Why not frontload every cycle?

**Beefkake31** · 02-19-2007, 03:29 AM

I was reading the frontloading thread last week from Marcus. To sum it up by the end of the first week you will achieve the peak dose if you frontload as opposed to the 7th wk of a cycle not front loaded. You get the benefit of the gear kicking in straight away.

So my question is this; why is this not more recognized by everyone here, excluding the newbs. Shouldn't there basically be a sticky for it since it's a no brainer but yet only 10% of the members do it?

99% of every thread I have seen in here about someone posting their cycle has nothing about frontloading in it. And also, the vets and mods, if the cycle is a good one, they will approve of it. But why don't they tell them to frontload? The way I see it every cycle posted here for feedback should consist of someone suggesting frontloading. I would think the dose peaking by the end of week 1 as opposed to week 7 is a huge deal and needs to be more well known in the forums.

Anyway, this was just something I was curious about and is obviously in no way bashing anyone, just trying to get this out there to see if I am missing something here or if I am actually making a valid point.

**Ejuicer** · 02-19-2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Beefkake31

I was reading the frontloading thread last week from Marcus. To sum it up by the end of the first week you will achieve the peak dose if you frontload as opposed to the 7th wk of a cycle not front loaded. You get the benefit of the gear kicking in straight away.

So my question is this; why is this not more recognized by everyone here, excluding the newbs. Shouldn't there basically be a sticky for it since it's a no brainer but yet only 10% of the members do it?

99% of every thread I have seen in here about someone posting their cycle has nothing about frontloading in it. And also, the vets and mods, if the cycle is a good one, they will approve of it. But why don't they tell them to frontload? The way I see it every cycle posted here for feedback should consist of someone suggesting frontloading. I would think the dose peaking by the end of week 1 as opposed to week 7 is a huge deal and needs to be more well known in the forums.

Anyway, this was just something I was curious about and is obviously in no way bashing anyone, just trying to get this out there to see if I am missing something here or if I am actually making a valid point.

Front loading looks good on paper and all, but as far as kicking in sooner or changing any results in a cycle, i've never had any difference whatsoever by using it. If anything it has just been a waste of gear.

**Warrior** · 02-19-2007, 07:34 AM

I always frontload heavy esters. It gets plasma levels up right away - versus waiting several weeks for them to elevate and then seeing major benefits.

Option B is to stick with light esters throughout the cycle and maintain frequent injections - either way you are getting blood levels of the parent hormone up quickly.

Either way, frontloading gets blood levels up quicker so you can get the cycle producing results faster...

**Erwin** · 02-19-2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

I always frontload heavy esters. It gets plasma levels up right away - versus waiting several weeks for them to elevate and then seeing major benefits.

Option B is to stick with light esters throughout the cycle and maintain frequent injections - either way you are getting blood levels of the parent hormone up quickly.

Either way, frontloading gets blood levels up quicker so you can get the cycle producing results faster...

Warrior, would you mind posting up some of your sources for this? My buddy and I were discussing this the other day and I would like to read up on it for our upcoming cycles. Thanks-Erwin

**SMAN12b** · 02-19-2007, 08:57 AM

Well, I for one have just frontloaded for the first time with Test E and have noticed signs of it kicking in already,(by end of week two) strength is up and most importantly sex drive just went through the roof, so that is good enough for me to want to front load on every cycle with long esters

**McQueen** · 02-19-2007, 09:00 AM

yep i for one frontload every cycle,completely logical when you understand how the compounds work.

SVTMuscle* · 02-19-2007, 09:03 AM

Is it best to front load with Prop? or long ester?

**helium3** · 02-19-2007, 09:05 AM

long ester,prop kicks in so quick you wouldnt need to frontload.

**SMAN12b** · 02-19-2007, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by SVTMuscle

Is it best to front load with Prop? or long ester?

Well I am not an expert, but I do play one on TV.....lolol

I believe the whole point is to front load with the heavy long esters in order to get your blood levels up quickly. I doubled the dose of my Test E for the first week, so I shot about 1400mgs the first week. Not sure I would want to do that much with prop.

I am sure Marcus could answer this better though

SVTMuscle* · 02-19-2007, 11:17 AM

Well I thought the point of front loading is to get your plasma levels up quick, and wouldn't that work best with heavy short esters?

