Cycle's Final Look...

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 12:03 PM

Alright, this is the cycle I will be doing in a couple weeks. I've adjusted it as much as possible, and I think this is the best so far.

Weeks 1-10 = Test Enanthate @ 300mg(first 4 injections) - 200mg / 4 days
Weeks 8-12 = Winny @ 50mg/day (liquid version but drinking)
Weeks 9-12 = T3 (Cytomel ) @ 25mcg and up (depending on tolerance)
Weeks 13+ = Clomid (usual therapy)

Nolvadex on hand

I think this is a pretty good first time cycle. Not only will I add some muscle mass, near the end, I will be shedding some fat, cause I got plenty of it

What ya'll think???

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 12:36 PM

With school starting and me living at home with the parents, it would be much too hard for me to inject Winny everyday! I will give it some thought, but I doubt I will inject.

Yes, the Enanthate is being front loaded at 300mg/4 days for the first 4 injections.

**PaPaPumP** · 08-07-2002, 12:42 PM

Looks good bro. Have you checked out C.O.'s post on T3? Your probly have but just in case.

If you got injectable, shoot it one day, drink next....

When you get used to shots and the procedures, the whole "grabbing the vials, swabbing, swabbing again, changing pins, cleaning site...etc" will not take more than 5 min. You can spare that....

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 12:53 PM

thnx for the info papa!

do u think i could actually do that? inject one day/drink next day? cause that might not be too bad

what's good for winny? 25g? 28g? i'm not a big fan of spot injections

quads i will only use for the test, and i guess the winny can go delts/calfs/bi's ???

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 12:54 PM

C.O?

can u post link? i prbbly did reasd it though

thnx

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 05:18 PM

What do you guys INJECT your winny with? Needles I mean. I could use a 28 right? Winny is water based, easy shit?

**JP1570** · 08-07-2002, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Diesel

28g is fine. Winny is very easy to inject because it is water based. After all those weeks of injecting oil, you will be surprised how much easier the water base goes in.

HAte to disagree with you here bro, but I always found winny to be a pain to inject. If I let mine sit in the syringe for a minute, it would separate a lot. I guess it depends a lot on the brand. I hope you have some 50mg/ml stuff like Jurox and not TT 100mg/ml winny.

***Sicilian30*** · 08-07-2002, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Diesel

28g is fine. Winny is very easy to inject because it is water based. After all those weeks of injecting oil, you will be surprised how much easier the water base goes in.

Diesel is right on, took the words right out of my mouth. I have one question though Ter? I don't quite understand what you mean by
Weeks 1-10 = Test Enanthate @ 300mg(first 4 injections) - 200mg / 4 days?
I am doing t 3 and a cycle very similar to this right now, except I am doing dbol for the first 4 weeks then add winny the last 4. I love t 3, man, talk about make you sweat.. whew.. Man i am ringing my pants out by the end of the day, and I have an AC job.. Stuff works great for me. I am cycleing down my t 3 and probally gonna jump on some clen after that, until it is time for my winny. I am bloating big time from teh dbol and I am only doing 35mg a day. Better hope you don't bloat like I am, from the test. I think I am gonna start taking my armidex, to hopefully keep some of the bloating down as well until I can start my winny.
Let me know what you get from the T 3, btw do you have the liquid or the tabs (t 3 that is)?

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by JP1570

HAte to disagree with you here bro, but I always found winny to be a pain to inject. If I let mine sit in the syringe for a minute, it would separate a lot. I guess it depends a lot on the brand. I hope you have some 50mg/ml stuff like Jurox and not TT 100mg/ml winny.

I have some underground Canadian juice, it's 100mg/ml, what do you mean by "separate" like the water and the winny? Do you have to shake the Winny before you withdraw into needle? My Winny is kinda similar with Spectro (so i've been told).

**Terinox** · 08-07-2002, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Sicilian30

Diesel is right on, took the words right out of my mouth. I have one question though Ter? I don't quite understand what you mean by
Weeks 1-10 = Test Enanthate @ 300mg(first 4 injections) - 200mg / 4 days?
I am doing t 3 and a cycle very similar to this right now, except I am doing dbol for the first 4 weeks then add winny the last 4. I love t 3, man, talk about make you sweat.. whew.. Man i am ringing my pants out by the end of the day, and I have an AC job.. Stuff works great for me. I am cycleing down my t 3 and probally gonna jump on some clen after that, until it is time for my winny. I am bloating big time from teh dbol and I am only doing 35mg a day. Better hope you don't bloat like I am, from the test. I think I am gonna start taking my armidex, to hopefully keep some of the bloating down as well until I can start my winny.
Let me know what you get from the T 3, btw do you have the liquid or the tabs (t 3 that is)?

What I mean is that the FIRST four injections that I do, which are also every 4 days, will be at 300mg which is basically like a front load. The rest of my injections will be at 200mg every 4 days, till the 10 weeks is up.

