giving blood

[Haro3]

You can have the last word, you are book worm that has not offerred
any alternative. I've had many CBC planels. I don't care what determines
what I put in a test tube. You offer no alternatives to reduce RBC.

GO back to lyfao!

makes pretty good sense to me....i do believe you may have been.......

[saturn08]

not trying to start anything here, but why do people have a problem with "book worms"? Because they take the time learn the details and functions of something specific? Beyond me. Its the book worms that make AS in the first place. Not bodybuilders.
I mean, am I wrong?
We talk about esters, upregulators, receptors, blah blah and all that shit, but we dont have the slightest clue about what they really are. I mean really, can you tell me the physics mechanisms that bind the molecules that make up these compounds? Maybe two or three people on this board can b/c they have backgrounds in chemistry or biology.
We have a general understanding. Yes, but not very many of us have taken college level chemistry or biology or biochem, genetics, qauntitative bio chem, all that. I take offense when people say "book worm". As if reading and researching something is a bad thing. I am am almost finished with a double major in Finance and Mathematics with a minor in Economics. I am a book worm, sure, but I will also be making alot of money when I get out of school, because what I know is valuable, and takes precidence over experience.
Believe me, I have several friends that I can think of right now that are pursuing graduate degrees in biology and/or chemistry, chemical engineering, and the list goes on. One of my best friends is a double major in biology and chemistry, and believe me we have only a very, very...........very simple understanding of the mechanisms in which these drugs work. So please refrain from the name calling.
When I see Dorian Yates of Jay Cutler in a lab coat engineering something in a test tube, it might be different, but that wont be anytime soon.

[ascendant]

I agree w/ you about some things.
They don't test blood for steroids , and i agree that it will eventually help someone out who really needs it.

It's only going to lower your BP by reducing the overall blood volume in your system. The reason that your bp is up will not be affected, meaning in the day or two it takes to regenerate the pints of blood you donate your bp will be elevated again like it it was.
So giving blood in order to reduce your bp is idiotic. It's just not smart.

first of all don't know where you got a day or two, but that's not what i've heard from any other source and not what i've personally experienced, as i've had it lower my bp for up to 3-5weeks at times. how do you justify that you're required to wait at least 12 weeks before donating again?

additionally, as far as it not affecting your bp, there's something you're not taking into account here... bp can potentially be raised from a cycle increasing blood volume. now, if you come off that cycle, it takes quite some time before your blood volume lowers back to normal. donating blood is an easy way to accelerate that process as without the cycle, your body will not attempt to bring you back up to that volume again.

You won't feel better after lowering your crit level. That makes no logical sense. unless of course your hemoglobin is nearing 20 or higher. And even then you wouldn't feel better physically, you'd just TEMPORARLY lower your crit level.

apparently you've never donated blood during a cycle. when your rbc is high, you feel like crap, and a cycle usually tends to bring your rbc up. it can make you feel tired, run down, etc. donating blood makes you feel better within a day or two. i don't care what the reason is, but obviously you're looking in the wrong places for justification behind it, cause i tell you from personal experience as i'm sure many others can it does help and for at least a couple weeks. even though your rbc may go back up after a few weeks, it's unquestionably better to at least help it for a little while rather than just leaving it too high.

You also say it's great for your system to donate your blood ( like an oil change)
That has no relevance in making you feel any better considering the life of a red blood cell is 90 days, thus your body is producing new RBC's everyday.
You don't need to change out your blood, thats absolutely ludicrous.

tell that to every single doctor i've talked to, cause they'll say you're wrong. i don't know a whole hell of a lot about how it all works, but any doctor i've ever asked about it (probably 4 or 5 as i always like to get second opinions on things like this) has always told me it's good to donate blood because of what i mentioned in my original post.

