hair loss and products

**gorditi** · 03-19-2007, 04:13 AM

Good morning,

What are the worse products after testosterone for hair loss?

There are any problems with primobolant dépot or wistrol?

Thank you

**skipp** · 03-19-2007, 09:28 AM

Research, winny could be even worse than test for your hairline.

**Z-Ro** · 03-19-2007, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by gorditi

Good morning,

What are the worse products after testosterone for hair loss?

There are any problems with primobolant dépot or wistrol?

Thank you

Instead of writing it all out let me first say that ALL steroids have the potential for hairloss. Now with that being said Test (w/ DHT inhibitor), Eq, Var, Tbol, are the safest and FOR SOME Deca ,Dbol ,Primo,Tren . I've found after much research that some people that are prone to MPB may loose patches of hair on Dbol but will lose nothing on Masteron . One guy may go bald on Winny but can use 1g of Test. Honestly, you'll never know untill you try them but I would say its high probability you'll loose hair on Tren, Masteron, Dbol, Drol, Winny. This is all IF you are PRONE to MPB!!! Now just for peace of mind, if you worried about hair loss Tren and Dbol are the last if iffy drugs I would touch with no previous cycles under my belt.

**Z-Ro** · 03-19-2007, 10:02 AM

Also it depends on your duration and dosage of the compounds used during the cycle. I've read of guys running Winny alone and not loosing much hair but most will advise against it. I have no say in running compounds alone because I like Test, the only negative sides I've gotten from it were hairloss, slight gyno - at higher dosages.

**Pooks** · 03-19-2007, 10:10 AM

Also,,If u're doing TEST...
and u're getting a lot of Acne during a cycle..
thats a sign to possibly take precautions for your hair, and start blocking some DHT.

**Z-Ro** · 03-19-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Pooks

Also,,If u're doing TEST...
and u're getting a lot of Acne during a cycle..
thats a sign to possibly take precautions for your hair, and start blocking some DHT.

I never thought of that correlation. Is that because acne is a side effect of androgens? That is werid that you say this, I had a friend who said he lost lots of hair on Test @ 500mg and had tons of acne on his back and shoulders.

**Pooks** · 03-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Z-Ro

I never thought of that correlation. Is that because acne is a side effect of androgens? That is werid that you say this, I had a friend who said he lost lots of hair on Test @ 500mg and had tons of acne on his back and shoulders.

TESTOSTERONE gets converted by the 5-AR enzyme, into DHT...
this happens, when testosterone enters our CNS system, scalp area, and skin.
Testosterone only stays itself when it attaches to the AR enzyme (not 5-AR) this happens when it enters skeletal muscles.

DHT is a stronger adrogen than Testosterone, so less of it is more potent..

gonna try n stay on point here, ummm
DHT in large quantities causes Inflammation..
this is what cause HAIRLOSS, and ACNE..
its an auto-immune response, our own body basically attacks the hair follicles and destroys them.

It also causes ACNE..

if u look up Dutasteride, and Acne, or Finasteride and Acne, you will lots of studies done, and good results in treating acne.

Less DHT, = Less inflammation = better skin and hair.

another way to battle the inflammation would be anti-androgens,
such as the topical Nizoral.
and there are others also.

U take out AR-5 enzymes with Dutasteride.. which takes out DHT.
leaves u only Testosterone,,
Testosterone in high doses will also do the damage, but it will take a lot longer than with DHT..

anways, I also wonder if this Auto-Immune response, has to with the Famous TEST FLU Also.

So its a wild guess at this point, but At this point with my knowledge and with a little assumption, I'll go on the limb and say that Dutasteride might minimizes the Test Flu, also the Acne and the hairloss.

**Pooks** · 03-19-2007, 10:30 AM

Z-RO

another cool thing i ran into.

There is this one DRUG that completely shuts down a humans Immune system.
Wipes it out completely..

It is used very rarely and i forget what disease it is that they treat with it.
Anyways, when patients are on that product they RE-GROW hair in massive amounts.

