New to the scene

[DeltaHGB]

Hello there people, I am relatively new to this scene but I have read alot of posts so far in this forum and I think ive started to learn quite a bit about steroids . Im just planning my first cycle which I wont do yet, but will probably start in a month or two. I havent got any good sources and although I have tried to look for reliable local sources in real life, I have had no luck so most likely I am going to choose an online source, ask for references and hopefully check with more experienced users to verify they are good. A little bit about me, I am from the United Kingdom and I am 21 years old, and have been working out for 3/4 years.

According to what alot of people say, testosterone is a good base for a cycle, and since Im happy using injectables, I was thinking of using testosterone enanthate 200 or 250mg per week, either one or two injections per week splitting up the dose. I also understand that testosterone aromatises moderately, and so I want to take Clomid 100mg per day halfway through my cycle, and Nolvadex 10mg near the start of my cycle, increasing it to 20mg later on. Both clomid and nolva taken daily or every two days. I also understand that testosterone enthate will moderately shut down the HPTA, but I heard that clomid can help stimulate testosterone production by increasing GnRH and LH. I am quite young so I am not so concerned about DHT production as long as it isnt anything majorly high, which, with my dose I dont beleive is likely, but correct me if im wrong. I am not expecting too many other major likely side effects.

My plan is to to a 12 week cycle with at least 4 weeks PCT (most likely continuing a few extra weeks). For testosterone enanthate , I want to take 200 or 250mg every week for weeks 1 through 12 of the cycle. I want to take clomid 100mg week 9 to 12 and then decreasing that to 50mg on week 13 and 14, and 25mg on week 15 and then stop taking it. I want to take nolvadex on week 5 at 10mg per day, and increase that to 20mg per day on week 13. I want to continue that until week 16, and then continue with 10mg for a week or two, to conclude my PCT.

Overall, I will continue on a good diet with at least 200 grams of protein a day, 3500 calories a day, and eating healthy fats and low GI healthy carbohydrates such as oats. I suppliment my protein intake with Whey protein (100grams a day), raw eggs that are Lion Quality (45 grams a day) and chicken/tuna/turkey (50-90 grams a day) and often whole milk (usually one litre, sometimes one and half, approx 40 grams protein). Also, do realise I dont eat badly either, I make sure to eat alot of vegetables, nuts, fruits, chickpeas, lentils, brown rice, pittas and bread. I have the occaisonal potato/white rice, usually on an off day. I work out alot and lift weights at the gym and at home, as well as doing cardio and running on weekends, and to get to work since I live nearby. I do about 30 minutes of weight training about 4 or 5 times a week and cardio very often, almost every day. IVe been on this lifestyle for over 2 years except my protein intake wasnt that high a year ago until I realised the importance of it. I am currently 12.5 stone (175 pounds) and 5"11, and my muscle seems to take its time but I am always quick to put on fat. I dont know if its my metabolism but I seem to be quite resistant to putting on muscle and have to fight my body to do get even a little. Im not sure what my body fat % is but I would estimate it at 20%-22%, a bit of fat on tummy, but am skinny on the arms and upper body/torso, my legs are larger but also have fat on my thighs and a bit of muscle.

Anyway, I have planned out my cycle on paper, and I would just like to hear comments from you guys who have done this stuff alot. I didnt want it to be too complex so I kept it simple. Id like to know if people think Clomid+Nolva works well together, and while im prepared to put alot of effort in and get even more weight training in, id like to know what kind of gains 250mg test enanthate can get me in my 12 week cycle. Im hoping for fat loss and weight gain, but gaining muscle is more of a priority, so I dont intend to cut in this cycle. If i could get and keep 15 pounds of muscle id be very happy...

[GoldieTheMack]

Is there a specific question here or are we to critique your entire tirade?
Gold

[DeltaHGB]

well u can critique

[Njord]

well u can critique

OK, here goes. You need to go back and read and research a lot more. Your understaning of steroids , cycles, PCT and ancilliary compounds are completely lacking. There are about 1 millions posts on how to do a proper first cycle and how to do a proper PCT. Do some searches and read those post. Then come back and ask some questions.

[DeltaHGB]

Uh I dont understand, Ive have read several threads on using test enanthate and also read the articles on steroid .com, would you like to point out what is wrong with my cycle?

[Stock]

At 21, you should wait another year, at least. You currently have plenty of natural test in your system to gain muscle, if your diet is good. We really can't tell due to the vague-ness of your diet information. Are you eating 5-7 meals a day spaced out every 2.5-3 hours? IMO, you really need to put on some more weight naturally first. IMO, at 5'11" @ 175 you still have growing to due before you start on the gear...

