys.

[marcus300]

Not heard of any direct heart attacks linking AAS use but Ive heard alot of heart problems ie palpitations.

[std4]

As far as enlargements of the left ventrical, lotsa athletes have that. yes the NATURAL ones too. its just a normal side effect of exertion over a period of time. but whatya gonna do, stop workin out? So dont worry too much bout that one.

Also the heart hypertrophies more when on juice.. then there is also been specualtion of the remodelling of the cardiac muscle structure that could lead to problems etc etc etc.... There are several conflicting studies available about this topic and a clear consensus cant be made IMO u cant rule out heart troubles and steroid use (that they have a link).....

bro, can you elaborate on the fact that juice it is more likely to cause cardiac hypertrophy ? give some goood explanations or studies on the issue. it would be very useful if you can list the drugs that are able to cause cardiac hypertrophy. Anthony Roberts says that winstrol can cause it, even at low doses! Are you aware of other drugs that potentially can cause it? we all want as much muscle on us as possible, but at the same time to be as healthy as possible. That's why i think this will be very important for all the bros on the board. expecting inputs...

[Hard Head]

Clen and T3 will cause more short term problems than gear.

[stupidhippo]

just go pubmed:ing or try highwire.org u can find a lot of studeis on the subject.. then u can read about them and make ur own conclusions. I dont got the time to start digging now.. they are really easy to find.. its more hard to decide on the credibility of each study.

[dianabol]

bro, can you elaborate on the fact that juice it is more likely to cause cardiac hypertrophy ? give some goood explanations or studies on the issue. it would be very useful if you can list the drugs that are able to cause cardiac hypertrophy. Anthony Roberts says that winstrol can cause it, even at low doses! Are you aware of other drugs that potentially can cause it? we all want as much muscle on us as possible, but at the same time to be as healthy as possible. That's why i think this will be very important for all the bros on the board. expecting inputs...

I'll try. I'm a norwegian medicin student, so my english is not very good, but I'll do my best. Juice causes cardiac hypertrophy because the muscle cells in the heart are of the same kind like skeleton muscles. Such cells are equipped with receptors for hormones. As hormonelevels rices in the blood, more of these receptors will be fed. As the receptors are beeing stimulated by hormones, the hormones will have a effect on the cells. Anabolic means (building), therefore, anabolic steroids causes musclegrowth of every muscle which have such hormone receptor. The heart does. The result is hypertrophy.

[std4]

I'll try. I'm a norwegian medicin student, so my english is not very good, but I'll do my best. Juice causes cardiac hypertrophy because the muscle cells in the heart are of the same kind like skeleton muscles. Such cells are equipped with receptors for hormones. As hormonelevels rices in the blood, more of these receptors will be fed. As the receptors are beeing stimulated by hormones, the hormones will have a effect on the cells. Anabolic means (building), therefore, anabolic steroids causes musclegrowth of every muscle which have such hormone receptor. The heart does. The result is hypertrophy.

as far as i know there are 3 types of muscles: skeletal muscle, smooth muscle and cardiac muscle. the heart is built from cardiac muscle and it is involuntary excited(you don't flex your heart or something in order to beat ). the skeletal muscles are valuntarily excited. i think these cells are not the same at all. i might be wrong i don't know...

as far as i know clen can cause some heart problems like aritmia but i don't know for heart hypertrophy. do you know drug that might cause this. i was thinking - eq increases the red blood cells. red blood cells occupy about 40% of the volume of the blood(this is called hematocrit). So does this mean that the total amount of blood will be increased as well? when there is more blood it follows that the heart has to pump more blood, so it has to be stronger. does this mean bigger though? i will have a look at the studies stupidhippo gave sites for instead of talking bs on the board(though i think some of the bs is correct ).

waiting for more input...

[stayinstacked]

First off, slight hypertrophy of the heart has been shown to sometimes be a good thing, SLIGHT that is. This is one of the reasons GH is becoming more and more popular for medical and anti aging reasons, slight enlargement of organs is not a bad thing for everybody. The biggest issue with the heart and guys who abuse steroids is over time it becomes harder and harder for the heart to pump blood, especially during a fairly decent enlargement. A good analogy would be like a person carrying grocery bags up the stairs all the time. Wether it be muscle or not a big guy has extra weight to carry around and needs to pump more blood from his heart throughout his body because well, there is more there. My grandfather had a bad heart, he had a mild heart attack in his late 50's and since had 2 pacemakers put in. But, my grandfather also had a job where he was in sales, so he was on the road alot and living in hotels, eating out alot too. He became fairly heavy into his 50's and 60's and then lost weight and started to eat more healthy until he died at age 84. I exercise regularly and do cardio as well, so despite my family history as far as I know being that of my grandfather, is it an accurate conclusion that I'll have a bad heart? IMO no, lifestyle plays a big part and his lifestyle was different than mine. On the flipside of it all, there was a really good show on HBO I think about steroids and how the media is making them out to be worse than they really are. There was a guy they had on there who was in his 70's and had juiced on and off much of his life, and the guy looked healthy as ever and lifted some impressive poundages for a man that old, and he still used them as well as other anti aging procedures. So I'm just not buying all this hype about heart attacks, where is the proof?