[ascendant]

Someones BMI or percentage of body fat doesn't determine the quality of their blood.
You're saying that you would rather go w the asthetically better looking individual then one who might have 20% body fat. That is a very ignorant statement.
And yes i would rather get a pint of blood from ANYONE that the Red Cross deems worthy to donate other then someone who injects themselves w/ anabolics or anything for that matter.

you apparently didn't read through that entire post. the issue isn't the persons bodyfat, it's the crap they eat that causes the excess bodyfat. i'm talking MSG, hydrogenated oils, processed/fast foods, let alone alcohol, cigarettes, or whatever other bad habits they have. that stuff is pumping through their blood everyday.

additionally, ask any bodybuilder who goes into a clinic. they drool over our blood. they tell us how healthy our blood is or whatever term they choose to use at the time to indicate our blood is of high quality. it's not an ignorant statement, it's an ignorant reader of my statements that's too determined to be right to face the truth. you obviously have very little to no knowledge about AAS, are obviously against there use, and probably buy in to the steriotypical criticism AAS receives.

[ascendant]

not trying to start anything here, but why do people have a problem with "book worms"? Because they take the time learn the details and functions of something specific? Beyond me. Its the book worms that make AS in the first place. Not bodybuilders.
I mean, am I wrong?
We talk about esters, upregulators, receptors, blah blah and all that shit, but we dont have the slightest clue about what they really are. I mean really, can you tell me the physics mechanisms that bind the molecules that make up these compounds? Maybe two or three people on this board can b/c they have backgrounds in chemistry or biology.
We have a general understanding. Yes, but not very many of us have taken college level chemistry or biology or biochem, genetics, qauntitative bio chem, all that. I take offense when people say "book worm". As if reading and researching something is a bad thing. I am am almost finished with a double major in Finance and Mathematics with a minor in Economics. I am a book worm, sure, but I will also be making alot of money when I get out of school, because what I know is valuable, and takes precidence over experience.
Believe me, I have several friends that I can think of right now that are pursuing graduate degrees in biology and/or chemistry, chemical engineering, and the list goes on. One of my best friends is a double major in biology and chemistry, and believe me we have only a very, very...........very simple understanding of the mechanisms in which these drugs work. So please refrain from the name calling.
When I see Dorian Yates of Jay Cutler in a lab coat engineering something in a test tube, it might be different, but that wont be anytime soon.

yea man, everyones getting way too worked up over this stuff. you made quite a few good points in your post as well. guys, just rub one off and relax. keep the disputes civil.

[Lynn]

I actually asked the red cross if they wanted my blood, i have type O, and told them I had been injecting steroids . They asked a few questions about needle use to make sure i had been injecting in a clean and safe way. Then said, yes we would like your blood. Just my experience, as said above, why donate if they don't want it, but they did want it. Perhaps because i'm type O.

[saturn08]

yea man, everyones getting way too worked up over this stuff. you made quite a few good points in your post as well. guys, just rub one off and relax. keep the disputes civil.

True.

[Mealticket]

first of all don't know where you got a day or two, but that's not what i've heard from any other source and not what i've personally experienced, as i've had it lower my bp for up to 3-5weeks at times. how do you justify that you're required to wait at least 12 weeks before donating again?

additionally, as far as it not affecting your bp, there's something you're not taking into account here... bp can potentially be raised from a cycle increasing blood volume. now, if you come off that cycle, it takes quite some time before your blood volume lowers back to normal. donating blood is an easy way to accelerate that process as without the cycle, your body will not attempt to bring you back up to that volume again.



apparently you've never donated blood during a cycle. when your rbc is high, you feel like crap, and a cycle usually tends to bring your rbc up. it can make you feel tired, run down, etc. donating blood makes you feel better within a day or two. i don't care what the reason is, but obviously you're looking in the wrong places for justification behind it, cause i tell you from personal experience as i'm sure many others can it does help and for at least a couple weeks. even though your rbc may go back up after a few weeks, it's unquestionably better to at least help it for a little while rather than just leaving it too high.



tell that to every single doctor i've talked to, cause they'll say you're wrong. i don't know a whole hell of a lot about how it all works, but any doctor i've ever asked about it (probably 4 or 5 as i always like to get second opinions on things like this) has always told me it's good to donate blood because of what i mentioned in my original post.

You can't argue w/ignorance so say what you will.

...all this info coming from a guy who says"it's like getting an oil change", it's good for you to cycle your blood out"...
But just so you know. It's 56 days minimum between donations not 12 weeks and AS won't raise your blood volume and since i need to use lamens terms that means you won't generate an extra 2 pints of blood while on cycle, but it will however raise the concentraition of RBC in your system.
And yes giving blood might make you feel better if your crit level is over 55 or aproaching 60 like i allready said. I'd love to see your test results. Post um up Tiger!!

