Losing hair...

**Blooddraine** · 05-03-2007, 11:03 PM

Guys a friend of mine is taking test e and winny... he is starting to lose his hair and is only 22 years old... ive heard some ppl on hear talking about stuff you can take for this what was it called??? sorry if this has been asked a million times over its just really important.

**Titleist** · 05-03-2007, 11:06 PM

Dutastride or Propecia?

**gooer** · 05-03-2007, 11:13 PM

take dutas (dutastride) from ar-r .com or another research chemical site. or even a prescription pill site, it's not that hard to get.

first off - cut the winny - that's a horse steroid and is gonna cause hair loss no matter what, besides if he just takes test and has a reasonable work out plan/diet he'll lose the fat no matter what.

natural alternative to winny = treadmill.

if 'your friend' stops his cycle most likely the hair will all grow back. if he continues the test cycle while taking duta he's still gonna lose some but most of it will regrow when he gets off.

in my experience..

**Blooddraine** · 05-03-2007, 11:25 PM

dam now i feel like an ass cuz i recommended the winny.... whats the dosage on that??

**hugovsilva** · 05-04-2007, 05:00 AM

Dutasteride or finasteride for the test.
Topical spiro and Nizoral shampoo for the winny.

**JaCKeDuPD** · 05-04-2007, 07:30 AM

hugo... will dutastreride help u if ur taking letro with test?? how are the sides?

**TCGypsy** · 05-04-2007, 07:50 AM

Stopping the Winstrol is not the answer.

Winny is derived from DHT, but that does not make it the culprit. It is tolerated quite well, and has a higher anabolic :androgenic ratio than testosterone . Testosterone at body-building levels can quickly cause side effects as you all know, one of them being hair-loss especially if you are prone to male pattern baldness. I have found that testosterone by itself is OK; stacking a more anabolic compound with testosterone always produces better results IMHO.

There are a couple things he can do about it. Most docs will prescribe finasteride (Proscar/Propecia) which acts to block testosterone to DHT conversion by interfering with the alpha-5 reductase enzyme. The other thing one could do would be to INCREASE the Winny and DECREASE the Testosterone (or do that and get finasteride). In future cycles, I would take this into account and plan accordingly. Not all anabolic agents convert to DHT which is what causes the hair loss side effect.

'Nuff Said"

Peace,

TCG

**Dog-Slime** · 05-04-2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by TCGypsy

Stopping the Winstrol is not the answer.

Winny is derived from DHT, but that does not make it the culprit. It is tolerated quite well, and has a higher anabolic :androgenic ratio than testosterone . Testosterone at body-building levels can quickly cause side effects as you all know, one of them being hair-loss especially if you are prone to male pattern baldness. I have found that testosterone by itself is OK; stacking a more anabolic compound with testosterone always produces better results IMHO.

There are a couple things he can do about it. Most docs will prescribe finasteride (Proscar/Propecia) which acts to block testosterone to DHT conversion by interfering with the alpha-5 reductase enzyme. The other thing one could do would be to INCREASE the Winny and DECREASE the Testosterone (or do that and get finasteride). In future cycles, I would take this into account and plan accordingly. Not all anabolic agents convert to DHT which is what causes the hair loss side effect.

'Nuff Said"

Peace,

TCG

IMO this is horrible advice... Winny is pretty well known to me to cause hairloss in most guys that are succeptible. He can try some nizoral and spiro as somone above mentioned but if it is falling out fast I would drop the winny.

**hugovsilva** · 05-04-2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by TCGypsy

Stopping the Winstrol is not the answer.

Winny is derived from DHT, but that does not make it the culprit. It is tolerated quite well, and has a higher anabolic :androgenic ratio than testosterone . Testosterone at body-building levels can quickly cause side effects as you all know, one of them being hair-loss especially if you are prone to male pattern baldness. I have found that testosterone by itself is OK; stacking a more anabolic compound with testosterone always produces better results IMHO.

