Frontloading explained-

[Idunno]

My advice would be to fronload then inject everyday. This was posted on another board. All good information:Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.

and so on.
^^That BTW, IS why you frontload.
I used this web calc for these figures.

http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/[/I]

Thanks for the info. I used this method in writing up what I hope will be something like my first cycle. I posted it in the forum under "first cycle and PCT ???" check it out if you would andlet me know what you think. I combined it with info from the "first cycles" thread that is stickied...

[auslifta]

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
__________________


Enthanate Clearance 500 mg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you still start PCT 14 days after last injection?which would be day 71
great thread BTW

[yngnastyman]

can anyone confirm that its advisable to frontload deca ?

[Killzone]

Bump

[Johny-too-small]

can anyone confirm that its advisable to frontload deca?

Yes, read the whole thread.

[yngnastyman]

i diddnt quite understand...so for 200mg deca u frontload with 800mg?

[auslifta]

would it be better to start PCT 14 days after last injection or earlier??

[marcus300]

would it be better to start PCT 14 days after last injection or earlier??

Start pct as normal

[helium3]

i diddnt quite understand...so for 200mg deca u frontload with 800mg?

i wouldnt run it that low,but it works the same way.for example my next cycle will include deca @600mg per week,so the first week i will frontload 1200mg(alot of oil to be sure).this will achieve stable levels much quicker than normal and can lead to excelerated gains and a shorter cycle.

[luckylou]

I'am on my 3rd week of Test E Iran.

250mgs on Monday & 250 mgs on thursdays. 500 total for the week.

Are you saying i can bump that up to 500mgs on mondays & 500 mgs on Thurdays and cut my cycle down from 12 weeks?

[Growingpains]

As a point of note, you aren't "saturating the receptors" but rather just getting a higher blood plasma level sooner. Just a technical flaw in your explanation. The reason for this is that there is ample evidence that by taking AAS, you increase the number of receptors, so you can never actually saturate them, by definition.

In addition to this, it is not so much that receptors get "saturated" but rather, catabolic systems (cortisol, estrogen, progesterone, etc) start fighting back to get the body into homeostasis. That's when the gains slow down. OR just add more gear (JOKE!)

[finny]

I'am on my 3rd week of Test E Iran.

250mgs on Monday & 250 mgs on thursdays. 500 total for the week.

Are you saying i can bump that up to 500mgs on mondays & 500 mgs on Thurdays and cut my cycle down from 12 weeks?

That's what you would do in the first week, bump to 500 on both days. I'm not sure if there is any benefit at this point - 3 weeks in.

[marcus300]

I'am on my 3rd week of Test E Iran.

250mgs on Monday & 250 mgs on thursdays. 500 total for the week.

Are you saying i can bump that up to 500mgs on mondays & 500 mgs on Thurdays and cut my cycle down from 12 weeks?

If you was going to front load the cycle this needs to be done at the start of the cycle and not on week 4.

[Marty_4]

So is me taking 1000 mg of test e a week say 250 every 2 days a decent fron loading. I tell ay waht if this site wasn't about a lot of people would be in serious trouble. Thanks guys

[marcus300]

So is me taking 1000 mg of test e a week say 250 every 2 days a decent fron loading. I tell ay waht if this site wasn't about a lot of people would be in serious trouble. Thanks guys

Double the required dose up to the first half life, that wil be a decent front load.

[Lejes]

Hey Marcus, why do you recommend doubling up to the first half life, as opposed to taking a giant initial dose and just maintaining blood levels from that point?

[marcus300]

Hey Marcus, why do you recommend doubling up to the first half life, as opposed to taking a giant initial dose and just maintaining blood levels from that point?

On the charts taking one giant dose does get the blood levels up quicker and it looks alot better but in reality and experience ive seen far better results when the dose of each injection is doubled up to the first half life.

Suppose bb's have to try both ways and see which one produce's the better gains. IMHO i know which one I recommend.

[Lejes]

Thanks for clearing that up Marcus, I was originally going to do the giant initial dose for my next cycle here in a week, I rechecked with that roid calculator thing again and I only have to double the dose for five days to reach the key half life. Since I'm planning on an ed schedule there really isn't any convenience issue with the switch. I'll do it your way instead, thanks!

[lacey231]

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons..