[Mealticket]

hey i got an idea to increase athletic performance!!!!

How bout we all go give a pint of blood!!!
This will decrease our overall blood volume by about 10%.
W/ out all those extra red blood cells in our sytem to shuttle nutrients, glycogen and oh ya; OXYGEN to all the cells in our system while working out i can't fathem how that wouldn't make me perfrom better athletically.
Be sure to do it while on cycle also!!!! Because then you'll really tax your body and push it even harder unnecessarily,maybe even you'll push your body hard enough to make your imune system crash; don't know bout you but i love getting sick, then you'll really get some good gains!!

Point is. Any seasoned athlete won't push his/her body unnecessary for any reason. Giving blood on cycle is asking your body to work extra overtime; as if it's not working hard enough. Why would you want to tax your body unnecessary? You wouldn't

[squat_epcot]

so can anyone answer my question. I love the discussion but really want to know how long it would take to from my bp to go down at the end of a cycle and also will lowering the dosage lower the bp too? My bp is really really high

[Mealticket]

educated guess here.
Depends on what kind of esters you are on. If you're on a long acting one like enathate then i would think about 2-3 weeks about your last injection you would see a decrease.
Regardless of why your pressure is up, you can go to the DR, not mention the steroids and get put on some meds that will have no ill effects while you're on cycle.
i wouldn't sweat it too much unless your pushing over 150/90...and if it is then it's up to you to weigh the risk/benefit ratio of using anabolics.

[ascendant]

You can't argue w/ignorance so say what you will.

...all this info coming from a guy who says"it's like getting an oil change", it's good for you to cycle your blood out"...
But just so you know. It's 56 days minimum between donations not 12 weeks and AS won't raise your blood volume and since i need to use lamens terms that means you won't generate an extra 2 pints of blood while on cycle, but it will however raise the concentraition of RBC in your system.
And yes giving blood might make you feel better if your crit level is over 55 or aproaching 60 like i allready said. I'd love to see your test results. Post um up Tiger!!

nice attitude wise-ass. we really want someone like you on the boards. i'm done bothering with you, as there's no hope with you and since you're the only one making your ridiculous claims and just doesn't get it, there's no point for me furthering this discussion.

by the way, i have an old donor form that has the 12 weeks on it son. i know you'll never admit you're wrong, but i'll scan the damn image of the form on my comp and post it up here just to prove you wrong.

oh and hey, you talk a lot of trash for someone who's afraid to post an avy of themselves up on here. lets see what kind of results your rationale makes?

[liftergirl]

if what you're injecting did by chance have some bacteria/disease in it, most likely we'd know about it well before donating blood through some kind of symptoms. additionally, you can just as easily get bacteria and disease from food, in cuts/scrapes, and countless other everyday occurences. if you're getting your stuff from a reputable source, you have no more risk of getting a disease or bacteria from it than you do from your everyday activities. hell, by your reasoning people who have sex shouldn't donate blood, cause you might get a STD that you could give to someone else. after all, some STD's do lie dormant initially and even if you only have one partner, if they cheat with someone else and contract an STD, there ya go. unlikely? of course. however, no more unlikely than your "bacteria/disease ridden steroid " statements.

if there were a disease, they'd most likely find it in a test. same with bacteria. they test the blood for safety, so neither of those should be a concern.

all in all, the risks a steroid user takes is far less than the average individual as we eat better and are healthier in general (for the most part). take your average joe, look at his diet, look at his body, look at his bad habits, and tell me you'd honestly rather have blood from them than a bodybuilder who uses steroids. there is absolutely no reason to choose the average person over the average educated steroid user.

Oh Please Just stop--number one: the types of bacteria that you will get from injections has nothing to do with the "reputability" of the sources; it has to do with the fact that you are injecting through the skin, and so the bacteria that are normally on your skin, are injected into your bloodstream. This is COMPLETELY different than the types of infections that you get if you get a "scrape" or a "cut" or anything else you refer to. That's why people who inject medications of any type are more likely to get bacteremic (or...bacteria in your bloodstream). When you donate blood, they ask about "injections" because people who inject drugs of any sort...be that heroin or Test-E are more likely to have bacteremia and other forms of infections that can be spread by needles. And please dont say that if you dont share needles, you are safe...because you still run the risk of putting normal skin bacteria into your bloodstream (which can kill you).