[DeltaHGB]

At 21, you should wait another year, at least. You currently have plenty of natural test in your system to gain muscle, if your diet is good. We really can't tell due to the vague-ness of your diet information. Are you eating 5-7 meals a day spaced out every 2.5-3 hours? IMO, you really need to put on some more weight naturally first. IMO, at 5'11" @ 175 you still have growing to due before you start on the gear...

Ah I had a feeling someone had said that, but to me it feels like I have been doing this so much that to get even a little muscle that isnt water weight, I have to put in so many weeks of effort. I have had a blood test and my serum testosterone was fine, althogh I dont know its exact value, I have a feeling its not too high since theres a wide range of "normal" values. Either way, I have never really had much muscle, and my facial hair doesnt grow very much, and I have a kinda babyface and not a very deep voice. My guess was that my testoosterone isnt the highest in the world. This isnt something I have thought lightly about, ive been thinking about it for months, and I dont intend to do it for several more. It seems by the time I do an hour of intense weight training, im so exhausted and notice virtually nothing, even if I train every day, or very often.

I eat 6 meals a day, yes, with plenty of snacks and my daily caloric intake is usually 3000 - 4000. Sometimes I just keep eating until I am sick, and I have always had a difficulty with getting food down as my appitite isnt the best. Although, I have found it improves when I eat better healthy whole foods and use Whey powder to get some extra protein. I honestly dont think I will make any significant gains (like even a pound a week is a dream nowadays)...

I feel like I have finished growing, I am tall enough and I am sure I have finished getting taller, I am about as tall as my dad and others in my family. Gaining weight seems to be a diminishing returns thing nowadays, while before I put on a stone in like 2-3 months easily, Getting 3 pounds of even fat, much less muscle is difficult. I donno, my metabolism seems really fast or something... My body seems to HATE getting bigger...

Is it really wrong to do this stuff when im 21? Ive read alot of on the web about the side effects and it seems fine, even people taking it at 18 seem to do alright. I am almost 22 in a few months anyway, why is it so bad to do it now?

[Stock]

"Ah I had a feeling someone had said that, but to me it feels like I have been doing this so much that to get even a little muscle that isnt water weight, I have to put in so many weeks of effort."

It's called hard work, and all of uss have put in the work for the gains. If you dont have a good base, almost all of your gains will be lost after your cycle is over. I use to be a hard gainer as well until I found out what diet works for me. Post your diet of a typical day give us the time of day and what you ate. Lets see if you are eating as clean as you say.

[G-13]

First welcome to the board. second be very careful how you word certian things here, we have seen it all when it comes to asking for certian things and in the way people will ask. Third, Look at your diet. If your not getting bigger your not eating enough. Last, You need to wait a few more years peroid, you can still be making good gains for the next 5-10 years if your eating and working out correctly.

Good luck

[DeltaHGB]

Okay, a few days ago this was what I was having:

(Breakfast)
9am - 40g Oats + Fruity Breakfast Mix, 50g Whey Protein, 500ml Milk
12pm - 4 Chicken Breasts (aprx. 70g) in wholemeal pittas no butter, Spinach, Cucumber, Tomato, Salad, 5 Whole Eggs Raw (lightly heated)
3pm - 20g Dextrose, 50g Whey Protein in 500ml Milk -
Home Workout - Pushups, Dumbbell Curls, Others
* 30g Dextrose after Workout
6pm - 4 Chicken Breasts, 2 Chicken Legs, Half plate chickpeas, 2 Large Potatoes, 1 Wholemeal Pitta
9pm - 2 Chicken Breasts, Portion of tuna, 1 Litre milk, 2 Slices Wholemeal bread, More vegetables
11.30pm - Canned fruit, peaches, mango, other mixed stuff
(before sleep)

Thats a typical day... PS, when I say 50g Whey, I mean, I have 50g of protein, which is typically about 70g or something (3 scoops) of Whey powder, mine is 17g protein/25g of powder. Ohps, and I forgot, usually I have some oats later on in the day... Ive tried alot, from eliminating all high GI foods, to ketogenic diets, to the anabolic diet (carb cycling)... etc... I just find if I have too much protein (ive had like 350g/day before) I just get sick and get diarheaa and generally feel unwell... Oh yeh, I could probably add some olive oil and some perhaps some cheese to get some more of that nice dairy protein... which I will do next time I go shopping... Anyway, point is, ive had sooo many calories ive literally vomitted because ivve eaten more than I can take... I cant possibly see eating more on a regular...