There are a couple things he can do about it. Most docs will prescribe finasteride (Proscar/Propecia) which acts to block testosterone to DHT conversion by interfering with the alpha-5 reductase enzyme. The other thing one could do would be to INCREASE the Winny and DECREASE the Testosterone (or do that and get finasteride). In future cycles, I would take this into account and plan accordingly. Not all anabolic agents convert to DHT which is what causes the hair loss side effect.

'Nuff Said"

Peace,

TCG

This is not true.

The fact that winny is not too androgenic may be misleading, letting you think that it is safe regarding hairloss.
I don't know a single person prone to mpb that has not lost hair on winny, me included. I found that Nizoral shampoo and mostly topical spiro help a lot though.

After a lot of research on steroids and hairloss, and some real life examples, I am inclined to think that the most important feature for an hormone to accelerate or not a pre-existing condition is its structure and not its androgenic nature.

**nalbano34** · 05-04-2007, 11:20 AM

The only issues that I have ever had with anabolics was when taking winny....that stuff is the devil.

**Blooddraine** · 05-04-2007, 02:53 PM

but i dont get it... assuming he doesnt take the stuff will his hair grow back after pct?? i think he has planned a nolva and aromasin pct...

**JMC** · 05-04-2007, 04:05 PM

i doubt the hair will grow back....but anything is possible

**SNUKA** · 05-04-2007, 05:29 PM

sounds like me when i was younger i decided to run winny without doing much research and thinking about hairloss i was so concerned with other sides like gyno i overlooked it. i started to thin and some of it started to fall out mainly on the vertex and in the front. i started using nizoral and this helped thicken up my hair which masked its thiness. i then started to take finasteride and in a couple of weeks i noticed my hair improved a descent amount i seemed to gain some more hair in the front of my head and a little bit on the vertex. now im on fina or duta for life to keep what i have, im going to stick to test only cycles and maybe throw in some tbol down the road this sucks cause i really like winny, but not a horse shoe head at a young age

**beardy** · 05-04-2007, 05:38 PM

So wait im totally confused....i have done some cycles of winny in the past....i have started to notice a hairline problem....if i start taking the propecia will it start to regenerate the hair....or does it only help while your on the winny.....im taking fina and prop right now......i dont know much about the hair prevention stuff so school me?

**TCGypsy** · 05-05-2007, 07:50 PM

Never said it was "safe."

However, one should always look at the entire stack, not just one component. A lot of stacks have a considerable amount testosterone in them, and can coss hair loss pretty fast due to the conversion to DHT.

I was merely pointing out that you need to look at the entire stack, not just one component.

Winnie is the devil? I think not.

My "friend" used it extensively in NCAA sports that required speed and strength without the bulk. Every steroid has it's own pros and cons. Finasteride is still my basic advice, and would be for anyone on testosterone or any other steroid that has the potential for hair loss if you are susceptible.

Peace,

TCG

**Pooks** · 05-05-2007, 11:09 PM

You don't need DHT to lose hair. When you spike your Testosterone levels by 5,000% (according to bloodwork i've seen done, while on a cycle). DHT is 30 times more binding the Testosterone , so A really heavy dose of testosterone will do damage to your hairline.

I wish i had more personal experience with hair products to chime in with, but I am still compiling information in that area.

I have been on Dutasteride now 2.5 lbs... so I should be in the "shedding" period right now...

I have been shedding but the shedding somewhat but that has gone for the last month now maybe.. I have been on cycle for the last month also.

There are a lot of androgen receptors already built into the scalp from previous cycles.. the more cycles we run the more androgen receptors the body forms. That means that once the process of male pattern balding is started it will be hard to stop it. Especially if dosing high amounts of testosterone.

but we shall see..
I will also note that I have been using nizoral as a body wash, and I have not seen any acne at all 5 weeks into a test prop cycle. I also have to mention that I did take accutane last summer, and that might have a part to play in that too. We'll see how nizoral handles PCT.

**peteroy01** · 05-06-2007, 12:16 AM

how high of a "high dose" are we talking here?

**Pooks** · 05-06-2007, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by peteroy01

how high of a "high dose" are we talking here?