Number two...where in the world did you hear that all of blood donated gets tested for this??? OR that you will feel symptoms?? Neither one are true. The medical community can't afford to test for everything...and to think that lying on a blood donation card b/c you think that people will be "better off" is ridiculous. If you put down that you do injections...they'll still take your blood...so you'll get whatever benefit you think you are getting by donating....but they will toss it out....so the person who's needing the rbc's won't be harmed. And NO, the person is NOT better off getting a person's blood who's used steriods than the "average joe" who may not eat as clean as you do....none of the stuff that the "average joe" does is going to affect the blood they receive. The altered counts or bacteria that can be present from steriods....CAN hurt the patient.

Number three....who told you that lowering a persons' rbc count by donating blood causes your blood pressure to go down? In order to compensate for a lower blood volume (which you accomplish by donating blood), your blood pressure will elevate in order to keep you from going into shock. IF your blood pressure actually goes down after you donate...then you need to see a doctor, because something is wrong. You are making other people believe false information.....so please stop. If a person has high blood pressure, they need to figure out WHY, and may need a low dose anti-hypertensive medication....they DO not need to be giving blood!

Number four....there are people on this board who actually try to help others by giving proper advice...thanks to those who've tried to set this guy straight.....MT and H3....and to those of you who have more questions about this and want to know what is right about it....please ask through this thread, I'll check back on it. As for the guy who asked the original question about needing to lower your blood pressure....there are some low dose medications that won't affect your training that would be helpful; and your doctor can easily prescribe them for you.

Hope this helps....
And yes, I am a physician....Smiles --LG

[liftergirl]

you apparently didn't read through that entire post. the issue isn't the persons bodyfat, it's the crap they eat that causes the excess bodyfat. i'm talking MSG, hydrogenated oils, processed/fast foods, let alone alcohol, cigarettes, or whatever other bad habits they have. that stuff is pumping through their blood everyday.

additionally, ask any bodybuilder who goes into a clinic. they drool over our blood. they tell us how healthy our blood is or whatever term they choose to use at the time to indicate our blood is of high quality. it's not an ignorant statement, it's an ignorant reader of my statements that's too determined to be right to face the truth. you obviously have very little to no knowledge about AAS, are obviously against there use, and probably buy in to the steriotypical criticism AAS receives.

That "crap" does not affect the blood they donate. I don't kwow what clinic you've been going into that makes them "drool" over your blood....because if you are telling them the truth about what you inject....then you are lying. Please stop telling people that they are making ignorant statements until you stop making worse ones yourself. You are spreading false information....and then it takes a LONG time for those people who are trying to figure out the "right" information....and why people who try to post proper information on these boards spend HOURS trying to correct false info from people like yourself.
Please do the new-bies a favor and stop. You are wrong about a lot of stuff....and as someone stated earlier....if you dont have the training in it, you don't understand it on the level that others do. There are some on here who have worked really hard at figuring out the right information ..... and it's pretty impressive. I had the formal training as a Biochem major and in Medical School....so I know what I'm talking about.
--Smiles--LG

[Ufa]

Dr. Beavis and Mr. Butthead. Thread Parrots. Has the good doctor ever
given blood NO! You bp dops. They won't even let you out the door
for 20 min. You are a fool. ACENDANT knows form experience. You know
from nothing you are annother THREAD PARROT! as well as an ignoramus.

You both make my want to puke!

[liftergirl]

nice attitude wise-ass. we really want someone like you on the boards. i'm done bothering with you, as there's no hope with you and since you're the only one making your ridiculous claims and just doesn't get it, there's no point for me furthering this discussion.

by the way, i have an old donor form that has the 12 weeks on it son. i know you'll never admit you're wrong, but i'll scan the damn image of the form on my comp and post it up here just to prove you wrong.

oh and hey, you talk a lot of trash for someone who's afraid to post an avy of themselves up on here. lets see what kind of results your rationale makes?

