can i leave deca out?

**fighter0728** · 12-04-2006, 07:37 PM

I have done three previous cycles a few years ago. I used sust 250, 500mg week, and unfortunately I am drawing a blank on how much deca I used but I think it may have been 500mg a week to. This was my first cycle. The second I stepped the sust up to 750 mg a week, and left the deca the same for the second. The third was just four weeks of dbol 25mg a day. My question is if I choose to not use deca in my new cycle I am planning will it really make all that much difference? I am going for mass here. I really didn't like one of the sides of deca so I didn't really want to use it again. Heres what im planning.

10 weeks

week 1-4
25mg of dbol a day
500mg of sust

Week 5-10
500mg of sust

and of course post therapy with chlomid and nolva

I am currently 6'3" 205lbs. low body fat
23 years old. I know i was too young to use in the last cycles, not interested in getting any comments about that

Thanks for the help

**ecivon** · 12-04-2006, 08:05 PM

If you're going for mass there isn't much here to get you any great gains. It's okay to leave out the deca , but should consider eq, or tren and extend the cycle to at least 12 weeks. Dbol is okay to jump start but would look at var last 4 weeks of 12 week cycle.

**fighter0728** · 12-04-2006, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by ecivon

If you're going for mass there isn't much here to get you any great gains. It's okay to leave out the deca, but should consider eq, or tren and extend the cycle to at least 12 weeks. Dbol is okay to jump start but would look at var last 4 weeks of 12 week cycle.

Thanks thats exactly what i was looking for. Couple of questions. I feel kind of studid asking this but my research said that anavar is fairly week. Does this help in keeping the gains? Not sure what the purpose of adding it would be. Also I am kind of supprised to hear that this is not a good bulking cycle. I did my research and this looked good. Do you have any other tips to improve the bulking ability of this cycle?

**pumpd4lif** · 12-04-2006, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by ecivon

If you're going for mass there isn't much here to get you any great gains. It's okay to leave out the deca, but should consider eq, or tren and extend the cycle to at least 12 weeks. Dbol is okay to jump start but would look at var last 4 weeks of 12 week cycle.

eq ? he is going for mass explain plss

**pumpd4lif** · 12-04-2006, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by fighter0728

Thanks thats exactly what i was looking for. Couple of questions. I feel kind of studid asking this but my research said that anavar is fairly week. Does this help in keeping the gains? Not sure what the purpose of adding it would be. Also I am kind of supprised to hear that this is not a good bulking cycle. I did my research and this looked good. Do you have any other tips to improve the bulking ability of this cycle?

var is a aas why would u want to use another aas after pct ?that defeats the purpose of pct
the only thing that is gonna help u keep ur gaines is a strict diet and dedication

**cfiler** · 12-04-2006, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by fighter0728

I have done three previous cycles a few years ago. I used sust 250, 500mg week, and unfortunately I am drawing a blank on how much deca I used but I think it may have been 500mg a week to. This was my first cycle. The second I stepped the sust up to 750 mg a week, and left the deca the same for the second. The third was just four weeks of dbol 25mg a day. My question is if I choose to not use deca in my new cycle I am planning will it really make all that much difference? I am going for mass here. I really didn't like one of the sides of deca so I didn't really want to use it again. Heres what im planning.

10 weeks

week 1-4
25mg of dbol a day
500mg of sust

Week 5-10
500mg of sust

and of course post therapy with chlomid and nolva

I am currently 6'3" 205lbs. low body fat
23 years old. I know i was too young to use in the last cycles, not interested in getting any comments about that

Thanks for the help

Cycle looks fine to me.

**GHO5T** · 12-04-2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by fighter0728

I have done three previous cycles a few years ago. I used sust 250, 500mg week, and unfortunately I am drawing a blank on how much deca I used but I think it may have been 500mg a week to. This was my first cycle. The second I stepped the sust up to 750 mg a week, and left the deca the same for the second. The third was just four weeks of dbol 25mg a day. My question is if I choose to not use deca in my new cycle I am planning will it really make all that much difference? I am going for mass here. I really didn't like one of the sides of deca so I didn't really want to use it again. Heres what im planning.

10 weeks

week 1-4
25mg of dbol a day
500mg of sust

Week 5-10
500mg of sust

and of course post therapy with chlomid and nolva

I am currently 6'3" 205lbs. low body fat
23 years old. I know i was too young to use in the last cycles, not interested in getting any comments about that

Thanks for the help

might want to up the dbol dosage to say 40mg/ed and extend cycle to at least 12 weeks

**fighter0728** · 12-04-2006, 08:38 PM

allright. thanks for all the advice guys. definetly a little conflicting but sounds like i will be ok on gains without the deca . i'll just consider upping the dbol and make it 12 weeks. probly just leave the rest as it is.

