How is this cycle for first time?

**johnmacdan** · 03-08-2007, 11:08 AM

35 years old
6'4" 255, 25%+ bf

Have Stanotest 100mg/ml (50/50 Suspension and Winny)
Cytomel 25mcg

I am going to take the Cytomel every day for weeks 1-6 starting at 1 pill a day for a week then to 2 a day for a week then to 3 a day for 2 weeks and cycle back down.

I plan on taking the Stanotest 1ml eod for 10 weeks. Then do my PCT.

I want to cut weight and get leaner. Will this work?

**pavlenko** · 03-08-2007, 11:22 AM

dont do roids until you drop b/f naturally. atleast 15% and then run

**TbolzNdbols** · 03-08-2007, 11:25 AM

i agree your not ready. Do what you can with fat natty then look to aas. IMO you should drop to about 10-11% so you can see nice clean gains with a good diet and aas

**canadian meat** · 03-08-2007, 11:28 AM

25%+
dude you should do A little more dieting bufore you do a cutting cycle makes no sence to me but thats just my little advise

**jaydub** · 03-08-2007, 11:30 AM

yeah...and besides what the other guys are saying, you should try a single compound first before trying to stack. for now I'd just diet, hit some hard cardio and do some research

**johnmacdan** · 03-08-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by jaydub

yeah...and besides what the other guys are saying, you should try a single compound first before trying to stack. for now I'd just diet, hit some hard cardio and do some research

Thanks, I've been doing this already. Dropped 25 pounds in about 3 months through workout and diet. My actual bf is 23%, checked it during lunch. Still more than I want though. I really thought the Cytomel would help tremendously with the fat loss while the Stanotest would help keep muslce. I didn't expect to be cut or ripped after the first cycle, but thought it would help give me a kickstart.

Are you saying it won't help at all or is a waste of time until I lose more fat naturally?

**SNUKA** · 03-08-2007, 12:41 PM

get your body fat down naturally first and then run a better cycle. shooting that eod will do nothing but give you side efffects. twice a day is optimal i would no do that cycle as a first cycle

**jagdpanther** · 03-08-2007, 02:25 PM

Different people use steriods for different reasons especially at different ages.
Unless you are 35+ and been out of shape you haven't been in this guys shoes.
I trained hard through out my teens and twenties for athletics not BB. So I was biger then average and cut nicley but not huge. At 30 I got a very well paying job. I got greedy worked long hours, ate like shit, and stopped training. I went from 6 foot 195 -200 to 250+ in a little over 5 years.
Got a different job because that one was killing me and tried to take the weight off on my own. Over 35 the body doesn't respond as quickly to diet and training.

With HGH and AAS I was able to get back down to a relatively muscular 200lbs in 8 months. Would I use the hormones to do it all over again if I had to ? hell yes! He's is not using it souly for vanity purposes, as in trying to be bigger, but to actually be healthier - lose fat and increase LBM. My only concern for johnmacdan does he know what a healthy lifestyle is i.e. diet and training?
I knew from years of doing it when i was younger so i felt at home getting up in the morning for cardio and stretching then going to the gym at night to lift- I also knew how to lift. I'd been counting calories and breaking my diet into %protien,%carbs, %fats before so again it was not a big deal.

As for your choice of AAS. I haven't done Test sus before so all I can tell you is what I've read - frequent and painful injections (twice a day), very good gains but heavily aromatizes - easy to gain fat as well.

I've done winny. I liked the results but found the injections more painful then most and the negative impact on hdh/ldl not worth it.

I'd recomend an AI with the test sus -like femara or adex. I would also rather use test prop in your shoes if your afraind of temp. bloat or test E if you can deal with temp bloat. For a second compound anavar and/or tbol would be okay. Tren is great for what you are trying to do but may yet be over your head. Then again you are older and should be more mature.
Using the cytomel is a good idea but only while on cycle.
If you can afford to do 6 months of hgh 2-4iu a day 5on/2off that would be of tremendous benefit in the long run.

