kidneys and liver streesing or not?

**gottibme** · 01-19-2007, 03:07 AM

since I have been on tren I have doubled the amount of water and organic cranberry juice I take a day also with cranberry pills and a liver supplement of course but anyway is it possible for your liver and kidneys to still stress even though your urine is always clear or just lighly urine color?anyway let me know

**elitetky** · 01-19-2007, 03:44 AM

Get your liver values check ! come on bro it aint much

if you body can tell that your liver its dieing it means ur liver its peramantly damage for sure , i would get a extra liver on hang just in case ^.^

**stupidhippo** · 01-19-2007, 05:44 AM

what do u base that on elite? I mean it makes no sense what so ever...

**KAEW44** · 01-19-2007, 05:54 AM

You could be stressing your liver and kidneys and not even know about it for years, but if some major damage is done then your body will tell you. Thats why its better to be safe and run safety measures even if your body is not giving you signs.
For substances that stress liver use milk thistle or/and Liv-52
For Kidneys cranberry pills/juice and lots of water. Also non-alchoholic beer is very good for cleansing the kidneys.

Like i said your bosy might not give you signs even when yuor stressing it, but for kidneys look out for localized pain or darkened urine, usually more tan/brown color.
And for liver it could also be localized pain and many other symptoms including nausea, yellowing of skin/eyes.

**stupidhippo** · 01-19-2007, 06:09 AM

ur liver might or might not give signs of damage.. also it doesnt tell u if the damage is reversible or not..

u can have serious irreversible liver damage and not know about it and u can have large amounts of liver damage that "the body" tells u but the damage is reversible etc ... etc...

also kidney damage can be so that it gives absolutely no warning signs..

**Manpretty** · 01-19-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

ur liver might or might not give signs of damage.. also it doesnt tell u if the damage is reversible or not..

u can have serious irreversible liver damage and not know about it and u can have large amounts of liver damage that "the body" tells u but the damage is reversible etc ... etc...

also kidney damage can be so that it gives absolutely no warning signs..

kidney damage is usually characterized by black (yes i said black urine) dark urine is usually misinterperted as liver or kidney damage.....ive learned recently that this is not the case...dark urine only tells you the kidneys arent getting enough fluids to excrete the waste in the urine. liver damage is characterized by jandice. however it is noteworthy to say that the liver can fully function on just 10% of it original mass.

like with all thing everyone is different and will respond differently, you need to know your own body. there have been cases of exterme alcoholism where the patients liver values were not raised at all, and im sure there are cases that patients values were elevated from alot less.

**stupidhippo** · 01-19-2007, 10:44 AM

kidneys also have a huge reserve... but with lilver its different cause it can regenerate unless there is fibrosis present.. or the damage is very massive.. some ppl can develop fatal liver cirrhosis during years of alcoholism and theyre liver enzymes have never been alarming.. the enzymes tell u only so much.. they basically indicate cytolysis.. (the leakage of enzymes out of the cells due to destruction of cells)

i still havent found very good info about steroids and kidneys... what damage do AAS do to them etc.. in the case of ilver its more clear.. especially with orals... (but its more clear, how damaging in the long term is more of a question...)

also there are many kinds of kidney damage.. and in many the color of urine wont change at all... dont simplify things too much.. cause with statements such as u made some ppl might think that if theirpiss is normal color their kidneys are fine..

**Manpretty** · 01-19-2007, 09:08 PM

hippo, i know everyone is differnet but how much abuse do you think the average liver and kidneys can withstand?
i your opinion do you seriously have to abuse to casue irreversable damage or could an 8 week stint of orals cause irreversable damage?

**stupidhippo** · 01-20-2007, 12:45 AM

it is a really hard question since the kideys / AAS is somewhat to a mystery (for me atleast).. i havent really found concrete evidence on how do AAS damage kidneys etc.. but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence about tren and kidneys... the liver is more straight forward... IMO u can do orals for 8 weeks especially if u do BW in the middle and if the results are decent. i mean ppl have done huge amounts of orals for long periods and most have had no problem.. there are some reports about cholestasis and other forms of liver damage but havent seen any reports about permament liver damage (could be wrong cause havent looked into it so much)...

**Manpretty** · 01-20-2007, 05:49 AM

yeah i have been looking for the same kind of research about kidneys/ liver permanent damage and not found anything that says a healthly system cant deal with long duration of oral use/abuse whatever you wanna call it and by long i mean 12-15 weeks

im not saying that you shouldnt be careful but i think its a lower risk of damage than most would tell you. also i think there are a limited amout of people that could provide insight on the topic

**longhorn814** · 01-20-2007, 09:17 AM

youre not gonna find much research on the effects of steroids on liver or kidneys. IMO and my others, you will need to do a large amount of orals for a long period (years) of time to cause serious damage to your body. Your liver is quite resileint and is designed to flush out toxins. What you should be more concerned about is how negatively oral steroids affect your lipid profile. They destroy you HDL values, which is a pre cursor to heart disease. Typically the values return to normal once you stop, but if you stayed on for a long time, you could start to build up a lot of blockage in your arteries

**Manpretty** · 01-20-2007, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

youre not gonna find much research on the effects of steroids on liver or kidneys. IMO and my others, you will need to do a large amount of orals for a long period (years) of time to cause serious damage to your body. Your liver is quite resileint and is designed to flush out toxins. What you should be more concerned about is how negatively oral steroids affect your lipid profile. They destroy you HDL values, which is a pre cursor to heart disease. Typically the values return to normal once you stop, but if you stayed on for a long time, you could start to build up a lot of blockage in your arteries

nice info
ive been thinking this just nothing to it backup, well i guess there still isnt anything to back it up, just another members similar opinion.
there are alot of accepted theories about oral use on this board and other boards that i challenge. most other members dont like to be challenged on long standing theories however i have trouble finding research as the basis for either arguement.

**fLgAtOr** · 01-20-2007, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by gottibme

since I have been on tren I have doubled the amount of water and organic cranberry juice I take a day also with cranberry pills and a liver supplement of course but anyway is it possible for your liver and kidneys to still stress even though your urine is always clear or just lighly urine color?anyway let me know

You're probably fine...If you really are concerned, go get a bloodtest.

**Microbrew** · 01-24-2007, 04:27 PM

I've taken TrenE twice and both times my bilirubin was 2.0 and 1.8 both times, shouldnt be over 1.2. My GFR test which is for kidney's is 52 and shouldn't be under 60, this is the test I'm most concern about. Because I've been reading up on this and if your GFR comes back under 60 3 months in a row , then they label you as having Cronic Kidney Disease. So I think I'm going to stay from tren for now on.

Micro

**Super Intense** · 08-02-2007, 11:37 PM

tren screwed me up bad. I had to be hospitalized.

**got fina?** · 08-03-2007, 12:14 AM

Ive read before that they call kidney problems the silent killer because in alot of cases u dont feel nothing uintil some reall damage has occured.
There are alot of things that could damage the kidneys like high BP.
A freind of mine fuked them up from high BP and now has lumps the size of baseballs in his arm from the dialis machine.
See the doc bro dont risk it. If its cool on paper, then your good to go...