All gains go away after steroids?

**tryingtogain** · 03-24-2007, 06:03 AM

Hey guys. I dunno if any of you remember me but I was on this forum a few yrs ago but took some time off. Anyways I plan to start working out again.

I just have a dumb question. I heard that you loooze all the gains when you go off juice because your bodies natural testosterone cant support all that muscle growth. I know you loozse some mass but do you looze all the strength and muscle? I think this is false but just want to make sure.

**Atomini** · 03-24-2007, 06:12 AM

The only way you will lose everything is if you don't have your training or nutrition or both down properly. This is why we advocate that everyone have a solid base with a solid training and nutrition plan before starting steroids . If your training isnt hard enough or if it's overtraining, you're going to lose everything after coming off. If your diet is poor and not eating enough, you won't be making good gains (if any at all) when you're on the steroids.

The other way you lose everything is if you don't do your PCT properly.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 09:08 AM

Maintenance is much easier than change, remember?

You have to put in a much larger amount of effort to build 30 lbs. than to keep it. And provided that you keep working out/dieting hard, you should be able to keep the majority of it.

My stregth always suffers a bit, but I can usually maintain most of the wieght.....so far.

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by tryingtogain

Hey guys. I dunno if any of you remember me but I was on this forum a few yrs ago but took some time off. Anyways I plan to start working out again.

I just have a dumb question. I heard that you loooze all the gains when you go off juice because your bodies natural testosterone cant support all that muscle growth. I know you loozse some mass but do you looze all the strength and muscle? I think this is false but just want to make sure.

Take a look at the steroid profiles on the front page of www.steroid.com. There's a chart in there that displays (fairly accurately) what the degree of gains are from each drug and how easy it is to keep what you've gained.

That being said, Nandrolone , Masteron , Winstrol and Anavar are the easiest to keep gains off.

**jf18t** · 03-24-2007, 10:35 AM

new guys wishing to start using gears

**Johny-too-small** · 03-24-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Vinlander

Take a look at the steroid profiles on the front page of www.steroid.com. There's a chart in there that displays (fairly accurately) what the degree of gains are from each drug and how easy it is to keep what you've gained.

That being said, Nandrolone, Masteron, Winstrol and Anavar are the easiest to keep gains off.

Sorry, but wrong!!! Take test enan for example, it gets 1 star for "keep gains." Thats horsecrap and that chart is a joke.

With proper training, diet, pct, and rest, gains can be kept after almost any cycle.

**Booz** · 03-24-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Sorry, but wrong!!! Take test enan for example, it gets 1 star for "keep gains." Thats horsecrap and that chart is a joke.

With proper training, diet, pct, and rest, gains can be kept after almost any cycle.

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Sorry, but wrong!!! Take test enan for example, it gets 1 star for "keep gains." Thats horsecrap and that chart is a joke.

With proper training, diet, pct, and rest, gains can be kept after almost any cycle.

I suppose the same can be said of Dianabol , which also got a "1", but the chart is based on reported results, not your/my individual experiences with AAS.

More importantly, no one is claiming that everyone has the answers or that any chart is a bible: it's just a very useful guide.

**Johny-too-small** · 03-24-2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Vinlander

I suppose the same can be said of Dianabol , which also got a "1", but the chart is based on reported results, not your/my individual experiences with AAS.

More importantly, no one is claiming that everyone has the answers or that any chart is a bible: it's just a very useful guide.

Bro, dont believe everything you read. Just because its on the homepage doesn’t mean its even close to accurate. No experienced member here will back that chart up.

Think about it, to get an accurate chart like that you would need a pool of users who have cycled every individual compound by itself and then rate it on their personal experience (given that they all had the same training, diet, rest, etc). After amassing the data from hundreds of individuals, then you would have something to work with. Im sure that there are a few who have cycled everything under the sun, but I doubt that they did each compound individually.

That chart is an opinion on some very outdated data.

**vitor** · 03-24-2007, 11:30 AM

If you are far over your natrual potensial(b/c of drugs) there is only so much muscle you can hold with natrual testosterone levels ...

But there are things you can use which makes it alot easier, like GH, IGF, SLIN, AI etc.

**Schmidty** · 03-24-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by vitor

If you are far over your natrual potensial(b/c of drugs) there is only so much muscle you can hold with natrual testosterone levels ...

But there are things you can use which makes it alot easier, like GH, IGF, SLIN, AI etc.

I disagree with u their

**TheDfromGC** · 03-24-2007, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Bro, dont believe everything you read. Just because its on the homepage doesn’t mean its even close to accurate. No experienced member here will back that chart up.

Think about it, to get an accurate chart like that you would need a pool of users who have cycled every individual compound by itself and then rate it on their personal experience (given that they all had the same training, diet, rest, etc). After amassing the data from hundreds of individuals, then you would have something to work with. Im sure that there are a few who have cycled everything under the sun, but I doubt that they did each compound individually.