I just reread your post - eod shots of test sus is a total waist bro. Sorry to tell you -look at the half life.

good luck,
jagdpanther

**johnmacdan** · 03-08-2007, 03:23 PM

Your situation is much like mine. I played college football and was always in the gym. I got married at 27, started law school the week after and had a kid within a year. I went from 260 and built to 230 and pudgy in 4 years. The weight crept up until I hit 280 at Christmas. I rededicated myself to losing the weight and getting back in shape. I had already been lifting, but not much cardio and definitely no diet. Now I do Yoga and/or the treadmill most every day and get in the gym to lift 4-5 days a week. I am on a pretty good diet which I track using Excel and have spent a fortune at GNC. This has helped me lose 25 pounds and gain back much of my strength. Now I am looking to to get a kickstart.

I did some research and then talked to several HRT clinic and the one I went with said this would be a good cycle to start with so I could lose weight without losing muscle mass.

Are they full of crap and just trying to sell me something or will this help me lose weight while not losing muscle?

As for what I should take, I didn't feel like I had a big choice this time. I would rather of had the Suspension as something else with the Winny separate so I could take them in uneven doses. I don't believe I should take as much Winny as Suspension, but don't have a choice with the blend.

**jagdpanther** · 03-08-2007, 04:53 PM

When one is dieting, doing cardio, and lifting they go into a catabolic state -as we both know loosing fat and muscle. Certain Anabolic steriods will bind with receptors on the muscle cell and signal the cell to retain nitrogen keeping the cell from going catabolic. Anabolic steriods that have a good androgen rating also bind to fat cells telling them to dump fat. Testosterone is the standard against which all anabolic steriods are measured. It has a anabolic/androgen rating and ratio of 100:100. This is true whether the it is the base hormone as in suspension, or an estrified version like proprionate or enanthenate. The difference between the suspension and various esterfied versions is the half life. The hormone can't be utilized by the body while it is esterfied. The longer the ester the longer it takes for the body to release the hormone. The result is that test sus would cause a sudden spike in testosterone levels and rapidly diminish. The esterfied versions keep the levels of testosterone more even over time and slowly diminish.
My thinking is that if you are in a catabolic state from dieting, for the most part that is going on 24/7. More specifically your body has more catabolic reactions going on then anabolic at any given time because there are always some of both going on. I may be wrong but I would think you would want there to be anabolic steriods present 24/7 to shift the balance in favour of anabolic muscle growth while helping catabolise the fat. Test sus has a short half life so that with eod injections it would not be present 24/7 to compete with the catabolic hormones. That is why I think it is a poor choice with that protocol.

okay know that I have butchered that explanation let me provide a few links to steriod profiles incase you haven't had a chance to research them.

http://www.steroid.com/Testosterone-Suspension.php
http://www.steroid.com/Testosterone-Propionate.php

Actually from those pages you you can browse and learn about the full arsenal of hormones available. Before I decided to start taking any steriods I spent 6-8months researching as much as I could in my free time. No I don't want a gold star I'm just trying to say there is alot more to it than take this and that. Provided you spend the time, the knowledge gained will have a huge pay off in reguards to attaining your goals.

Glad you know how to train and diet bro! I use an excel spread sheet for everything -diet, cycle, injection rotation -just to name a few.

good luck,

jagdpanther

**johnmacdan** · 03-14-2007, 10:34 AM

I have tracked my diet before, but knowing how to diet is totally different. Before I was young enough to get see results without knowing what I was doing. I am reading and learning though.

In all this reading and learning, I come up with more questions.

I had planned on taking the Stanotest eod (as prescribed), but given the active life of the Suspension and Winny (50/50 in Stanotest) are basically both less than a day, should I

a) take something else with it and if yes, what (would prefer and oral rather than another shot)

b) take it ed which would shorten the cycle to about 6 weeks

I can get something else, but probably can't get more of what I have.