Due to lack of completely understanding, The answer is going to be pretty broad. It definitely varies from person to person.
Genetics do play a part.
Example, a small percentage of people have no 5-AR enzyme. They are stereotypically knows I suppose as "5a-reductase type 2 deficient pseudohermaphrodites in the Dominican Republic" They don't have DHT. If they ran steroids tho, will they still have hair loss?
GOOD QUESTION. Cannot find any studies or personal experiences from the few that exist.

It might have to do with Anabolic Receptors in our scalps. The more you have the more accelerated the Hairloss.
Ofcourse something has to be feeding those receptors and thats free testosterone thats floating around.

Only way to decrease number of receptors is to take away things that bind to them. When you are on a cycle that is not happening.

Even using Spiro 5% would not help much in reducing receptors, cause Spiro binds to them in place of Steroids. That is also probbably how nizoral possibly functions also.

Finasteride/Duta would help in a person who is not on cycle...
but when you are on cycle, does it really matter much?
WE HAVE TO SAY YES AT THIS POINT.. because some people have reported good results while on cycle and finasteride..
but ofcourse proving anything is still the problem.
I'm sure we all have days where we feel our hair is maybe regrowing and than others where we feel its receading.

**John88Test** · 05-06-2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

Due to lack of completely understanding, The answer is going to be pretty broad. It definitely varies from person to person.
Genetics do play a part.
Example, a small percentage of people have no 5-AR enzyme. They are stereotypically knows I suppose as "5a-reductase type 2 deficient pseudohermaphrodites in the Dominican Republic" They don't have DHT. If they ran steroids tho, will they still have hair loss?
GOOD QUESTION. Cannot find any studies or personal experiences from the few that exist.

It might have to do with Anabolic Receptors in our scalps. The more you have the more accelerated the Hairloss.
Ofcourse something has to be feeding those receptors and thats free testosterone thats floating around.

Only way to decrease number of receptors is to take away things that bind to them. When you are on a cycle that is not happening.

Even using Spiro 5% would not help much in reducing receptors, cause Spiro binds to them in place of Steroids. That is also probbably how nizoral possibly functions also.

Finasteride/Duta would help in a person who is not on cycle...
but when you are on cycle, does it really matter much?
WE HAVE TO SAY YES AT THIS POINT.. because some people have reported good results while on cycle and finasteride..
but ofcourse proving anything is still the problem.
I'm sure we all have days where we feel our hair is maybe regrowing and than others where we feel its receading.

I definately agree with your last statement there. Some days we feel is regrowing and others its falling out. I am currently on a 600mg per week test ent and used dbol wks 1-5. I am at week 9 now and use propecia (aka finesteride) at 2.5mg ED, Rogaine Foam twice a day, and over the counter Nizoral Shampoo ED. Gotta say...I am noticing little to nothing in terms of hairloss. Everyone is different but that combo seems to be working nicely for me and I have a little bit of MPB in the family. later

**jackman22** · 05-06-2007, 05:26 PM

well winny is very well known to cause hairloss so its the most obvious answer.

Originally Posted by TCGypsy

Never said it was "safe."

However, one should always look at the entire stack, not just one component. A lot of stacks have a considerable amount testosterone in them, and can coss hair loss pretty fast due to the conversion to DHT.

I was merely pointing out that you need to look at the entire stack, not just one component.

Winnie is the devil? I think not.

My "friend" used it extensively in NCAA sports that required speed and strength without the bulk. Every steroid has it's own pros and cons. Finasteride is still my basic advice, and would be for anyone on testosterone or any other steroid that has the potential for hair loss if you are susceptible.

Peace,

TCG

**NewVader** · 05-07-2007, 01:42 AM

Still not exactly sure what the difference between finasteride and dutastreride is...is duta a dht blocker too? is it used for hair loss in drugs ( I though propecia had finasteride)

**Billytk03z** · 05-07-2007, 11:02 AM

finasteride is type 2 dht blocker... type 2 dht is what is considered to be the main culprit in hairloss.......

dutasteride is a type 1 and 2 dht blocker... it blocks all dht ( which is over kill in many peoples opinions since type 2 is considered the main contributer to hair loss and type 1 is involved in many morenecessary bodily/homonal functions within the body)...