Steroid Effectiveness

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:27 PM

Please read before replying:

There has been a small but recent discussion as to the effectiveness of each AAS in "keeping gains" after discontinuance of usage. According to the chart posted on the front of the website, drugs such as Dianabol and Testosterone Suspension lose their gains (presumably because most are just water-retention) immediately or soon after cycle completion/PCT.

My question is this:

How many of you have tried a cycle in a non-stacking environment (Testosterone-only, Masteron-only, Winstrol-only, etc.) and what were your results?

If you have not tried them individually, please do not post an opinion on this thread for each drug. I am not looking for "parrotted" information, but first-hand accounts.

**Snrf** · 03-24-2007, 03:28 PM

lol @ "testosterone suspension ate"

**mcmajor** · 03-24-2007, 03:33 PM

Myogenx from Protein Factor, used with Creatine and Beta-Alanine is excellent!..you wont be disapoointed.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:35 PM

I have not...however I do feel it neccessary to make a few points.

It's important to understand how each steroid works. How does it build muscle? How does it add weight? What is the intended purpose of the drug?

Hence why running drugs that highly androgenic , many choose to include other drugs that build muscle via different mechanisms.

For instance, obviously we can't say the Dbol is "only water" becuase of its ability to increase protein synthesis and reduce catabolism. Add training and food and you have muscle growth. Hence why dbol only cycles "work".

**Atomini** · 03-24-2007, 03:42 PM

What I would like to know exactly is what the charts are based on. On studies? On the actual properties of the steroids ?

I don't get it. And who originally came up with that chart we see everywhere posted on every steroid site and forum?

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:44 PM

That would be useful information, though I doubt anybody wants to attach their name to "how to use steroids for illegal purposes and which ones are best." Although I'd like to know the guy's name, I'd hope he's smart enough to not give it out.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:45 PM

I think what I'm trying to say that I don't think "ability to hold gains" should be a characteristic of a steroid .

Water retention, natural hormones, nutrients, training, and auxillary drugs like HGH and IGF are bigger factors.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

What I would like to know exactly is what the charts are based on. On studies? On the actual properties of the steroids?
I don't get it. And who originally came up with that chart we see everywhere posted on every steroid site and forum?

Well, to some degree, us. The same place where we learned that Deca and EQ are the same thing.

Look at how many people said, "YOU'LL LOOSE EVERYTHING WITH DBOL !"

Solidifying gains? What the **** does that mean?

I think Bajan said it best..."Brotelligence"

**Titleist** · 03-24-2007, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

What I would like to know exactly is what the charts are based on. On studies? On the actual properties of the steroids ?

I don't get it. And who originally came up with that chart we see everywhere posted on every steroid site and forum?

Honestly I think that one person made that chart, not using studies. The person probably researched these AAS, but made the decision on each steroid 's effectiveness on his own, without studies. JMHO

What would be nice is a new chart based on research & multiple studies, as well as a knowledgable person/people to put it together. However, I doubt that will happen.

**Atomini** · 03-24-2007, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

Water retention, natural hormones, nutrients, training, and auxillary drugs like HGH and IGF are bigger factors.

I was just going to mention that. And also highly dependant on your PCT. If you have a shitty PCT (or no PCT at all) planned out, you will lose most or everything you gained.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Titleist

Honestly I think that one person made that chart, not using studies. The person probably researched these AAS, but made the decision on each steroid 's effectiveness on his own, without studies. JMHO

What would be nice is a new chart based on research & multiple studies, as well as a knowledgable person/people to put it together. However, I doubt that will happen.

Mr. Roberts wrote a book...????

**Vinlander** · 03-24-2007, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Titleist

Honestly I think that one person made that chart, not using studies. The person probably researched these AAS, but made the decision on each steroid 's effectiveness on his own, without studies. JMHO

What would be nice is a new chart based on research & multiple studies, as well as a knowledgable person/people to put it together. However, I doubt that will happen.

That would be the optimum situation, yes.

**Titleist** · 03-24-2007, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

Mr. Roberts wrote a book...????

Nvm I see what you are saying. Yeah no shit he wrote a book. I was simply referring to the chart on steroid .com. It would be nice if that was replaced with something more substantial.

**fLgAtOr** · 03-24-2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Titleist

Are you saying Anthony wrote the chart?

No I'm saying he wrote a book with the assistance of this board.

He used actual medical studies as well as a great deal of feedback from members here.