I will be getting the pill form of Cytomel . They are 50mcg per pill. Which is weird cause i'm gonna have to split them up into FOUR!!!

**JP1570** · 08-07-2002, 10:17 PM

I mean that water based gear like winny is a suspension, not a solution and it settles or separates fairly quickly. 100mg of winny are suspended in each ml of water. It is not as thick as oil based gear in general, but I found it harder to shoot, it would get stuck in the needle, so I had to use a 23g.
Then again, I used some tt 100mg/ml winny, which is regarded by a lot of people as one of the worst on the market, IMHO jurox makes a much better product. Anyway, like I said, I had to use a larger needle, but if a 28g works for you, then go for it.

***Sicilian30*** · 08-07-2002, 10:36 PM

Wow 23 gauge to shoot winny? Daummm.. must have been some thick azz chit..
Anyway Ter, why do you want to do the test that way? Any particular reason? I mean why not start with the 400 mg a week instead of the 300???
Yeah that is weird the Cytomel usually comes in 25 mg I think? I have the liquid so I am not sure. Wow 50mg? Whew, that is gonna be hard to split, well to get the accurate mg per setting I should say..
I saw a pill spliter in wally world the other day, may want to go pick one up, may help you. I know that splittin winny pills is a biotch, cause they are soo damn small. I may go see if that pill spliter will work for that. I will be starting my winny in about 6 more weeks, and I will have to break them up.
I think you are gonna love t 3, I mean I know how you didn't see much with the Clen , but with the t 3, you will definately see something. If not you will sweat like a mule, and if that don't make you feel like you are loosing fat nothing will. I have been on Cytomel for about 11/2 and I can already tell I am loosing body fat. Course the dbol I am on is bloating the hell out of me, and I can't imagine what it would be like if I weren't doing t 3.. whew..
good luck my brutha.. Keep us up to date on your progress.
BTW some injectable winny stings like a biotch too. cause it is water based. SO I would possibly consider mixing it with your other gear. But try it, first by itself, see if it stings, I didn't see or maybe I missed which brand of winny you have???

**thegame01** · 08-07-2002, 10:59 PM

cant give you advice on the cycle as i have no personal experince and plus you have been reading up on it a little longer than me . just wanted to say good luck and it's about time hehe,you have been talking about your cycle for a while . Hey better to be educated and ready right then to mess it all up . let us know how it goes bro

**Terinox** · 08-08-2002, 02:47 AM

Well, if the Winny is gonna seperate then maybe I should just drink it, I don't want any complications with needles, etc. By the way, can I shake the bottle? Or is that a no no with juice?

Sicilian, i'm just doing that little extra bit in the beginning as a front loading. No real reason, just to get it in my system faster. I was told it helps. Plus, since it's my first, I don't need too much. It comes out to be about 550mg first two weeks and like 350mg the rest of the 10 weeks. But broken up to injections every 4 days.

I don't have the Winny yet, will be getting it soon. It's underground company, new, based in Ontario, Canada. Very similar to Spectro Labs, but better.

Thnx for the kind words "thegame01" i will def. keep ya'll updated, and take lots of pics.

I'm off for now

***Sicilian30*** · 08-08-2002, 07:14 AM

Okie dokie, BTW you can shake the winny, it will seperate, but just a good shake to mix it up again, and you are good to go. I would do as pappa says, inject one day, drink the next.
I didn't see any anti esters on your cycle? test Enth, converts to estrogen very easily, and may bloat you. Might be a good idea to have some anti esters around just in case.

**Japan man** · 08-08-2002, 08:05 AM

prepare to lose alot of hard earned muscle during T3. If you runnning it alone you will lose shit loads of LBM. actually cutting immediately after a bulk, is counter productive. i would wait till after clomid, otherwise you wont get your desired effects. IMO.

***Pheedno*** · 08-08-2002, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Diesel
Plus, injecting it allows it to run through your liver once. Oral will pass through the liver twice.

How does it pass through the liver twice?

***Pheedno*** · 08-08-2002, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Diesel

Let me see if I can find the medical study I read about it a while back and shoot it to you bro.

Been a while so it may take me a bit to find it.

I had heard something about it to. I can definately see how the harshness would increase with oral administration. It just seems like if the Winny goes through twice, all the supps, vits, and minerals we get from food would do the same.
I guess it would have to do something with Winny itself and not a regular process of the liver.
I'd be very interested if you could locate that info. Thanks in advance!

**Terinox** · 08-08-2002, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Sicilian30
Okie dokie, BTW you can shake the winny, it will seperate, but just a good shake to mix it up again, and you are good to go. I would do as pappa says, inject one day, drink the next.
I didn't see any anti esters on your cycle? test Enth, converts to estrogen very easily, and may bloat you. Might be a good idea to have some anti esters around just in case.

Well I have Nolvadex , and I hope that should be enough, and I think it will be, plus my Enanthate isn't too high of a dose.