[DeltaHGB]

First welcome to the board. second be very careful how you word certian things here, we have seen it all when it comes to asking for certian things and in the way people will ask. Third, Look at your diet. If your not getting bigger your not eating enough. Last, You need to wait a few more years peroid, you can still be making good gains for the next 5-10 years if your eating and working out correctly.

Good luck

Thanks, id just like to say ive read ALOT and learned ALOT, and this 175-178 pounds that I hover around is very difficult to get past. I dont wanna bulk for the next 10 years just to get a few pounds of fat. I really want to get quicker gains, of muscle! Food and whey isnt cheap also, I really wanna maximise my gains and I feel that it is a waste when im making such small muscle gains. Im determined to do this, and will take steroids within the next months regardless, I simply want help to do this in the best way. Im not going to do it badly, and intend to do my research but its definately something I want. All the work ive done just makes me fatter in the stomach and my body seems to want all my caloriese to turn into fat than muscle. Ive been working out so hard lately, and can barely notice that effort going to anything in the last 2/3 months.

[Stock]

"Home Workout - Pushups, Dumbbell Curls, Others"

If this is all you are doing, there is your problem. Your diet is pretty good, but you need to get some weight training equipment. If pushups., curls, etc, is all you are doing, get a gym membership or weight training eq.

[DeltaHGB]

"Home Workout - Pushups, Dumbbell Curls, Others"

If this is all you are doing, there is your problem. Your diet is pretty good, but you need to get some weight training equipment. If pushups., curls, etc, is all you are doing, get a gym membership or weight training eq.

Thats just an off day, other days I use weight machines and free weights on my maximum weights for 8 reps. I do squats and bench presses, barbell and dumbell curls, etc... And on saturday I lift my car about 10 reps... j/k... Seriously, I do some pretty grueling workouts... But I find it really difficult to make quick progress... I do notice that caffeine/green tea/dextrose is a nice combo and seems to almost make me a little bit stronger for half the day. But really, progress is slow and painful...

Also, if you think doing 75 pushups in the morning before breakfast, then doing about 2 sets of 25 dumbell curls (21kg i think easch), before heading down to the gyms to do low reps on difficult sets for 20 minutes, and then kill myself with cardio, well, I donno what I should do next...

[DeltaHGB]

As I post this, im eating 4 chicken breasts, about 60g of chick peas and a carton of apple juice... (1 litre - 111g carbs, perhaps its not so good since that is in fruit sugar...) My body seems to be an expert in making food into shit...

[Stock]

You could be overtraining. Look, if you are taking in enough quality food, which it looks like you are, then you have a medical condition or its your workout. I would suggest you find out before you get on any gear, or you will waste your money. Slack off the cardio to 3 times a week and bump up your workouts to 1 hr and see if that helps.

[DeltaHGB]

Im not sure if I have a medical condition, I already got a checkup and a blood test, cause I was feeling fatigue and low libido. All I got was some script for some overpriced cialis with only 4 tabs in the box. Oh, not to forget, an appointment to a sleep clinic... which didnt really help anything. How useful... Anyway, Nothing seems to be wrong with me anyway, I just find it hard to get any muscle. I dont personally like the doctors or gps and I want to just acheive my goals. Thanks for the advice, but in my opinion steroids may help me and spending a little money on a cycle to how much gains I can get doesnt seem to bad to me. How much can a 12 week cycle of enanthate with ancillaries cost, I dont think its more than £100 or £150 max, which I might have otherwised wasted on a night out or just buying all sorts of useless suppliments (whey, creatine, zma, vits, eca-stack) that dont actually work well for me.

[Stock]

Maybe you should go to see another doctor, IMO, at 21 you shouldnt need cialis. See if there is a TRT clinic close by.

[DeltaHGB]

Maybe you should go to see another doctor, IMO, at 21 you shouldnt need cialis. See if there is a TRT clinic close by.

TRT clinic, I wouldnt have a clue, I think I went to a clinic but I cant remember what type it was. Good idea, and I agree that would be good, but I dont know of any TRT's, either way, and the amount of time and effort in finding a good gp and then registering is too much trouble. Not to menttion they will probably just prescribe some low-dose barely effective androgel or cream or some crap like that which my old gp suggested. Id probably end up paying some rediculously high price for it (ps, im not rich), on the other hand, a little test enanthate is much cheaper and does the job 2-3x better. I just want to gain a bit of muscle mass, nothing major, I dont even have plans to do a cycle after this one, its just an experiment. If it works well, i might continue, but its something I will consider deeply and wait a while for...