**Johny-too-small** · 12-04-2006, 08:48 PM

JMO, but at 6'3 and 205lbs, your diet looks a little light. Your best bulker right now might be a full grocery cart.

Good luck with your cycle, bro.

**fighter0728** · 12-04-2006, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

JMO, but at 6'3 and 205lbs, your diet looks a little light. Your best bulker right now might be a full grocery cart.

Good luck with your cycle, bro.

yeah, the decision to bulk back up instead of just mainting tone is a fairly recent one. However since deciding to get some bulk back i have made a lot of changes to kind and quantity of food. Thanks for the advice though.

**body_by_donuts** · 12-04-2006, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by pumpd4lif

eq ? he is going for mass explain plss

Increased appetite

**taiboxa** · 12-04-2006, 09:46 PM

i didnt read any responses, too lazy, but deca is WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN TEST for anabolism and overall muscle growth so YES LOL u will see a HUGE DIFFERENCE. test is rather lame when it comes to LBM growth and is more effective as a libido ctrl and Boner supplier.

if i was to pick one or the other test only or deca only i would go deca LOL i can go 12 wks w/ POSSIBLE ED but the gains are 3x that of test alone so YEAH i rather have more LBM than more SEX

**fighter0728** · 12-05-2006, 01:01 AM

[QUOTE=taiboxa]i didnt read any responses, too lazy, but deca is WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN TEST for anabolism and overall muscle growth so YES LOL u will see a HUGE DIFFERENCE. test is rather lame when it comes to LBM growth and is more effective as a libido ctrl and Boner supplier.

if i was to pick one or the other test only or deca only i would go deca LOL i can go 12 wks w/ POSSIBLE ED but the gains are 3x that of test alone so YEAH i rather have more LBM than more SEX[/QUOT

im not sure what it is about deca that causes this libido problem, but last time i used it i followed the cycle up with a pretty heavy supply of chlomid as well as tribulus to get my natural test levels back up. however this didn't help like i thought it would. any suggestion as to what would be more effective in combating this problem?

**IBdmfkr** · 12-05-2006, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

JMO, but at 6'3 and 205lbs, your diet looks a little light. Your best bulker right now might be a full grocery cart.

Good luck with your cycle, bro.

EXACTLY, the drugs don't make the person bulk or lean it's the diet and the training.

What's with all the misinformation on these boards?

**taiboxa** · 12-05-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

EXACTLY, the drugs don't make the person bulk or lean it's the diet and the training.

What's with all the misinformation on these boards?

BUT THEY SURE DO HELP~!~~

ha

**OldUncle** · 12-05-2006, 12:43 PM

Test + Deca is the mass building combo of choice, IMO. I gained 35 pounds in 12 weeks on 750 TE and 600 Deca last summer, and had to stop my planned 16-week cycle early because I was gaining too much meat to make weight for a fall event. Maybe my 40th cycle, so none of this 'it only works like that on rookies' stuff, please. Deca's better for strength than T, IME, which has an effect on mass - more lifting volume and intensity + food = better gains.

The only downsides to Deca is the post-cycle zits and limp noodle (unless you are subject to drug tests). PCT that works for a long high-dose deca cycle doesn't really exist. You can get some relief, but full recovery takes a while. Best trick is to stop the deca at least 4 weeks before you stop the T, but you have to get your head around a longer than normal cycle to do this.

So, sure, you can omit the deca. But you'll make better gains if you use it.

**IBdmfkr** · 12-05-2006, 12:58 PM

You gained 35lbs in 12wks? lmao.. were you eating Whataburger everyday?

**taiboxa** · 12-05-2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

You gained 35lbs in 12wks? lmao.. were you eating Whataburger everyday?

i have gained that much before

TACO bell = IMMEDIATE 15lbs of WATER RETENTINO!

**OldUncle** · 12-05-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

You gained 35lbs in 12wks? lmao.. were you eating Whataburger everyday?

Not kidding, logged the whole thing elsewhere, and generally can gain at least 25+ pounds on a hard training and hard eating cycle. Percentages matter, though - started at 275. Big difference between me gaining a poound and a guy I outweight by 100 pounds doing the same thing. Some of it (maybe 10#) is water, and most important: I'm a lifter, not a bodybuilder. I don't care at all what I look like, just how much I can dunk, bench, and pull. So, 8,000 Calories a day + heavy and high volume lifting 4 days a week + TE and Deca (and anavar at the beginning and halo at the end) definitely = 35 pound gain.