Yeah, i'm really thinking about that drink one day, inject the next, it sounds good.

**Terinox** · 08-08-2002, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Japan man
prepare to lose alot of hard earned muscle during T3. If you runnning it alone you will lose shit loads of LBM. actually cutting immediately after a bulk, is counter productive. i would wait till after clomid, otherwise you wont get your desired effects. IMO.

What??? See this is were I get confused. A lot of people told me that running it similar to what CYCLEON posted in the Educational Threads, WITHOUT taking it with any juice, they didn't lose ANY muscle mass, just body fat. PLUS, i AM taking it with juice. Now what's wrong with doing it near the end of the Test Enanthate cycle? Other people don't seem to think this is too bad.

Have you actually had some first hand experience? It would really help if you could tell me what happened when you tried it. Also, I have enough to do it with THIS cycle, and to also do another "cutting" cycle during the Spring.

***Sicilian30*** · 08-08-2002, 02:40 PM

Ter, I am running t 3 right now on a dbol and t 200 cycle, I have not lost any muscle, in fact, I wondered if my chit was legit, because I wasn't loosing any weight. But it is the dbol that is bloating me, therefore, I couldn't tell, but I knew it was real when I was sweating like a mule after I would take it. Dont' worry about loosing muscle, as long as you are doing your gear, then you are cool. Eat plenty of protein, and keep training.
Also FWI, I hear that the Clen with Kett works great. I think I am going to try some after my cycle. I will let you know how it works. the reason I said this is because I know you were very disappointed with Clen a few months ago. I was too, but I found the more I would cycle it, the better it worked. Don't ask me why, but it did. But then again, I did the two day on two day off cycle, not the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. IMO I don't think that is long enough to run Clen to see any positive results. If you run 2 days on 2 days off, you can run clen for a month without causing any receptor downgrading. I ran it for a month this way and got great results. I can't wait to try to Clen/Ket mix.

**Terinox** · 08-08-2002, 09:45 PM

Hehe, you've got a good memory Sicilian30, yeah, I was disappointed with the Clen , maybe I was missing something. And Ketotifen sounds good, I will try and get my hands on some for the spring time, might do it right after my Winny + T3 cycle (around March).

***Sicilian30*** · 08-08-2002, 10:15 PM

well Ter remember I kept on responding to your clen thread?? How could you forget??

**Terinox** · 08-08-2002, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Sicilian30
well Ter remember I kept on responding to your clen thread?? How could you forget??

Hehe, no no, I haven't forgotten yet. I just thought, you know, you being older and all...hahaha, just kidding

Well I sure hope to lose quite a lot of fat! I'll try both the T3 and the Clen + Ket and see what happens

***Sicilian30*** · 08-09-2002, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Terinox

Hehe, no no, I haven't forgotten yet. I just thought, you know, you being older and all...hahaha, just kidding

Well I sure hope to lose quite a lot of fat! I'll try both the T3 and the Clen + Ket and see what happens

Hey hey watch the older cracks now.. LOL Yeah I can't wait to try some.. I want those rock hard abs like Jason..

**AZlifter** · 08-09-2002, 09:41 AM

Sicilian30,

How did you run the clen when you did it 2 days on 2 days off? I mean did you work your way up to your max dose (i.e. 2,2, off,off ,3,3 ,off,off, 4,4, off,off, etc.) until you reached 140mcg (well, if you reached i should say)? What else did you use with your clen? Did you taper back down when you decided to stop and how long could you do this for before your receptors begin to downgrade?

Ha ha

Sorry bout all the questions but that idea sounds logical to me.

Thanks bro for any help!
AZ

***Sicilian30*** · 08-09-2002, 01:35 PM

Good Question AZ, I did just as you said, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 start tapering back down, etc. I would cycle up then cycle back down again. Did it for a month just like that, was very effective. I cycled Clen for a month, then got off of it, and went to an ECA stack. I talked to another person who had a sucessful stack with the 2 days on 2 days off, and he said he used ECA along with the clen on the days he was off, and he got awesome results. They say never use ECA stack while using Clen, but with the 2 days on 2 days off, you can, and get the maximum results from clen and the eca stack. The next go round I am gonna try that. I mean hell, everyone says do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, then go to an ECA stack, with the 2 days on 2 days off cycle you can run both for long periods of time at the same time..

**AZlifter** · 08-09-2002, 02:14 PM

Sicilian30--Bro what were your results from doing clen 2 days on 2 day off ? Did you lose a good amount of bf?

AZ

***Sicilian30*** · 08-09-2002, 04:59 PM

I dropped from 13% to about 11%, I don't know exactly because I did the cheap bf testing at my gym. However, it took me a few cycles to see it working. IN other words, I would cycle clen for a month lay off for a few weeks, cycle back on for a month then get off, etc. I am dying to try the clen/Keto mix, I hear that is some great stuff!!!!