I thought test Ethanate had a 10 day half life?
http://www.british-bodybuilding.co.uk/Half_Life.shtml

[Lejes]

I thought test Ethanate had a 10 day half life?
http://www.british-bodybuilding.co.uk/Half_Life.shtml

Read his entire post >>>

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PubMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

[Lejes]

I decided to look myself and found only two studies on pubmed.

Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of testosterone enanthate and dihydrotestosterone enanthate in non-human primates.
Institute of Reproductive Medicine, The University, Munster, FRG.

The pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of testosterone enanthate and dihydrotestosterone-enanthate were compared in orchidectomized cynomolgus monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) and in intact GnRH agonist-suppressed rhesus monkeys (Macaca mulatta). Following a single im injection of 32.8 mg testosterone enanthate or 32.7 mg dihydrotestosterone-enanthate, i.e. 23.6 mg of pure steroid , in the orchidectomized cynomolgus monkeys, serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone levels rose to 400 and 800% of baseline, respectively, within 24 h. Androgen levels remained in that range for 3-5 days followed by a continuous decline until baseline values were attained after 4-5 weeks. The areas under the testosterone- and dihydrotestosterone-curves did not differ significantly 2290 +/- 340 (dihydrotestosterone-enanthate) vs 2920 +/- 485 (testosterone-enanthate) suggesting that similar amounts of steroid had been released from the respective ester preparation. Mean half-life estimates of the terminal elimination phase were 4 and 7 days for testosterone-enanthate and dihydrotestosterone-enanthate, respectively. In a second experiment rhesus monkeys received, at 4-weekly intervals, sc implantation of a biodegradable polylacticolyglycolide rod loaded with the GnRH agonist buserelin. The last injection was given during week 20. GnRH agonist treatment suppressed serum bioactive LH, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone levels, testicular size, sperm production, and seminal carnitine content. The ejaculatory response to electrostimulation and the masturbatory behaviour were abolished. Testosterone or dihydrotestosterone injections at the same doses as above were given in week 10, 14, 17 and 20 of GnRH agonist treatment. Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone levels were stimulated 9- and 4-fold, respectively. Mean half-life estimates for testosterone-enanthate and dihydrotestosterone were 5 and 7 days, respectively. Both ester preparations completely restored the ejaculatory response, ejaculate size, masturbatory behaviour, and seminal carnitine levels. In conclusion, androgen substitution with dihydrotestosterone-enanthate, in equivalent doses, is as effective as testosterone-enanthate in restoring reproductive functions in hypogonadal monkeys.

PMID: 2333732 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I'm not sure if this one is has any merit, but I might as well post it too:

Release and elimination of 14C-fluphenazine enanthate and decanoate esters administered in sesame oil to dogs.

The rates of release of 14C-fluphenazine enanthate and 14C-fluphenazine decanoate were compared in two groups of five male dogs. Each dog was given a single dose (2 mg/kg im) of either the enanthate or decanoate ester in sesame oil. The times required to attain maximum concentrations of radioactivity in plasma were 3.8 +/- 0.5 days (+/-SE) for the enanthate ester and 10.6 +/- 1.1 days for the decanoate ester (p less than 0.001); maximum concentrations of radioactivity in the plasma at these times were 16.7 +/- 1.1 and 11.1 +/- 1.2 ng/ml, respectively (p less than 0.01). However, 35 days after dosing, the concentrations of radioactivity in plasma were greater for the decanoate ester than for the enanthate ester. The times required for 50% of the dose to be excreted in the urine and feces were 7.8 +/- 0.5 days for the enanthate ester and 22.6 +/- 4.4 days for the decanoate ester (p less than 0.05). The total amounts excreted in 35 days were 85.4 +/- 1.8 and 68.8 +/- 6.6% of the dose for the enanthate and decanoate esters, respectively; the average half-times for the rates of release of radioactivity from ***ot and body, as calculated from the data for total excretion, were 5.55 days for the enanthate ester and 15.4 days for the decanoate ester. Thirty-five days after dosing, the amount of the dose present in the injection site was 4.6 +/- 1.6% for the enanthate ester and 18.6 +/- 5.7% for the decanoate ester. Two groups of six dogs each were protected against the emetic effects of apomorphine more than twice as long by the decanoate ester than by the enanthate ester after the subcutaneous administration of single 8-mg/kg doses of either drug in sesame oil (p less than 0.05). Based on measurements of total radioactivity, it was concluded that the decanoate ester was released from the ***ot at less than one-half the rate of the enanthate ester.