**Snrf** · 02-19-2007, 11:20 AM

with short esters ur blood plasma levels get up quick anyway. not much point in frontloading test prop when ur blood levels will peak in 24 hours anyway....

**kynetguy** · 02-19-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

with short esters ur blood plasma levels get up quick anyway. not much point in frontloading test prop when ur blood levels will peak in 24 hours anyway....

You might peak for that single DOSE in 24 hours. (actually I think its closer to 36-48 hours) But you wont peak for your prop cycle in 24. It still takes about a week to 10 days for a prop cycle to be at maximum blood levels.

The prop will build then fall on blood levels. If you are taking 100mg ED, you might only peak from a single does at 40mg (not sure of the exact numbers) in 48 hours. But the 47 hours before that and the 48 hours after that (considering a 4 day active life) your levels from that single dose is rising and falling.

Its once these curves are overlapping one another that your peak levels are reached. And this will not happen in 24 hours.

I need to do some graphs because a lot of people just don't get the math. (not pointing that at you Snrfmaster) Maybe with it graphed out, I could clear up a lot of misunderstanding how these curves overlap to sustain a particular level of hormones. And it would further explain why it takes time for stuff to "kick in" and reach what I call a "cycle peak."

But with that said and kind of off topic. I have to agree there is not much need to frontload short esters. Test P for example, you can feel in about a week and by week 2 you should be maxed out if you are doing ED injects.

**hugovsilva** · 02-19-2007, 12:07 PM

I think u can always frontload, although with short esters i don't really think it is needed. Anyway, from what I understand, frontload consists of getting double the dose for the drug's 1st half life.

**dhriscerr** · 02-19-2007, 12:41 PM

I front loaded on my first cycle after reading Marcus thread. Today is the first day of week 3 havn't felt it yet but hopefully soon. And everyone says its a waste of gear, but seriously its comes out to like 7-20 bucks to frontload depending on how much you pay for Enathate. Its only 2 extra CC's so for 7-20 bucks, WHY NOT????

**Dog-Slime** · 02-19-2007, 01:36 PM

I frontloaded my test E and it kicked in QUICK. I just took my 4th shot (2nd shot of week two) and my sex drive has been through the roof since atleast the second shot. Most will say im lying but I could feel it kicking in on about day 2. Already seeing strength and weight gains (Prob just water). This is my first time running test so I dunno if that would make it kick in quicker but it blows my mind hearing someone say they are on week 2 or 3 and cant feel it cuz I was feeling it atleast in the first few days if not the very next day.

SVTMuscle* · 02-19-2007, 01:41 PM

Wouldn't front loading cause alot of side effects?

**Dog-Slime** · 02-19-2007, 02:24 PM

Sides might would come on quicker but I dont think it would do anything more than that.

**Beefkake31** · 02-19-2007, 02:53 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys, this thread did miss the point a little but from what I got from all this is that half the people don't see a difference with frontloading and the other half do hence the reason it is not that recognized which was my main question. I was starting to wonder why no one would suggest it for first timers doing a test E only cycle and why it was not a sticky for people to know. So frontloading isn't as big of a deal as I thought it was, thanks for the help.

**Son Of Khadafi** · 02-19-2007, 04:00 PM

IMO you dont get much faster results. Also, no matter how much you put into your system the first week, it won't make your body cleave the ester off any faster

**Warrior** · 02-20-2007, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Erwin

Warrior, would you mind posting up some of your sources for this? My buddy and I were discussing this the other day and I would like to read up on it for our upcoming cycles. Thanks-Erwin

It is basic pharmacology dude - based on how esters behave and their half-lives. A layman's guide to frontloading would be to take double the maintenance dose prior to the first half life. For instance, if you were to administer 250mg of TE every 4 days... you would be receiving 438mg per week; (250/4)*7). 438*2=876. Based on enanthate 's half-life, you should administer 876mg of TE within the first 4 days. And then continue with 250mg every 4 days for the duration.

There are other ways to calculate a good front load - but thats a quick reference.

Attached is a chart (based on release patterns) from my last cycle. It shows how I frontloaded testosterone for a short burst cycle. I maintained Testosterone Enanthate at 500mg every other day (beginning with the frontload) for 1750mg of testosterone per week. The frontload included 1500mg of Sustanon on day one, 500mg on day two and then starting the next day: 500mg of TE every other day.