[dianabol]

as far as i know there are 3 types of muscles: skeletal muscle, smooth muscle and cardiac muscle. the heart is built from cardiac muscle and it is involuntary excited(you don't flex your heart or something in order to beat ). the skeletal muscles are valuntarily excited. i think these cells are not the same at all. i might be wrong i don't know...

as far as i know clen can cause some heart problems like aritmia but i don't know for heart hypertrophy. do you know drug that might cause this. i was thinking - eq increases the red blood cells. red blood cells occupy about 40% of the volume of the blood(this is called hematocrit). So does this mean that the total amount of blood will be increased as well? when there is more blood it follows that the heart has to pump more blood, so it has to be stronger. does this mean bigger though? i will have a look at the studies stupidhippo gave sites for instead of talking bs on the board(though i think some of the bs is correct ).

waiting for more input...

Yes sir, you are right about those three types of muscles. but the heart has very much of the same structures like skeltal muscles. The cells in the heart are also orderes in zarcomeres like skeletal muscles. but thats not the reason for hypertrophy, but what I said earlier about receptors and stimulating muscle cells. I could explain you better, but I'm from Norway som my english is not that good.

[stupidhippo]

dianabol.. we know what u are saying but U have to look into the issue in MORE detail... Is there any remodelling of the cardiac muscle? is it more prone to arrythimas than a naturally hypertrophied heart? how is the systolic/diastolic function.... cause Ive seena study where systolic function was impaired more often and severely in AAS using group than a control group (in both groups there were ppl with enlarged hearts). Then also the heart can enlarge in different was, the cardiac wall may thicken (which decreases the pressure of the heart but can also some not good effects..) or the size of the cavities may increase... to the norwegian med student: this question is a lot more complex than just a simple receptor-ligand realtionship...

And about that 70 year old man.. well there are many ppl who are morbidly overweight and eat McD'z everyday but still die in their 90's-- its just that the majority wont live that long.. u have to look at big groups and statistics!!

[Xtralarg]

I would be happy to see 35!

[stupidhippo]

70 would be all I need.. and ppl in my family have gone over 80 with terrrible eating and drinking habits... ofcourse if I eat and live healthy Im gonna die at 40, thats just the way it goes..

[mousetraps]

yeah old people ate whole pigs wortha bacon and put cup of sugar in their coffee and breathed in coal and ate asbestos all back in the day... i think some of us here might be ahead of the game here and there...

[MRRoboto]

My understanding so far has been, that when your on aas, and you allow your cholesterol to remain at high levels, the result is plaqueing of the hearts valves. Eventually the "plaque" build up causes heart attacks or strokes. But I am still researching this very matter. Does anyone ever include chloresterol control in their cycles?

[Tommy Boy]

Lipid panel (Blood work) will reveal everything.
The 4 cholesterols. Do before, after and in the middle of cycle.
Fish oil, CLA, vit.E, policosanol,a low fat diet, and f**king cardio are key.
If your numbers are too high, FIX IT.
After my last cycle and PCT: Total Chol. 108,Trig. 85, LDL 55, HDL 46.
Not bad, for an old man. But no guarantees. An MI can come out of the blue.
So can a drunk driver...
Also monitor BP if you have ANY history. If it's high, FIX IT.
(A bigger problem for us guys is Prostate cancer. Get a PSA every year).

[stupidhippo]

My understanding so far has been, that when your on aas, and you allow your cholesterol to remain at high levels, the result is plaqueing of the hearts valves. Eventually the "plaque" build up causes heart attacks or strokes. But I am still researching this very matter. Does anyone ever include chloresterol control in their cycles?

its the arteries that are affected mainly not so much the valves... but this is only one problem, there are other concerns too as I hav written...

[needle]

Buddy of mine couple of months ago had a slight heart attack in the gym... He just turned 20 recently and has been in the juice game since he was 16 sadly... He was on numerous aas and had been on the cycle for over 6 months... As of now hes almost normal according to his doc except for his over enlarged aorta! Doc said it was due too 6 plus months of the anadrol...