PMID: 1271246 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[ProteinFart]

I know there's a difference between "Frontloading" and "Kickstarting". My question is, Can I do both? My next cycle consists of Test e with a dbol kickstart. If I tried to do both, would my sides be out of control? Or is it advisable to kickstart with some dbol AS WELL as frontload my test?

Thanx!
PF

[taiboxa]

I know there's a difference between "Frontloading" and "Kickstarting". My question is, Can I do both? My next cycle consists of Test e with a dbol kickstart. If I tried to do both, would my sides be out of control? Or is it advisable to kickstart with some dbol AS WELL as frontload my test?

Thanx!
PF

yeah u can do both, but you really should start your OWN thread next time.

[athlete20]

great thread man. lots of info for me and others about frontloading.

[millionairemurph]

great thread, answered alot of my questions about weather or not to frontload (who wont now?). Thanks big time!!

[athlete20]

Is there a possibility of sides being worse as a result of frontloading?

[marcus300]

Is there a possibility of sides being worse as a result of frontloading?

Ive just been speaking with you on another site......

All what happens is that you reach peak blood levels within the first week or so rather than waiting for weeks for it to build up. if you was going to get sides you will sooner.

[athlete20]

Ive just been speaking with you on another site......

All what happens is that you reach peak blood levels within the first week or so rather than waiting for weeks for it to build up. if you was going to get sides you will sooner.

Yeah man, Thought I'd come over here since this is the first thread where I read about frontloading.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

[AleX-69]

Is there a possibility of sides being worse as a result of frontloading?

yeah thats more than just possible. you get sides faster and maybe even don't see gains THAT much faster. Its an individual thing. some swear by it others hate it.
I personally only do use short esthered steroids so I use no/only very minor frontloads which works good for me.

[john vega]

Marcus Rhulessssss Bro..

[ShadetreeJones]

Would equipoise be something to frontload? Thanks.

[unclemoney]

Question... Whay was Marcus banned??? I remember that guy from way back and he has always been helpful.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Banned for not knowing when to shut the **** up.

[unclemoney]

Banned for not knowing when to shut the **** up.

OOOOhhhhh, if I recall now, I think it was when you guys had started arguing about something or another... Really sucks that he had to get banned though.

[MMA_Tapout]

Thanks to everyone, this post was very helpful. Especially that graph thanks alex

[Mr Tick]

My advice would be to fronload then inject everyday. This was posted on another board. All good information:

I am writing this but cannot take credit for it. This line of reasoning was pointed out to me by a bro who wishes to now remain anonymous.

GG and Superduty got me thinking tho so I'd thought I'd try to explain it.

The goal of injecting steriods is to increase blood levels of testosterone much higher than can be achieved normally. One of our criteria in doing this is to keep blood levels as stable as possible throughout cycle to provide the best environment for growth and to avoid as many sides as possible. I believe many side effects are caused by the spikes and dips created by once or twice a week injections, even using long esters. A way to reduce these sides would be to use a proper half life to determine when to inject or more importantly how much to frontload with.

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PubMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

That difference is because esters decay at a logarithmic rate, meaning the more esterified hormone in the injection depot, the more is released. This release rate slows as the amount of esterified hormone in the depot is reduced over time.
The general rule is about 0.7 X the number of carbons atoms in a linear ester . However when the body builder needs to keep in mind is that the majority of the esterified hormone is released, regardless of the ester, with the first 24hrs of injection because of the logarithmic rate of decay.
(THANKS TO BODY BY BALCO FOR HIS INFO)
What does this mean in simple terms?
I'll useTestosterone Enthante in an 8 week cycle as an example:

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
__________________


Enthanate Clearance 500 mg


http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/

Anyone care to comment on this or getting better resualts with this type of cycle. By the way GREAT INFO in this thread!!

[PEWN]

t.t.t.

[Dog-Slime]

I dont see why people try give this guy so much credit. There has been one just like it in the educational threads for a very long time.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=125401

[PEWN]

I dont see why people try give this guy so much credit. There has been one just like it in the educational threads for a very long time.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264

thats the same thread....

[Johny-too-small]

thats the same thread....

haha, that is really bad, lol.