Here's the from the American Red Cross....it's law that you can only donate every 56 days. http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed.... or here's a direct quote...
"To give blood... you must be healthy, be at least 17 years old or 16 years old if allowed by state law, weigh at least 110 pounds, and not have donated blood in the last 8 weeks (56 days)."
As for people who talk trash ... sir, you've done more trashtalking that has been WRONG than anyone I've seen on here for a long time.

[Ufa]

Here's the weblink to the American Red Cross....it's law that you can only donate every 56 days. http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed. As for people who talk trash ... sir, you've done more trashtalking that has been WRONG than anyone I've seen on here for a long time.

Dr. Beavis is back with more Parrot trash. Everyone knows about the
56 days. There are other ways to drain the OIL. I'm sure in while
you were sleeping in medical school they talked about phlebotomy's.
That would be a donation of blood into a medical waste disposal unit.
You help is worthless.

[Haro3]

Dr. Beavis and Mr. Butthead. Thread Parrots. Has the good doctor ever
given blood NO! You bp dops. They won't even let you out the door
for 20 min. You are a fool. ACENDANT knows form experience. You know
from nothing you are annother THREAD PARROT! as well as an ignoramus.

You both make my want to puke!

nice grammar. solid attempt at literacy.

[Ufa]

nice grammar. solid attempt at literacy.

Thanks!

[liftergirl]

Dr. Beavis and Mr. Butthead. Thread Parrots. Has the good doctor ever
given blood NO! You bp dops. They won't even let you out the door
for 20 min. You are a fool. ACENDANT knows form experience. You know
from nothing you are annother THREAD PARROT! as well as an ignoramus.

You both make my want to puke!

Have I ever given blood....of course... good Gawd. And yes, you feel faint for a bit because you've had an immediate blood loss and your body has to compensate. That compensation is by gradually adapting...and a slightly higher blood pressure. If you are truly healthy, your blood pressure should not even acutally alter that much from donating blood. So, your body has to equilibrate over that 20 min period. Please don't call me a fool... and I am so not a thread parrot.... I don't rely on another person to tell me info that I say on here. Don't be ridiculous. It's from learning from medical textbooks... and I'll explain it in words that anyone can understand.

[ascendant]

Oh Please Just stop--number one: the types of bacteria that you will get from injections has nothing to do with the "reputability" of the sources; it has to do with the fact that you are injecting through the skin, and so the bacteria that are normally on your skin, are injected into your bloodstream. This is COMPLETELY different than the types of infections that you get if you get a "scrape" or a "cut" or anything else you refer to. That's why people who inject medications of any type are more likely to get bacteremic (or...bacteria in your bloodstream). When you donate blood, they ask about "injections" because people who inject drugs of any sort...be that heroin or Test-E are more likely to have bacteremia and other forms of infections that can be spread by needles. And please dont say that if you dont share needles, you are safe...because you still run the risk of putting normal skin bacteria into your bloodstream (which can kill you).

Number two...where in the world did you hear that all of blood donated gets tested for this??? OR that you will feel symptoms?? Neither one are true. The medical community can't afford to test for everything...and to think that lying on a blood donation card b/c you think that people will be "better off" is ridiculous. If you put down that you do injections...they'll still take your blood...so you'll get whatever benefit you think you are getting by donating....but they will toss it out....so the person who's needing the rbc's won't be harmed. And NO, the person is NOT better off getting a person's blood who's used steriods than the "average joe" who may not eat as clean as you do....none of the stuff that the "average joe" does is going to affect the blood they receive. The altered counts or bacteria that can be present from steriods....CAN hurt the patient.

Number three....who told you that lowering a persons' rbc count by donating blood causes your blood pressure to go down? In order to compensate for a lower blood volume (which you accomplish by donating blood), your blood pressure will elevate in order to keep you from going into shock. IF your blood pressure actually goes down after you donate...then you need to see a doctor, because something is wrong. You are making other people believe false information.....so please stop. If a person has high blood pressure, they need to figure out WHY, and may need a low dose anti-hypertensive medication....they DO not need to be giving blood!

Number four....there are people on this board who actually try to help others by giving proper advice...thanks to those who've tried to set this guy straight.....MT and H3....and to those of you who have more questions about this and want to know what is right about it....please ask through this thread, I'll check back on it. As for the guy who asked the original question about needing to lower your blood pressure....there are some low dose medications that won't affect your training that would be helpful; and your doctor can easily prescribe them for you.

