Sudden sharp chest pains with Clen

**Mike Dura** · 04-16-2007, 05:53 PM

I went up to 140mcg and I have to say I love that stimulated clen feeling. Tremmers were slight but my heart really raced. My resting HR before bed was 80. The cross trainers I used don't have hr monitors but I can imagine that it was very high.

At the end of my two week cycle I experienced an uncomfortable tightness in my chest that went on for hours. And during cardio today, I had these sudden sharp pains in my heart. I'm thinking, can the clen and stick with the T3.

**ebjack** · 04-16-2007, 06:10 PM

Mike...I would serously think about getting an EKG done..tightness is not good..and I know those sharp pains would get my attention

we are not spring chickens anymore

**BigMike J** · 04-16-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

I went up to 140mcg and I have to say I love that stimulated clen feeling. Tremmers were slight but my heart really raced. My resting HR before bed was 80. The cross trainers I used don't have hr monitors but I can imagine that it was very high.

At the end of my two week cycle I experienced an uncomfortable tightness in my chest that went on for hours. And during cardio today, I had these sudden sharp pains in my heart. I'm thinking, can the clen and stick with the T3.

You should get seen by a Cardiologist asap. If you are not already doing it take an asprin.

**Mike Dura** · 04-16-2007, 07:04 PM

We may not be but that chick in your avatar is! Lol! Don't remind me that I'm old bro - I'm trying to maintain this state of denial! I'm going to make an appointment. Dispite the tight feeling in my chest, that same day I did a half hour of cardio and today, I did 1.5 hours of cardio with another half an hour after I leave my office here. That may sound crazy to you but for some irrational reason, I just have to.

Originally Posted by ebjack

Mike...I would serously think about getting an EKG done..tightness is not good..and I know those sharp pains would get my attention

we are not spring chickens anymore

**ebjack** · 04-16-2007, 07:08 PM

let us know what the doc says when you go

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

We may not be but that chick in your avatar is! Lol! Don't remind me that I'm old bro - I'm trying to maintain this state of denial! I'm going to make an appointment. Dispite the tight feeling in my chest, that same day I did a half hour of cardio and today, I did 1.5 hours of cardio with another half an hour after I leave my office here. That may sound crazy to you but for some irrational reason, I just have to.

**Mike Dura** · 04-16-2007, 07:14 PM

I will. I never had a problem like this with ECA (although the heart raced a bit with that). No more clen .

Originally Posted by ebjack

let us know what the doc says when you go

**majorpecs** · 04-17-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

I went up to 140mcg and I have to say I love that stimulated clen feeling. Tremmers were slight but my heart really raced. My resting HR before bed was 80. The cross trainers I used don't have hr monitors but I can imagine that it was very high.

At the end of my two week cycle I experienced an uncomfortable tightness in my chest that went on for hours. And during cardio today, I had these sudden sharp pains in my heart. I'm thinking, can the clen and stick with the T3.

A friend of mine who was 22 at the time, had a heart attack on his 3rd day of clen, and his dose was about 200mcg

**Mike Dura** · 04-17-2007, 05:19 PM

Wow. Yeah, clen is serious stuff. 200 mcg is quite a bit. For me, 140 seemed to be too much. Maybe if I stuck at 100. I can get ripped without it. It seemed like I tolerated ECA better which is counter-intuitive.

Originally Posted by majorpecs

A friend of mine who was 22 at the time, had a heart attack on his 3rd day of clen, and his dose was about 200mcg

**Tbone1975** · 04-17-2007, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

We may not be but that chick in your avatar is! Lol! Don't remind me that I'm old bro - I'm trying to maintain this state of denial! I'm going to make an appointment. Dispite the tight feeling in my chest, that same day I did a half hour of cardio and today, I did 1.5 hours of cardio with another half an hour after I leave my office here. That may sound crazy to you but for some irrational reason, I just have to.

Probably your way of saying, "screw this sh*t, I ain't havin' a heart attack today." Props. But I'm very glad you're going in to the doc and I hope everything turns out all right for you. Good luck Mike, be careful.

**timtim** · 04-17-2007, 06:04 PM

just something to look at. clen is crap in my opinion and not worth the cv effects.

Low Dose Clen Induces Cardiac Apoptosis (cell death of heart cells)
Originaly posted by nandi on CM board.

It's been known for some time that Clenbuterol at high doses causes cardiac necrosis. This study in animals shows that doses of 1 mcg/kg BW induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) in heart tissue. Humans not uncommonly ingest this much Clen. For instance, in a 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder this translates to 100 mcg. The CEM store sells Clen at a concentration of 200 mcg/ml! Other UG labs sell it at similar concentrations, ranging from 100 to 200 mcg per ml.

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, Clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of Clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after Clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of Clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by Clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

**Mike Dura** · 04-17-2007, 07:18 PM

Thanks bro. Honestly, I had reservations about clen from the get go but I wanted to be more radical this year than ever. Funny thing is, ECA is supposed to be worse as far as sides go but I did better with ephedrine. No heart pains atleast.

Originally Posted by Tbone1975

Probably your way of saying, "screw this sh*t, I ain't havin' a heart attack today." Props. But I'm very glad you're going in to the doc and I hope everything turns out all right for you. Good luck Mike, be careful.

**Mike Dura** · 04-17-2007, 07:21 PM

The problem here is one of generalizability. Can we generalize from a rat to a human? From what I've read, animals in general have more receptor sites for this stuff so the comparison is not appropriate.

Originally Posted by timtim

just something to look at. clen is crap in my opinion and not worth the cv effects.

Low Dose Clen Induces Cardiac Apoptosis (cell death of heart cells)
Originaly posted by nandi on CM board.

It's been known for some time that Clenbuterol at high doses causes cardiac necrosis. This study in animals shows that doses of 1 mcg/kg BW induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) in heart tissue. Humans not uncommonly ingest this much Clen. For instance, in a 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder this translates to 100 mcg. The CEM store sells Clen at a concentration of 200 mcg/ml! Other UG labs sell it at similar concentrations, ranging from 100 to 200 mcg per ml.

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, Clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of Clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after Clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of Clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by Clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.

**bor** · 04-18-2007, 03:41 PM

I always do better with ECA also - better kick and better results!

Clen just makes my head hurt and hands shake, no kick for the morning cardio at all comparing to the ECA, and the fat loss is faaaaaar less then with ECA!

Hows the heart issue - did you check it out? - stay safe brother

You already look loke a frakin' ripped monster - no need to take things to dangerous levels for such stupid sh!t......

**Vinlander** · 04-18-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

Wow. Yeah, clen is serious stuff. 200 mcg is quite a bit. For me, 140 seemed to be too much. Maybe if I stuck at 100. I can get ripped without it. It seemed like I tolerated ECA better which is counter-intuitive.

What you're taking is just as extreme as 200mcg. You should really be seeing a cardiologist regularly if you're messing with a drug which has side-effects related to "necrosis of the heart" in "lab rats". Be careful and good luck!!!