[dupa95]

OK, here goes. You need to go back and read and research a lot more. Your understaning of steroids, cycles, PCT and ancilliary compounds are completely lacking. There are about 1 millions posts on how to do a proper first cycle and how to do a proper PCT. Do some searches and read those post. Then come back and ask some questions.

BIG BUMP

[DeltaHGB]

BIG BUMP

Right, I see... your quote...

All I want to know, is, what is improper or wrong with my cycle? Ive done my research, investigated what others are running, and what some people have done to begin with and came up with a plan. Its still a while till im gonna impliment it but I just want to know whats wrong with it? Is it so seriously flawed that all you can say is my knowledge of steroids is immature, or can someone actually offer critical advice other than I am too young, have medical problem, have a bad diet and dont train enough (/too much).

[Stock]

"can someone actually offer critical advice other than I am too young, have medical problem, have a bad diet and dont train enough (/too much)."

All these things will determine if you will gain any muscle mass or not while on gear. These things should be dialed in first. Then implemented for a few years, then AAS can be added to the program. Steroids are iceing on the cake, but you have to have a cake first, or they are useless. When you are mature enough to understand this point, then you will be mature enough to determine if you should use them or not.

Here is where your cylce is flawed. Test E should be run at 400-500mg per week separated into two injections and it should run a minimum of 10 weeks due to the fact that the long ester used could take up to 8 weeks for you to start seeing any gains. BTW, IMO, the worse shape you are in, or the less experience you have in natural gains will be a determining factor when/if you get any gains at all other than water bloat. These chemical compounds are not magic, you have to have done the hard work ahead of time to receive any benefit from them.

[DeltaHGB]

"can someone actually offer critical advice other than I am too young, have medical problem, have a bad diet and dont train enough (/too much)."

All these things will determine if you will gain any muscle mass or not while on gear. These things should be dialed in first. Then implemented for a few years, then AAS can be added to the program. Steroids are iceing on the cake, but you have to have a cake first, or they are useless. When you are mature enough to understand this point, then you will be mature enough to determine if you should use them or not.

Here is where your cylce is flawed. Test E should be run at 400-500mg per week separated into two injections and it should run a minimum of 10 weeks due to the fact that the long ester used could take up to 8 weeks for you to start seeing any gains. BTW, IMO, the worse shape you are in, or the less experience you have in natural gains will be a determining factor when/if you get any gains at all other than water bloat. These chemical compounds are not magic, you have to have done the hard work ahead of time to receive any benefit from them.

8 Weeks are you serious? I heard that it was half that, or just under half... I dont see why enthate ester would take more than 3/4 weeks. But assuming thats try, my idea is to run for 12 weeks so I should see at least a couple of pounds of muscle, maybe 2-4 pounds for those 4 weeks where my test is high...

[the big lebowski]

hes right man, i did what alot of people have done before that the site talks about.I ran a cycle of test for 8 weeks 400mg a week and gained alot of water that i thought was muscle and lost almost all of it in the end. I have learned from my mistake and now focus on my diet soooo much more. The point is, make gains even if they seem small naturally first so u know how u are working out in the gym and how ur eating is gonna make gains, then consider test. Try to imagine if u learn to make natural gains through a trial and error routine u found and then imagine if u kept that same routine going on a cycle. Your results would be siick so check this site, helped me out with my diet ALOT
http://www.*************/readTopic.do?id=811783

[the big lebowski]

http://www .t - n a t i o n . c o m /readTopic.do?id=811783

[the big lebowski]

forgot the site does that
take out the spaces

[crow13]

Thats just an off day, other days I use weight machines and free weights on my maximum weights for 8 reps. I do squats and bench presses, barbell and dumbell curls, etc... And on saturday I lift my car about 10 reps... j/k... Seriously, I do some pretty grueling workouts... But I find it really difficult to make quick progress... I do notice that caffeine/green tea/dextrose is a nice combo and seems to almost make me a little bit stronger for half the day. But really, progress is slow and painful...

Also, if you think doing 75 pushups in the morning before breakfast, then doing about 2 sets of 25 dumbell curls (21kg i think easch), before heading down to the gyms to do low reps on difficult sets for 20 minutes, and then kill myself with cardio, well, I donno what I should do next...

I think you should ease up on the cardio and you should wait to cycle,but if ypur going to i would do at least 500mg per week for 12 weeks with a proper pct of co urse