That chart is an opinion on some very outdated data.

im pretty sure that chart on the homesite has not been updated since i joined this board. seemed they kind of threw it together when the site was made then forgot about it.

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Bro, dont believe everything you read. Just because its on the homepage doesn’t mean its even close to accurate. No experienced member here will back that chart up.

Think about it, to get an accurate chart like that you would need a pool of users who have cycled every individual compound by itself and then rate it on their personal experience (given that they all had the same training, diet, rest, etc). After amassing the data from hundreds of individuals, then you would have something to work with. Im sure that there are a few who have cycled everything under the sun, but I doubt that they did each compound individually.

That chart is an opinion on some very outdated data.

The only reason we know D-bol-only doesn't work is because so many people do it.

That being said, have you tried a Test-E-only cycle? How do you know the gains you made/kept from it were not due to it being stacked with Deca or another AAS?

I'm not calling you a liar, here, but I would like to know your results from this Test-E cycle. It's the only way to be sure that you can actually keep most/all of your gains from it if you've gone solo with the drug.

**Atomini** · 03-24-2007, 02:16 PM

Who originally came up with that chart? I've seen the exact same chart readings EVERYWHERE i've seen the chart all over the place.

**Johny-too-small** · 03-24-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Vinlander

The only reason we know D-bol-only doesn't work is because so many people do it.

That being said, have you tried a Test-E-only cycle? How do you know the gains you made/kept from it were not due to it being stacked with Deca or another AAS?

I'm not calling you a liar, here, but I would like to know your results from this Test-E cycle. It's the only way to be sure that you can actually keep most/all of your gains from it if you've gone solo with the drug.

Are you reading these posts? Everyone here is saying the same damn thing I am.

**Snrf** · 03-24-2007, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Vinlander

The only reason we know D-bol-only doesn't work is because so many people do it.

That being said, have you tried a Test-E-only cycle? How do you know the gains you made/kept from it were not due to it being stacked with Deca or another AAS?

I'm not calling you a liar, here, but I would like to know your results from this Test-E cycle. It's the only way to be sure that you can actually keep most/all of your gains from it if you've gone solo with the drug.

who the hell is "we"?

I sure as hell am not part of it, I've got 3 of my friends on dbol only cycles right now. (they don't wanna inject) and though this board may have a serious parrot problem with dbol only cycles, I've seen people gain 20-25lbs and keep 12-17 quite happily off 25mg a day.

A 12-17 pound gain is pretty damn sweet. If that ain't working I don't know what is

**Pooks** · 03-24-2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogain

Hey guys. I dunno if any of you remember me but I was on this forum a few yrs ago but took some time off. Anyways I plan to start working out again.

I just have a dumb question. I heard that you loooze all the gains when you go off juice because your bodies natural testosterone cant support all that muscle growth. I know you loozse some mass but do you looze all the strength and muscle? I think this is false but just want to make sure.

IF you have no prior muscle mass, before doing your cycle, U are going to lose pretty much all you gains..

So workout naturally for a year, if u can pull that off, than give juice a try..

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

who the hell is "we"?

I sure as hell am not part of it, I've got 3 of my friends on dbol only cycles right now. (they don't wanna inject) and though this board may have a serious parrot problem with dbol only cycles, I've seen people gain 20-25lbs and keep 12-17 quite happily off 25mg a day.

A 12-17 pound gain is pretty damn sweet. If that ain't working I don't know what is

Over what period of time was that 12-17lb gain?

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Are you reading these posts? Everyone here is saying the same damn thing I am.

I didn't ask what everyone else said. I asked what the results of your Test-E-only cycle were.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:19 PM

Most of the compounds that have a reputation of "losing everything gained" are ones with a great deal of water retention. (For example, DBol .)

Since the majority of us don't consider water as "gains" then I fail to see how you're losing muscle.

Besides, this really has nothing to do with the original question, which is maintenance of "gains" off cycle.

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:22 PM

Perhaps you're right. Time for a new thread.

**briancb1** · 03-24-2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Vinlander

I didn't ask what everyone else said. I asked what the results of your Test-E-only cycle were.

I did an 11 week cycle of Test E only at 500mgs a week. 1-6 bulked, the last 5 I cut, and I've stayed cut. almost 2 weeks into my pct and I'm the exact same weight. Not doing major cals either, clean just above maint with some cardio.

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 04:53 PM

What are your current stats? Before and after cycle.

(Note: I am not here to disprove anyone's claims. If Test-E only is a good cycle and you can keep the gains, I would be very pleased.)

**Snrf** · 03-24-2007, 05:01 PM

vinlander, u've already been told...u can keep the gains from ANY cycle if your PCT is in order, and your post cycle training and diet are kept up.....

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

vinlander, u've already been told...u can keep the gains from ANY cycle if your PCT is in order, and your post cycle training and diet are kept up.....

Hence my point in the other thread.

I simply don't believe that "ability to keep gains" is something that is dependent on the particular steroid.

Natty hormones, diet, and training.

(And we're excluding other things like IGF and HGH).