[mousetraps]

6 months plus of anadrol!! thatll make yer teeth bigger even

[needle]

FUNNY GUY

6 months plus of anadrol!! thatll make yer teeth bigger even

[mark956101957]

I think the biggest concern for body builders should be screwing up your cholesterol which can lead to heart problems. High blood pressure will usually settle down once you are off a cycle but should be kept in check but the cholesterol can be terribly affectied due to steroids. With LDL climbing and HDL dropping which equals problems.

Im on hb medication,all my family (father/mother) have some kind of heart problems,but my bp is under control thanks to my medication.When im cycling i check my bp 3 times a week,so far no problems.






LPR....dermatology.

[Ufa]

edit.

[KAEW44]

The problem with the general public is that they see bodybuilders as superior "athletes" when infact many bodybuilders are not athletic at all i know many who cant even run!! The obsession with gaining as much muscle mass on a cycle amost always leads to the "eat alot and dont do cardio" mentality in order to get the most pound gained during cycling, this involves alot of animal fats and not enough moving around which definetly increases cholesterol and affects the heart greatly.

Then to become ripped the easy way is to use stimulants and thermogenics that put your already lazy heart through a rush making it more tired and stressed which also increases the chances of heart problems on the long term.

So sure you can be big and muscular but you could also be on the verge of a heart attack or heart failure. And also there is a genetic factor definetly, my family has a clear unescapable history of high cholesterol!! I have never done a cycle, i eat extra healthy and supplement with fish oils and i do tons of cardio because i compete in sports and my cholesterol is still high!!

I just cant seem to get it down, i've added odorless garlic pills the past month and i have upped the intensity of my cardio and i will see if it helps when i re-test next month or am i will be looking at a heart attack or stroke soon myslef!!

[MuscleScience]

Good thread, Lots of people here no thier stuff.

[MuscleScience]

Good thread, Lots of people here know thier stuff. I actually get to work cardiac rehab. I got to help with a stress test on a guy that had a MI at 32 and was an elite endurance athelete. Long story short his heart got really bad and he had a transplant. So we ran a stress test on him six months out, it was a pretty cool experiance.

[KAEW44]

What is MI??

[MuscleScience]

What is MI??

Myocardial Infarction, its a heart attack.

[roodogg]

my total cholesterol was 180 pre cycle and 203 post cycle my ldl went from 120 to 135. the normal range should be from 0-99. I was told by the doc to start diet and exercise right away! I agree that cholesterol is one of the most important health aspects that needs to be monitored. I am going to try and lower my ldl to about 100-110 before my next cycle. I dont want a heart attack any time soon

[Ufa]

edit

[stupidhippo]

Good thread, Lots of people here know thier stuff. I actually get to work cardiac rehab. I got to help with a stress test on a guy that had a MI at 32 and was an elite endurance athelete. Long story short his heart got really bad and he had a transplant. So we ran a stress test on him six months out, it was a pretty cool experiance.

was there any specualtion why? I mean he was an endurance athlete so his heart could have been enlarged a bit by the training itself.. and maybe if he has other reasons behind it was enough to be partially responsible.. the bigger the heart muscle is the more it needs oxygen and also the eletric circuits that control its rhytm can be compromised also...

[bigacct]

my total cholesterol was 180 pre cycle and 203 post cycle my ldl went from 120 to 135. the normal range should be from 0-99. I was told by the doc to start diet and exercise right away! I agree that cholesterol is one of the most important health aspects that needs to be monitored. I am going to try and lower my ldl to about 100-110 before my next cycle. I dont want a heart attack any time soon

A month after my last Tour De France , my blood test revealed that my total cholesterol was 126. Hdl 36, Ldl 90. My doctor said I should do more aerobic activity and to bring my Hdl above 40. He said niacin and occasionally drinking a glass of wine would also help raise my Hdl.

Remember, it's not just the Ldl you have to worry about. I read in one of the bodybuilding mags that said when Mike Matarazzo had his quadruple bypass, his Hdl was 0...

[roodogg]

My cholesterol last month was 248; I started Vytorin now cholesterol
is 132.

once they get your levels down can you stop taking meds or will cholesterol jump again?

[olederndirt]

once they get your levels down can you stop taking meds or will cholesterol jump again?

It will go back up again. Lifting and cardio will raise hdl. Diet will lower ldl. Amounts and causes of cholesterol problems vary individually. They do have tests to check hdl to see if your particle size is genetic or not. So there are variations even in the ability of your hdl to remove ldl.

[Schmidty]

I had my a heart attack at 17.I had HBP to begin with, then a cocktail of drugs in the mix.