I'm gonna try and find it again,
The catch with that drug is, while you are on it, and if u catch a cold u DIE! LOL

**Z-Ro** · 03-19-2007, 11:11 AM

Good post Pooks. I saw some studies where users of Avodart reported less acne than normal. THat makes perfect sense, I get "slight" acne and "slight" hairloss without any type of topical or DHT inhibitor. But as I said I had a friend who had severe acne and lost a lot of hair when he started to use AAS. I've never heard of that drug, thats insanity! I guess you could get locked up in some kind of quarintined room for a few months and re-grow your hair! LOL! Like Magneto and shit from X-Men.

**SNUKA** · 03-19-2007, 05:55 PM

pooks you are becoming the man with AAS and balding i see you in every post saying great things. im prone i have found that finasteride helps big time with the use of nizoral too. test used to be bad for me but not any more, eq has never been a problem, but winny killed me big time this is when i was younger and didn't do any research, took advice from my source who knew nothing, i wasnt a member of this forum. i paid the price and lost a noticeable amount of hair at an early age. i def wanna start try out tbol or var cause im sick of eq .now i just shave it but i still use finasteride to keep a descent hair line i dont wanna look like dana white from the ufc.

**NewVader** · 03-19-2007, 07:36 PM

is is interesting what happened to me on primo, first time I started loosing a bit of hair for a week or so, and after that my hair has actually gotten thicker. I hear it is the same reaction people have from minoxidil, where they first shed the old hair and then grow a thicker new one. After that, primo never gave me problems the following times

**Pooks** · 03-19-2007, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by SNUKA

pooks you are becoming the man with AAS and balding i see you in every post saying great things. im prone i have found that finasteride helps big time with the use of nizoral too. test used to be bad for me but not any more, eq has never been a problem, but winny killed me big time this is when i was younger and didn't do any research, took advice from my source who knew nothing, i wasnt a member of this forum. i paid the price and lost a noticeable amount of hair at an early age. i def wanna start try out tbol or var cause im sick of eq .now i just shave it but i still use finasteride to keep a descent hair line i dont wanna look like dana white from the ufc.

TNX SNUKA..
All this research I've done, has given me a better grasp on these chemicals we use for hairloss.
Now I know why all VETS here, say to use DUTA, Nizoral etc..
CAUSE THEY KNOW THEIR STUFF, and now i've gotten a chance to see for myself how it all works... Glad other peeps read along too man.. the more we know on this stuff, the more confident we'll be at using any of these products.

**randy6969** · 03-20-2007, 12:18 AM

Pooks, you think it would be a good idea to do Test e 500mg ew, EQ , and tbol cycle with nizoral 2% EOD, and finistride .25mg ed. Will that be a good cycle with minimum hairloss... i would take the Finastride till end of pct. And then stop it. i would not take aas if it affects my hairline in anyway. But if i can prevent it with nizoral, and finastride then i will do another cycle. Would i be ok with finastride, or do i need dutastride? and How bad is the libido loss and how long did it last for(from dutastride/finastride)?

**Pooks** · 03-20-2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by randy6969

Pooks, you think it would be a good idea to do Test e 500mg ew, EQ , and tbol cycle with nizoral 2% EOD, and finistride .25mg ed. Will that be a good cycle with minimum hairloss... i would take the Finastride till end of pct. And then stop it. i would not take aas if it affects my hairline in anyway. But if i can prevent it with nizoral, and finastride then i will do another cycle. Would i be ok with finastride, or do i need dutastride? and How bad is the libido loss and how long did it last for(from dutastride/finastride)?

I've been on DUTA for 3 weeks now, and have not lost my libido.
Now that I think back to the time i did lose my Libido, ... it was a time when i was freakin out about too much bloat and also some hairloss,, I was take Finasteride, Dutasteride, Letrozole , Nolvadex LOL
I was taking so much stuff it made me freak out for that too, cause it was so out of control... but I regained it lol.. basically Letrozole might had been what made me go limp, and Ifor sure Duta, and Fina did not help the matter one bit

Anyways, back on Topic.. DUTA will take out more DHT.
There are 2 types of 5-AR which is really what DUTA and FINA take out..
TYPE 1.. is located in your skin, and some other parts of the body
TYPE 2.. is located in your genitalia and some other organs.