Hope this helps....
And yes, I am a physician....Smiles --LG

i know you mean well, as most do when giving advice on here. i'm not going to argue with you, but i can say i personally experience a lowering of bp after donating blood, as do many others, so i guess there's a lot of us with something wrong. maybe our bp goes up initially near the beginning, i don't know. never checked it right after donating. however, i know by the next day, it lowers. albeit only a few points, but it does make some difference, which is better than nothing IMO.

as far as what the "average joe" consumes being safer than what we do, that's a matter of opinion. i strongly believe mine, just as you believe yours. however, i'd find it very hard to believe that the chances of someone having bacteria in their blood from steroids and having no idea (a one in a million chance at best) is worse than all the toxins one would have in their blood from chain-smoking (note most cigarette companies have over 100+ toxins in their cigarettes which WILL be in their bloodstream).

oh and as for the bacteria from steroids, i've been in the personal training industry for about 12 years now, and know well over 50 people personally who use steroids , many for well over 7 or so years. however, i don't know a single person who ever had a bacterial infection from steroids except for a couple people buying from questionable sources. it's not that hard to keep this stuff sanitary and ugl's who know their reputation will be destroyed if even one person gets an infection and posts it on a board they're on would unquestionably take every single necessary precaution to make sure they don't let that happen. just giving you basis behind my previous statements on the matter.

as far as why we'd have high bp, most of us know very well why (at least most the people on here do). it's from the steroids. i don't think pre-hypertensive meds is a solution, as most meds on the market treat one problem but their side-effects are listed in an accompanying bookfull.

look, i mean well just as you do. i'm providing information that i've heard from numerous sources as well as personal experience, therefore i believed it to be true.

i would like to know what your solution would be to someone having high bp cause of a cycle. whether it be cause of an increased rbc or whatever other reason you're going to say it is, what is a safer way than donating blood to lower it??? after all, if you're really here to help, you know very well the solution you might be thinking of (don't take steroids) wouldn't be listened to by any user of them. so by all means, please give us some better advice. i know i'd personally appreciate it, and it would be much more productive than us criticizing each others opinions.

[liftergirl]

Dr. Beavis is back with more Parrot trash. Everyone knows about the
56 days. There are other ways to drain the OIL. I'm sure in while
you were sleeping in medical school they talked about phlebotomy's.
That would be a donation of blood into a medical waste disposal unit.
You help is worthless.

I havent called you names....so stop it with me....especially since nothing i've said on here is simply copied from another person. As for phlebotomys...yes, they are indeed helpful in disease processes where your body is producing excessive amounts of blood...as in having a disorder of your bone marrow. But there are other methods as well....but by all means, they are not used to lower blood pressure....which this guys' original question was about. Would donating blood help if your Crit was 65?
Sure. As for my help being worthless.... that's funny....

[ascendant]

Here's the from the American Red Cross....it's law that you can only donate every 56 days. http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed.... or here's a direct quote...
"To give blood... you must be healthy, be at least 17 years old or 16 years old if allowed by state law, weigh at least 110 pounds, and not have donated blood in the last 8 weeks (56 days)."
As for people who talk trash ... sir, you've done more trashtalking that has been WRONG than anyone I've seen on here for a long time.

and here's a link to a site indicating 12 weeks as i stated... http://www.nkath.org/Blood%20bank_eng.htm. i suppose the length of time differs from place to place. however, the 12 weeks which is listed on this site is the same amount of time that's on the documentation i received after donating blood.

so, now who's wrong? you need to stop being so closed minded.

[ascendant]

I havent called you names....so stop it with me....especially since nothing i've said on here is simply copied from another person. As for phlebotomys...yes, they are indeed helpful in disease processes where your body is producing excessive amounts of blood...as in having a disorder of your bone marrow. But there are other methods as well....but by all means, they are not used to lower blood pressure....which this guys' original question was about. Would donating blood help if your Crit was 65?
Sure. As for my help being worthless.... that's funny....

so now with that bold faced comment above catching my interest, can you tell me what the average steroid cycle brings the average persons crit levels up to?

