Our Son

**Warrior** · 03-10-2007, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by nflnut

Thanks everyone, I have been monitoring and your replies have been informative. Much of what I've read here are things we already know from exhautive studying. We have no way of knowing what role AAS played but nonetheless, his chemicals are out of sync. Our MD is studying his blood work and urine specimans constantly and hope answers will start showing up. We did find out his testosterone level is below the minimum marker for a young man and looks like some andrenal hormone cream will be provided by a pharmacy on Monday. I may not be responding much more but again, I think you guys have been up front and honest with what you know.

Can you please tell us his age and if he has a history of mental illness - or previous symptoms? So we can draw some links and better understand this case/scenario. If you can link AAS use to mental illness, I would like to beter understand the other environmental and internal contributors; since it's it is obvious to thousands of others in this forum, AAS does not cause mental illness.

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-10-2007, 03:48 AM

I did my first cycle at the age of 18. I didnt know anything about it, except that the guy giving it to me was f'n HUGE!! After I came off of it (1 10 cc bottle of cypionate over a six week period) I went NUTS for like a year and a half. The shit that went on in my head was CRAZY and I'm not going to go into detail (unnecessary). It was so bad I could not even hardly step foot out of my front door because I was so nervous, of what, I don't know. I would have to say that it was light psychosis/paranoia. While I don't know if I still suffer from the depression it sent me into or if the depression is caused by my severe hypothyroidism (recently diagnosed). I would be more than willing to discuss my experiences with you in hopes of finding help with your son. I will tell you that I felt there were two things that I felt helped me snap out of it. 1) another cycle [in a sense what the doc is doing for your son with the cream] 2) a couple of valiums [not that im suggesting the use of valium, just that it helped me realize that I didnt always have to feel "that way", and that those feelings were not normal. I did not have the courage to tell anyone how I was feeling for fear of people thinking I was crazy or making excuses or something. It took me many years to completely recover. Maybe if I could have let someone know what was going on in my head, ie my parents, there could have been a easier and much quicker resolution to the problem. Your son has a huge advantage over me and the situation I was in. His Parents. I would love to think that I could use the negative experiences I had in a positive way. Anything I can do....... Let me know

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-10-2007, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Can you please tell us his age and if he has a history of mental illness - or previous symptoms? So we can draw some links and better understand this case/scenario. If you can link AAS use to mental illness, I would like to beter understand the other environmental and internal contributors; since it's it is obvious to thousands of others in this forum, AAS does not cause mental illness.

Low testosterone levels do cause depression. coming off a cycle with no PCT causes Low test levels.

**Mealticket** · 03-10-2007, 04:28 AM

i'll pm liftergirl and ask her to post her opinion.
She's an MD

**Mealticket** · 03-10-2007, 04:31 AM

[QUOTE=nflnut] We did find out his testosterone level is below the minimum marker for a young man and looks like some andrenal hormone cream will be provided by a pharmacy on Monday.QUOTE]

This is what DR's prescribe when they want to "play it safe" and keep their noses clean and keep from being put in a bind legally.
Not a good idea in my opinion.

**Swifto** · 03-10-2007, 03:48 PM

I can honestly say I've never experienced any of this or know of anyone that has in anyway shape/form. (Not much help I know).

Good luck also. I hope things work out.

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-10-2007, 06:12 PM

" excess androgens in the body cause a number negitive psychiatric effects; anxiety, insomnia, rage, and even psychosis.
Depression is often accompanied by anxiety and androgens can make this even worse. If you are using anti-depressants I would stay away from strong androgens and testosterone . Altered estrogen/prolactin levels can derange dopamine and T3 levels in the brain and cause all kinds of probllems if you are already suffering from a psychiatric problem. Also, do not supress your estrogen levels too low, this is also asking for trouble. If you are going to use ,stay with a mild AAS like anavar beginning with small dosages (20mg./day) to see haw you react. Hope this helps,".

Glocks words (from another site)not mine, but it sounds legit.

Glock

**frank12391** · 03-10-2007, 07:13 PM

I recomend you focus on his treatment as you currently see it rather than trying to find the cause. I know it's difficult, but you have to stop asking how and why did this happen. It won't make him better and the only thing that will give you relief is his recovery. focus on what to do now and for his future. It's important to get him stabilized and plan ahead for his recovery now, look forward rather than behind. There are good treatments available for the symtoms he is showing - provided by a psychiatrist. When he is better, follow it up with councelling for the whole family.

I am very sorry about your Son and sincerely hope he recovers very soon,
Take care.

**Warrior** · 03-11-2007, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dobie-BOY

Low testosterone levels do cause depression. coming off a cycle with no PCT causes Low test levels.

Sure - but thats a temporary condition - the original poster is trying to link a deriative of testosterone to a case of severe long-term metal illness.

I still would like to know the age of this young man? It's still my opinion that he was too young to be messin' with this stuff and had a pre-exhisting disorder that the high levels of AAS may have only helped advance it's progression. Testosterone has been used successfully to treat depression in hypogonadal men; supraphysiological levels in an adolocent pre-dispoed to mental illness is not a reasonable and is simply reckless on his part for not researching this prior to his use...