**Atomini** · 03-24-2007, 03:54 PM

I've seen it in multiple steroid books, ebooks, websites, forums.... it's quite popular. Maybe he did write it?

I think a good idea would be if the AR community gathered collaborated in creating a new chart based on actual practical knowlege and on any studies that may be out there (if there are any).

**steph-on360** · 03-25-2007, 09:35 AM

i've done a 25 days of d-bol at 40 mg/day and got a good 15 lbs, i kept a 9 lbs of muscle. don't know why everyone says You GONNA LOOSE IT ALL. Eat right and train hard while on and it will work well. Also i've done winstrol tabs only and got a solid 5 lbs of hard muscle, got a nice ripped look on it.

**ghostdog128** · 03-25-2007, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

For instance, obviously we can't say the Dbol is "only water" becuase of its ability to increase protein synthesis and reduce catabolism. Add training and food and you have muscle growth. Hence why dbol only cycles "work".

WOW, It's good to see that people are actually thinking rather than relying on brotelligence.. I've been trying to tell people this for years that a dbol only cycle works or that you won't lose everything because what you have gained is more than just water. Although I don't advocate it.. Dbol only still works and works great. Like you have just said above, obviously dbol increase protein synthesis combines with good dieting and WO's will gain some real LBM, not just water.

To the original poster, I think what happens alot of times including my own personal observations of friends is that their idea of mass gain isn't realistic and they don't have a true grasp of the mass they are gaining. Most truly think that the 25lbs they just gained is all LBM so when they lose 15lbs of it or more they go with the common assumption that Dbol only or test susp gains are only water gains and will be lost PC. I think if people would use an AI on highly aromatizing gear couple with a realistic goal of actual and attainable LBM from a cycle then these myths wouldn't keep getting perpetuated.

**helium3** · 03-25-2007, 11:18 AM

ive just done a deca only cycle with a dbol kick for the first 2 weeks.
i was carb depleted before the cycle and also running clen .i started the cycle at 14st 6lbs(after a weightloss of around16lbs)i crept up to 15st on the first 2weeks,by the 3rd week i was up to 15st 6lbs stopped the dbol and dropped back to 15st then the weight began to climb again right upto 15st 12lbs by the end of week 6,then i didnt gain anything.after that i stayed on another 2 weeks.upto week 9 then came off.i started hcg a week b4 pct and ran it for 3 weeks total.i started the rest of my pct including nolva at the 3rd week of my last shot.my weight slowly dropped down to 15st 3lbs and has held there ever since,i have another week of pct and ill see how things are then.

i was very pleased with the cycle and especially when i realised i gained no fat at all infact i lost some bf according too my belt size lol.gains from deca are very lean compared to test,and i guess they should be when u compare how much they aromatise to estrogen or progesterone.all in all i gained 11lbs of lean mass while losing some bf.id call that a success.

cycle was:

dbol 20mgs daily for 2 weeks
nandrolone decanate 600mg per week for 9 weeks
i frontloaded 1000mg of deca the first week,would have done 1200 but i didnt wanna put anymore oil in me LOL.

no signs of gyno,no real feeling of blood pressure.no labido isssues even going in to pct,recovery has been a little slower than with test but that was to be expected.

**NewVader** · 03-25-2007, 04:29 PM

I have done primo only, anavar only and test only.

1 if you have water retention from aas you will not keep that after use is discontinued and you will loose part of your gains (higd dose of test, dbol ect)

2 for the primo only or anavar only cycle you keep almos all the pounds gained,
HOWEVER there is a ceirtain hard look and vascularity, that is not related to mass or poundage, and after yo u stop you will loose that look.

bottom line, you won't look on steroids when you are off, but you will have more mass than when you started if done properly

**Vinlander** · 04-02-2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by NewVader

I have done primo only, anavar only and test only.

1 if you have water retention from aas you will not keep that after use is discontinued and you will loose part of your gains (higd dose of test, dbol ect)

2 for the primo only or anavar only cycle you keep almos all the pounds gained,
HOWEVER there is a ceirtain hard look and vascularity, that is not related to mass or poundage, and after yo u stop you will loose that look.

bottom line, you won't look on steroids when you are off, but you will have more mass than when you started if done properly

What effects did you notice from the test-only cycle? Did you get the typical acne and aggression people speak of? What about the pumps, post-cycle? Was there any reduced strength?