[Ufa]

12 weeks it is. The Doc is right about the blood pressure. For me and thats only my experience it did reduce blood pressure for about 10 days.
I think that Lotrel helpls me keep my blood pressure at 120/80 or lower.
However, after giving blood I did not have to. It was about 110/ 70 or
lower.

The good Doctor has still not answered the question; HOW CAN WE
GET OUT RED BLOOD CELL COUNT LOWER. no leach talk.

[liftergirl]

i know you mean well, as most do when giving advice on here. i'm not going to argue with you, but i can say i personally experience a lowering of bp after donating blood, as do many others, so i guess there's a lot of us with something wrong. maybe our bp goes up initially near the beginning, i don't know. never checked it right after donating. however, i know by the next day, it lowers. albeit only a few points, but it does make some difference, which is better than nothing IMO.

as far as what the "average joe" consumes being safer than what we do, that's a matter of opinion. i strongly believe mine, just as you believe yours. however, i'd find it very hard to believe that the chances of someone having bacteria in their blood from steroids and having no idea (a one in a million chance at best) is worse than all the toxins one would have in their blood from chain-smoking (note most cigarette companies have over 100+ toxins in their cigarettes which WILL be in their bloodstream).

oh and as for the bacteria from steroids, i've been in the personal training industry for about 12 years now, and know well over 50 people personally who use steroids , many for well over 7 or so years. however, i don't know a single person who ever had a bacterial infection from steroids except for a couple people buying from questionable sources. it's not that hard to keep this stuff sanitary and ugl's who know their reputation will be destroyed if even one person gets an infection and posts it on a board they're on would unquestionably take every single necessary precaution to make sure they don't let that happen. just giving you basis behind my previous statements on the matter.

as far as why we'd have high bp, most of us know very well why (at least most the people on here do). it's from the steroids. i don't think pre-hypertensive meds is a solution, as most meds on the market treat one problem but their side-effects are listed in an accompanying bookfull.

look, i mean well just as you do. i'm providing information that i've heard from numerous sources as well as personal experience, therefore i believed it to be true.

i would like to know what your solution would be to someone having high bp cause of a cycle. whether it be cause of an increased rbc or whatever other reason you're going to say it is, what is a safer way than donating blood to lower it??? after all, if you're really here to help, you know very well the solution you might be thinking of (don't take steroids) wouldn't be listened to by any user of them. so by all means, please give us some better advice. i know i'd personally appreciate it, and it would be much more productive than us criticizing each others opinions.

First of all, thanks for not just calling me names as some others have here in the forum. If your bp is lowered after dontating blood...I'd stop doing it....and the amount that it's lowered is not helping much really. I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-anti-hypertensives"....??? I agree...antihypertensive meds do have their list of side-effects; but, the companies are required to list EVERYTHING that has ever happened due to a person using that medicine.... so many sides are never experienced by patients. Think about it this way...if every UGL provided their consumers with a list of side-effects that were possible with the products...the list would be just as long, if not longer, than any list provided by a drug company. I'm a bit hesitant to provide names of medications that could be helpful....because the one that would be helpful for one person, would not be the one that would help another person.... depends on your kidney function, your normal cardiovascualr health, family history, etc.

As far as why AS cause high blood pressure....I'd blame it more on the hormonal changes than the actual composition of the blood.

There are several types that can help hypertension and not affect your training. But, Anti-hypertensives can be dangerous....but having high blood pressure can be worse. There are some, like beta-blockers that can cause your heartrate to not go over a certain level, which makes training difficult. Others, like certain diuretics (hydrochlorothiazide and lasix), can deplete your body of sodium and potassium respectfully. Others, like ace-inhibitors don't really do either one of these....but still have side-effects.
Bottom line is.... you really need to see your doctor ... there are some that require that you get your liver or kidney function tests checked...or your potassium, or your sodium.

I've discovered that a lot of people on here beleive that a doctor is going to "test" you for steroids in the clinic....we dont do that....it's too expensive and doesnt really matter. Plus , honestly, it's not something that many doctors even think of when it comes to causes of high blood pressure. Regardless, if you go to your doc....show him / her that you have high blood pressure, they are going to give you a medication. Be honest that you are training and are concerned about being able to get your HR up (so, not likely a beta-blocker), and are concerned about sodium and potassium (so, not likely certain types of diuretics). Helpful? Hope so.