Testosterone and the brain.
Zitzmann M.
Aging Male. 2006 Dec;9(4):195-9
Institute of Reproductive Medicine, University of Munster, Munster, Germany. [email protected]

Gender differences in spatial recognition, and age-related declines in cognition and mood, point towards testosterone as an important modulator of cerebral functions. Testosterone appears to activate a distributed cortical network, the ventral processing stream, during spatial cognition tasks, and addition of testosterone improves spatial cognition in younger and older hypogonadal men. In addition, reduced testosterone is associated with depressive disorders. The relationship between depression and testosterone appears to partly depend upon the androgen receptor genotype of the patient, and in appropriate patients with low testosterone levels, testosterone substitution can increase positive mood and decrease negative mood. The much publicized link between testosterone and aggression is probably only of importance in athletes who supplement their testosterone levels to excessively high levels, whereas in hypogonadal men, testosterone supplementation only enhances the positive aspects of aggression such as vigour and energy. Current data suggest that testosterone supplementation in hypogonadal men of all ages will enhance many aspects of mood and cognition.

PMID: 17178554 [PubMed - in process]

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-11-2007, 02:16 AM

[QUOTE=Warrior]Sure - but thats a temporary condition - the original poster is trying to link a deriative of testosterone to a case of severe long-term metal illness.

True, I do not believe that it was the steroids themselves that cause this condition, for sure not in my case, but more the coming off of them. I believe its the extreme change in hormone levels from coming off imporperly. I also believe that there was pre-existing mental conditions that were simply magnified to the point they could no longer be suppressed or hidden.

**SnaX** · 03-11-2007, 03:20 AM

I'm taking a certain biology class, and a Physiological Psychology class that pretty much coincides with one another.

On the topic of neurotransmitter, there is potassium and sodium ions. (chloride is in there too)

Anyhoo, sodium raises neurons to a higher excited state, and potassium i blieve lowers it.

You know what, I'm going to go through my notes, and see if I can find anything.

Are you still able to talk to him? Maybe you can tell me more, and be more specific, and i'll bring it up with some people.

Has he had an MRI or another form of scan done on him?
I'm never a person to give up. If something like this can happen, then it can be fixed as well. nothing is broken forever.

Shoot me a PM.

**scaramouche** · 03-12-2007, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by fatback25

Has anyone considered that this might be a bullshit thread? I mean I hope it is because I would feel bad for this kid but just sounds fishy. This situation just sounds like an "Anti-steroid" propganda scenario used to scare people. I don't know. God Bless em if the thread is true.

good call,if a family member goes nuts what do u do take him to the docs or look on a steroid users info board

**jagdpanther** · 03-12-2007, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by scaramouche

good call,if a family member goes nuts what do u do take him to the docs or look on a steroid users info board

They took him to the doc first who ran all sorts of tests. If I understand nlfnut's position he's tried the main stream and is now looking into smaller creeks.

**BIG_T_MC06** · 03-13-2007, 03:43 AM

I know im gunna get flamed for this but what the fu*#.

I started on AAS around the age of 18, i cycled on and off and started using PCT around my 4rd cycle. Looking back my cycles were not that badly designed, age was the bad factor in this senario. (1st cycle was 1 sus p/w, 2nd cycle 2 cyp p/w,)

Anyway back to the mental issues - i have never suffered any of the symptoms mentioned in this thread and nor has a very good friend of mine who started cycling at 19 years old. I find it very hard to believe that gear caused this kid to become paranoid etc. Maybe he was taking other drugs, this could have caused probs?

T

***Doc.Sust*** · 03-13-2007, 09:28 AM

i dont believe you can point out aas use as the sole cause of this problem. but none the less, i wish you the best in treatment of your child. this sounds to me like an endocrine problem. i hope you are working with a neurologist on this matter and not just a general MD

**shrpskn** · 03-13-2007, 06:50 PM

^^Ditto.

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-14-2007, 12:13 AM

Steroids didnt cause the mental illness. Coming off without proper PCT .......AND..... probably a pre-existing mental condition which had been contained or insignificant prior to the hormone swing. It was not one or the other. IT WAS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO!
Pre-existing condition + Hormone imbalance. Guaranteed!!

**Mista Massive** · 03-14-2007, 01:03 AM

sorry to add another post to this thread, but i am extremley curious as to why it is a sticky. it isn't informative nor does it produce any scientific evidence to aid us in deciding wether to use AAS.

i'm not trying to be a smart ass here, just curious

**Dobie-BOY** · 03-14-2007, 01:24 AM

It was made a sticky in an effort to generate lots of information for people in need. In my opinion though, if they give up as easily as they have given up on this board, their son is FU**ED. If it was even a legit post in the first place.

**violator1** · 03-14-2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by king6

Agree, the steroids they refer to in that publication are for steroids like prednisone, cortisone, cortisol, and kenalog 10. These steroids do not do the same thing as AAS.

thank you bro...totally different steroid .

**wishmasterATM** · 03-14-2007, 07:55 PM

jeeezz 10 week winny....

**Pops1985** · 03-14-2007, 08:13 PM

Dang Sorry about your Son, but isn't 10 week to much? And should Winny be have a Test in background?

**mcmajor** · 03-18-2007, 07:21 PM

i have a strong feeling there is more to this issue than meets the eye. you might wanna be sure that AAS is all your son too!. sorry about that, its such a sad story. good luck hey.

**sooners04** · 03-18-2007, 07:23 PM

I wonder if recreational drugs are also a factor. The symptoms are not common among AAS users.

**shrpskn** · 03-19-2007, 05:05 PM

IMO, I think this thread is no longer worthwhile of its "Important" sticky status...The threadstarter has posted only twice and we have asked many questions for the threadstarter so that we can be of any, if any, assistance...threadstarter fails to respond...

I realize the importance of AAS and the dangers of use by teens and the uneducated, but after following this thread since day one. I call B.S.

**spywizard** · 03-19-2007, 05:07 PM

I agree

**Schmidty** · 03-19-2007, 05:18 PM

I wouldnt say its all bs.it is possible for a kid to do aas and then get some mental health problems but its not from the aas it was proly gona happen anyway