"Dutasteride, a second-generation 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, is the first and only medicine to inhibit both the type 1 and type 2 enzymes responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT (dihydrotestosterone), the primary cause of prostate growth. Dutasteride's dual inhibition has been found to decrease levels of DHT by 90 percent at two weeks and 93 percent at two years."

READ THE REST HERE http://www.forhair.com/avodart_hair_loss_product.htm
So DUTA is more effectlive..

On another NOTE... Testosterone also binds to hair follicle receptors, TEST AND EQ.. are pretty much Testosterone.. not sure on TBOL.. but anyways just because you take out DHT, does not mean you will keep all your hair or regrow it.
Thats why you need an ANTI-ANDROGEN. Like Nizoral shampoo for one..
to give you the best fighting chance of keeping your hair.
Testosterone's binding power is weaker than DHTs.. so Nizoral shampoo ought to have a better chance of taking it out TEST than DHT.

**BruceMan7777** · 03-20-2007, 08:55 AM

so I guess Dutasteride is the best product to get for hairloss, where can I get it?

**Z-Ro** · 03-20-2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Pooks

I've been on DUTA for 3 weeks now, and have not lost my libido.
Now that I think back to the time i did lose my Libido, ... it was a time when i was freakin out about too much bloat and also some hairloss,, I was take Finasteride, Dutasteride, Letrozole , Nolvadex LOL
I was taking so much stuff it made me freak out for that too, cause it was so out of control... but I regained it lol.. basically Letrozole might had been what made me go limp, and Ifor sure Duta, and Fina did not help the matter one bit

Anyways, back on Topic.. DUTA will take out more DHT.
There are 2 types of 5-AR which is really what DUTA and FINA take out..
TYPE 1.. is located in your skin, and some other parts of the body
TYPE 2.. is located in your genitalia and some other organs.

"Dutasteride, a second-generation 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, is the first and only medicine to inhibit both the type 1 and type 2 enzymes responsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT (dihydrotestosterone), the primary cause of prostate growth. Dutasteride's dual inhibition has been found to decrease levels of DHT by 90 percent at two weeks and 93 percent at two years."

READ THE REST HERE http://www.forhair.com/avodart_hair_loss_product.htm
So DUTA is more effectlive..

On another NOTE... Testosterone also binds to hair follicle receptors, TEST AND EQ.. are pretty much Testosterone.. not sure on TBOL.. but anyways just because you take out DHT, does not mean you will keep all your hair or regrow it.
Thats why you need an ANTI-ANDROGEN. Like Nizoral shampoo for one..
to give you the best fighting chance of keeping your hair.
Testosterone's binding power is weaker than DHTs.. so Nizoral shampoo ought to have a better chance of taking it out TEST than DHT.

I was going to post here again last night but was tired and went to bed. Anyways, I've used Finasteride and Dutasteride, currently using Dutasteride. When I started using Finasteride I noticed no effect upon my libido. However, when I started to use Dutasteride it seems as if I have noticed a drop in my libido. Trust me I still want to pull down some panties but its not like it was when I was younger. Its nothing to freak out about though, trust me if you start thinking your libido is going to kick the dust your just going to stress yourself out about it. People say your wang goes limp, mine stays just as hard as it did before. Not to get into too much detail.

But if you are concerned about hairloss then it is worth a shot.

Okay, yes EQ is a derivative of Test, I know recently some guy put up a blood work post about how EQ had raised his testosterone levels . I believe that EQ has a low affinity to the 5AR enzyme and it converts to very little DHB which is a harsh androgen. I'm not sure of the science behind all this its just from my readings. So basically Fina/Duta have no effect on EQ but EQ is fairly mild for the most part.

Tbol is supposedly very gentle on the hair but I have read posts of bros loosing hair on Tbol. Like Duke of Earl stated that its likely do to Tbol's ability to increase free Test by connecting to SHBG. So I suppose in theory a DHT blocker would prevent hairloss on Tbol too.

Feel free to look over this, I don't want to spout off dumb shit. haha!