**SuperLift** · 03-14-2007, 10:45 AM

Test Suspension is not a smart idea for your first cycle. Try a more simple compound that requires less frequent injections. Maybe Enanthate or Cypionate .

**vicious cycle** · 03-14-2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by jagdpanther

Different people use steriods for different reasons especially at different ages.
Unless you are 35+ and been out of shape you haven't been in this guys shoes.
I trained hard through out my teens and twenties for athletics not BB. So I was biger then average and cut nicley but not huge. At 30 I got a very well paying job. I got greedy worked long hours, ate like shit, and stopped training. I went from 6 foot 195 -200 to 250+ in a little over 5 years.
Got a different job because that one was killing me and tried to take the weight off on my own. Over 35 the body doesn't respond as quickly to diet and training.

With HGH and AAS I was able to get back down to a relatively muscular 200lbs in 8 months. Would I use the hormones to do it all over again if I had to ? hell yes! He's is not using it souly for vanity purposes, as in trying to be bigger, but to actually be healthier - lose fat and increase LBM. My only concern for johnmacdan does he know what a healthy lifestyle is i.e. diet and training?
I knew from years of doing it when i was younger so i felt at home getting up in the morning for cardio and stretching then going to the gym at night to lift- I also knew how to lift. I'd been counting calories and breaking my diet into %protien,%carbs, %fats before so again it was not a big deal.

As for your choice of AAS. I haven't done Test sus before so all I can tell you is what I've read - frequent and painful injections (twice a day), very good gains but heavily aromatizes - easy to gain fat as well.

I've done winny. I liked the results but found the injections more painful then most and the negative impact on hdh/ldl not worth it.

I'd recomend an AI with the test sus -like femara or adex. I would also rather use test prop in your shoes if your afraind of temp. bloat or test E if you can deal with temp bloat. For a second compound anavar and/or tbol would be okay. Tren is great for what you are trying to do but may yet be over your head. Then again you are older and should be more mature.
Using the cytomel is a good idea but only while on cycle.
If you can afford to do 6 months of hgh 2-4iu a day 5on/2off that would be of tremendous benefit in the long run.

I just reread your post - eod shots of test sus is a total waist bro. Sorry to tell you -look at the half life.

good luck,
jagdpanther

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**johnmacdan** · 03-14-2007, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by SuperLift

Test Suspension is not a smart idea for your first cycle. Try a more simple compound that requires less frequent injections. Maybe Enanthate or Cypionate.

That's what I've been told, but that is what I received from the clinic. I still think I will get results from this cycle and want to maximize them.

Any suggestion on how to maximize by adding another substance or taking it differently?

**testisbest** · 03-14-2007, 12:19 PM

If you must run test sus, then you'll have to inject 2x per day. I'd hold off on that cycle until you can find a single ester test which might give you a little more time to get that bf% down.

**johnmacdan** · 03-20-2007, 02:42 PM

I'm taking some advice and going with a better first cycle. I'm gonna use Test with the Cytomel . A couple of questions:
1. Would you recommend Sustanon 250 or Test Enthanate?
2. Should I use the Stanotest too and if so, would it be better at the beginning or end?

**jagdpanther** · 03-20-2007, 03:00 PM

I like test e because its not a blend of different length esters. Although some would argue that the blend releases more test at the outset I think it is relativley insignificant and makes it slightly more difficult to keep blood levels consistent. Either way its not a big deal.
Possibly of greater significanse, at least the last time the last time I looked at premixed test prices (I've used powders for a while), sustanon 250 was more expensive then teste. i don't see the point in paying extra. If i want short esters then i'd buy test prop. If i wanted longer esters I'dby test e. If you want to front load buy both. Having both test e and test prop
allows for greater flexability then sustanon in every situation i can think of.
It is also cheaper.