[liftergirl]

and here's a link to a site indicating 12 weeks as i stated... http://www.nkath.org/Blood%20bank_eng.htm. i suppose the length of time differs from place to place. however, the 12 weeks which is listed on this site is the same amount of time that's on the documentation i received after donating blood.

so, now who's wrong? you need to stop being so closed minded.

Well, your quote is from Cairo Egypt...I'm talking about American recommendations.

[liftergirl]

12 weeks it is. The Doc is right about the blood pressure. For me and thats only my experience it did reduce blood pressure for about 10 days.
I think that Lotrel helpls me keep my blood pressure at 120/80 or lower.
However, after giving blood I did not have to. It was about 110/ 70 or
lower.

The good Doctor has still not answered the question; HOW CAN WE
GET OUT RED BLOOD CELL COUNT LOWER. no leach talk.

How high is your rbc count??
And...it's still 56 days here in the US. The 12 week quote is from Egypt.

[liftergirl]

so now with that bold faced comment above catching my interest, can you tell me what the average steroid cycle brings the average persons crit levels up to?

what's considered an "average" steroid cycle...???

[ascendant]

Well, your quote is from Cairo Egypt...I'm talking about American recommendations.

the recommendation of 12 weeks i received was from an american hosptial. it's in Florida, so those recommendations are not limited to outside of the US. maybe your recommendation is the more popular one, but it's not the policy of the clinic i use.

[ascendant]

what's considered an "average" steroid cycle...???

lets say for example a common cycle...
400-600mg of Test (Enanthate or Cypionate )
200-300mg of Deca

[Ufa]

How high is your rbc count??
And...it's still 56 days here in the US. The 12 week quote is from Egypt.

My RBC is 5.8 range is 4.0 to 6.0...

Not that high but face is a little flushed.

[Mealticket]

liftergirl laying the smak down.
Good to see you on here again.

[Ufa]

liftergirl laying the smak down.
Good to see you on here again.

Butthead is back. Any words of wisdom. Can you lower
RBC with out leaches?

[Mealticket]

nice attitude wise-ass. we really want someone like you on the boards.

oh and hey, you talk a lot of trash for someone who's afraid to post an avy of themselves up on here. lets see what kind of results your rationale makes?

Here you go princess, those are just under 29"....and since that pic was taken almost 18 months ago i can put up a more impressive one and current where they're just over 30".
And i'm not afriad to post an avatar, i took that one down becasue i got tired of people iming me to ask what my leg routine looked like.


down 24lbs in 6 weeks, pics of my wheels

[Mealticket]

Butthead is back. Any words of wisdom. Can you lower
RBC with out leaches?

yawn!

[Mealticket]

lets say for example a common cycle...
400-600mg of Test (Enanthate or Cypionate )
200-300mg of Deca

now that i hope we're all done riping on eachother. I think it would matter what types of anabolcs u would use. I personally know guys who use EQ for the sole purpose to getting their crit levels elevated. A-bombs are also suppose to raise your crit.
It would also be dependant on your own chemsitry.
First thing i tell people to use when they ask me how to raise their crit or how much EPO to inject every week is, max out your natural crit level by supping w/ IRON tabs.
IRON IRON IRON, that will get your crit up.
Go get a prenatal vitamin and start taking it.
And in your case ascendant, are you taking a multi-vit that has an iron supp in it?. If so i'd quit taking it. Maybe that would help

[liftergirl]

liftergirl laying the smak down.
Good to see you on here again.

Thanks...glad to be back Hope I can continue to help people on here. It's obvious that there are some very intelligent people on here....who've learned it all by themselves...strong work

[Mealticket]

bizzump

[STB]

Whoa...looked like EF broke out on the AR board for a while there...

This is still an excellent discussion, but I want to throw a couple of things out there. I personally would not donate while on cycle - only while off. I wouldn't want to make my body work harder to regenerate cells and I wouldn't want to mess up the recipeint with the gear than may be in my blood, regardless of how diluted it may be.

I also recall reading that the volume of your blood refills itself in about 48 hours. Now it may be fluid, not blood cells regenerating, but the volume flowing through your veins will be the same in a couple of days, so I would imagine BP would not change much, but RBC certainly would.


Bluesman