Then on to what Pooks said about Nizoral and I agree. Nizoral helps for me too, DHT blocker, Nizoral, Rogaine will help thicken your hair up a lot. My hair was thin thin thin 10 months ago or so. Now its finally starting to thicken back up. I don't plan to just let it go down the drain anytime soon. Pooks did you ever find out that drug that causes massive amounts of hair to be grown after it shuts down your immune system?

**Atomini** · 03-20-2007, 09:34 AM

How about the use of Proscar while on AAS? Proscar reduces the serum concentration of DHT, therefore minimizing the unwanted androgenic effects that result from its presence. So that means minimizing acne, oily skin, and hair loss, etc. Essentially, it's a 5-Alpha Reductase inhibitor.

Has anyone here used it while on a cycle?

**Z-Ro** · 03-20-2007, 09:44 AM

Finasteride/Propecia/Proscar - all Finasteride

Avodart is Dutasteride

Propecia is Finasteride at 1mg
Proscar is Finasteride at 5mg

Avodart is Dutasteride at .5mg

But yes people use it on cycle, I personally have not and have used mine for the most part being natural. It helped me thicken up my hair off cycle though for sure.

**Pooks** · 03-20-2007, 10:05 AM

Yes Z-RO I found it..

here is the excerpt..

"It was discovered that the hair follicles of people losing their hair look very similar under a microscope to people who experience organ rejection after surgery. And, it has been found that the immune system suppressing drug which is used to stop the organ rejection (Cyclosporine) grows hair like crazy because it shuts down the immune response in the body. A cure you say? NO!

If you take some Cyclosporine and you grow hair it will be because you have no immune system and you will get very sick and possibly die. I shit you not-don't mess with this stuff. Anyway, though DHT is clearly important in the cause of hair loss, it is not the final cause and a new race has been started to address the inflammatory response which ultimately causes you hair to fall out."

It is from a Will Brink Article
I hope its ok I put the link to it..
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/willbrink15.htm

**Pooks** · 03-20-2007, 10:15 AM

UGH.. I hate putting links to other boards
but http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussi...0bf9517ba539e3

the immune system thing has been discussed thoroughly in this thread. havent had time to go thru it yet.. doin some school work now, than off to work.

**Prada** · 03-20-2007, 12:19 PM

Yes Cyclosporine is a very strong and dangerous drug and should never considered for hairloss. It is even considered as a last resort drug by doctors. The only reason it is used over other immunosuppressant drugs as in Azathioprine is that it is much faster in the needed reaction, while Azathioprine takes months for the desired result.

**hugovsilva** · 03-20-2007, 01:00 PM

Nobody mentioned topical spironolactone. It is the strongest topical anti-androgen available, much stronger than Nizoral. It was the only thing that stopped my hairloss from winny.

**Z-Ro** · 03-20-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

Yes Cyclosporine is a very strong and dangerous drug and should never considered for hairloss. It is even considered as a last resort drug by doctors. The only reason it is used over other immunosuppressant drugs as in Azathioprine is that it is much faster in the needed reaction, while Azathioprine takes months for the desired result.

haha No doubt dude. I would never risk dieing for my hair. If it came down to that I'd just use Test/Tren /Winny/Dbol and shave it all off.

**Z-Ro** · 03-20-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by hugovsilva

Nobody mentioned topical spironolactone. It is the strongest topical anti-androgen available, much stronger than Nizoral. It was the only thing that stopped my hairloss from winny.

I use it on cycle. I've even heard of guys using stuff like Tren but they used:

DHT Inhibitor
Nizoral 2% (EOD)
Spironolactone 5%
Rogaine 2 X ED
Azelaic Acid 2 X ED

Thats a LOT of stuff to use ED on a cylce but I guess if you want to keep your hair you have to do what you have to do. I plan on using this protocol myself. Some might suggest doing the Spiro Topical 2 X ED as well but that gets expensive!

**hugovsilva** · 03-21-2007, 05:08 AM

I am prone to mpb and shed once on winny. The second time i ran topical 5% spiro cream and had no problems. I am pretty confident right now. I got 3 jars of spiro in hand and i am going to start a prop(50mg ed)/tren (37,5mg ed)/tbol or var (60mg ed) cycle.
I am on proscar all year round and have also nizoral shampoo.
I would run winny or masteron instead of tbol or var, but that would be risking too much.

Basically I will be running a hair agressive cycle at low dosages with all the protection I can get. Let's see how it goes.

**Z-Ro** · 03-21-2007, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by hugovsilva

I am prone to mpb and shed once on winny. The second time i ran topical 5% spiro cream and had no problems. I am pretty confident right now. I got 3 jars of spiro in hand and i am going to start a prop(50mg ed)/tren (37,5mg ed)/tbol or var (60mg ed) cycle.
I am on proscar all year round and have also nizoral shampoo.
I would run winny or masteron instead of tbol or var, but that would be risking too much.

Basically I will be running a hair agressive cycle at low dosages with all the protection I can get. Let's see how it goes.

Hey sounds good Hugosilva, keep me updated. I am MPB prone as well and was contemplating running Test and Tren too at low dosages. I feel that you don't need crazy dosages to get somewhere but unfortuanatley many compunds that speed up the process are the best ones Winny, Tren, Masteron......I think you'll be okay as long as you stay on top of it. I thought about running Winny alone before the cycle to see how I react even though people ward against using it alone, I know that. I just would like to see how bad my hair falls out on it. Good call on the Var instead of WInny/Masteron. Test/Tren and/or WInny/Masteron would have been a lot of powerful androgens.

**hugovsilva** · 03-21-2007, 02:36 PM

I will be starting in the middle of may. I'll keep you informed.

**Billytk03z** · 03-25-2007, 11:50 AM

my hair started thinning (no balding or recession) since I have been on cycle.... I am using tbol @ 60mg ed, test prop @ 100mg ed.... I also had slight case of gyno and started taking letro 2.5mg ed to combat it but thats when my joints started hurting, my skin started drying out and when I noticed my hair thining and becoming dry/brittle.... I am also taking 1mg finasteride ed..... personally I think the letro contributed to my hair thinning..... I did alot of research on estro/letro/AI's and a side effect is thinning hair..... i stopped letro and am now using adex 1/2mg eod and Just finished my last shot of prop yesterday and started on myogenx... I am gonna run my tbol for 1 more week and start pct..... has anyone else researched AI's/estro depletion and hairloss? i am also not ruling out that it could be a combination of test and AI's that are thinning my hair too....

**MartyMcFly** · 03-25-2007, 12:01 PM

after 2 months on duta I shed like crazy but read it is normal and usually grows back but it freaked me out

**finny** · 04-15-2007, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Pooks

TNX SNUKA..
All this research I've done, has given me a better grasp on these chemicals we use for hairloss.
Now I know why all VETS here, say to use DUTA, Nizoral etc..
CAUSE THEY KNOW THEIR STUFF, and now i've gotten a chance to see for myself how it all works... Glad other peeps read along too man.. the more we know on this stuff, the more confident we'll be at using any of these products.

When we say 2% Nizoral shampoo, is this the same as the anti-dandruff shampoo - that's what it says on the bottle. If yes, what is the ingredient that is of interest here. Nizoral is rather pricey, I'm sure there are alternatives.

Thanks.

Edit: Just to add, my back is a bit itchy as well as my scalp. Don't think I've lost any hair so far, but would like to use the shampoo EOD to see if it reliefs some of the itch.

**sequal** · 04-15-2007, 11:06 AM

how do you know if your MPB Prone?

**JaCKeDuPD** · 04-25-2007, 02:21 PM

im balding as it is.... well ill jus say my hair is thinning out i was takin some arrimidex dun kno if that was a factor but i am bout to start test c / eq / and clens.... anything i can get to keep my hair from being lost or damaged and keep my scalp at normality?? thanks

**SNUKA** · 04-25-2007, 05:11 PM

Jackedupd did u not just read the 31 posts before yours?? whats with bumping these old threads?

**adude006** · 04-27-2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

DHT in large quantities causes Inflammation..
this is what cause HAIRLOSS, and ACNE..
...
Less DHT, = Less inflammation = better skin and hair.

Is it fixed that any substance which causes inflammation will lead to hairloss/acne? Asking coz i am taking x-factor by molecular nutrition which is suppose to cause inflammation (that's how it works) so I'm concerned if this is always true.