Problem While On-Cycle

**Gungnir** · 05-25-2007, 01:40 AM

I am having a problem while on cycle that I have not noticed in those prior to this one:

Last night I felt the need to go to the Emergency Room due to tachycardia. My heartbeat was being maintained at 100+ bpm, as low as 85 and spiking at 120 in different points of the evening. This was at rest while watching television and persisted over a 2-hour span.

When I arrived at the hospital, I was bombarded with questions, along with the obvious inquiry to my AAS usage, to which I replied in the negative. After a blood pressure test and an EKG, both were found to be normal and "anxiety/panic attack" was deemed to be the cause of the issue.

Day 2 of this hasn't made me feel any better, though I am certainly nowhere near 120 again.

My question to the members (and please, only reply if you've experienced these symptoms or have sound, medical advice to give from past experience or a degree in medicine) is:

Can the hormonal imbalance caused by AAS usage be the root cause of these panic attacks? I have no other stressors in my life, at least none to be serious enough for me to panic as I've never done in my life prior to last night.

My current cycle has me on Deca Durabolin at 400mg/week and Masteron at 400mg/week.

Please advise.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-25-2007, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

My current cycle has me on Deca Durabolin at 400mg/week and Masteron at 400mg/week.

Please advise.

are you on test too? both deca and masteron cause your nuts to stop churnin out test, so you should be on some test too.

i have a friend who ran deca for too long without test and it caused his natural test production to quit permamnetly (or that's what the dr said), and he has had to be on test replacement therapy for the rest of his life. he pretty much acts like a woman, too.

**james21** · 05-25-2007, 04:53 AM

add some test, or get some anxiety pills.... or metoprolol its for high blood pressure... and relax's you

**DesiBoy** · 05-29-2007, 11:37 PM

To Gungnir: I had the same problem almost 3 years ago the only difference was cause mine panic attack or anxiety was 1 month after I finished the cycle, but I was still on HCG at that time. Anyway to be honest I was in really bad condition cause noone knew what that was they thought it was some kind of a virus ...so till they figure out what was it I was completely waisted. It took me about 2-2.5 years to get rid of the anxiety. I was taking lexapro a quarter to a half pill per day. Do you also have breathing problems when this happens. It was happening only at night with me. If you want to stop taking the gear now you have to slowly decrease it to a minimum and then cut it off. Do not just quit it would be shocking for the body specially if you are in the middle of the cycle. Take your anxiety pills and when you fill ok, I think you can try another cycle but this time collect more info what to take and how to take it. Let me know what is going on.

**longhorn814** · 05-30-2007, 07:44 AM

the fact that your body is producing no test may have something to do with it. Perhaps you should add some test to the mix. My heart rate goes up a bit if Im on test/tren , but nothing like that. Clen on the other hand gave me a resting heart rate of 120 bpm..not good.

Just curious, why youre running deca , which is a bulker and causes bloat, along with masteron which is more of a hardener and only effective if your body fat is pretty low?

**Gungnir** · 05-30-2007, 08:07 PM

The short and the long answer: test hasn't worked for me. I've never kept the gains on it and it only has negative effects.

Come to find out that the cause, after a visit to the cardiologist, was hypertrophy combined with a high BP from the 'roids.

As for my cycle, Masteron is excellent when used as part of your PCT to block the estrogen receptors. It isn't exclusively used in cutting cycles; I believe it has a place in any cycle. It's FAR better than just taking Nolvadex , which has no other beneficial effects.

**Gungnir** · 05-30-2007, 08:10 PM

Oh, and as far as deca causing water retention, my BF is still at the same percentage it was when I began this cycle, but with 14 lbs more lean muscle mass. (178lb > 192lb @ 7-10%BF by caliper, 9% by tape measure) This is week 8 of my cycle.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-30-2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

The short and the long answer: test hasn't worked for me. I've never kept the gains on it and it only has negative effects.

Testosterone is produced naturally by your body, so to say that it hasnt worked for you is probably a huge understatement. So what i think you mean is that when you were cycling test you didnt see or keep the results you wanted.

But whether or not you got results from cycling test, does not change the fact that since you are a male, a certain level of test is required in your body at all times or bad things happen, some of which are emotional problems like panic attacks, anxiety, and insomnia.

Your natural level of test is very low right now. A well-known side effect of deca is that it causes your body to stop (or almost stop) producing its own level of test. Deca itself has low androgenic properties, so it does not replace the androgenic properties of test even though it stops its production.

Which brings us to your question about why you are having emotional problems on your cycle.

What i am saying is that i think that your emotional problems are very likely caused by your low free and total testosterone levels , which could be increased by adding a maintenance level of test to your deca cycle.

Do a search on google or on this board about cycling deca alone, and i dont think you will see anyone say anything good about doing that.

**lex57** · 05-30-2007, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by pr0digalsun

Testosterone is produced naturally by your body, so to say that it hasnt worked for you is probably a huge understatement. So what i think you mean is that when you were cycling test you didnt see or keep the results you wanted.

But whether or not you got results from cycling test, does not change the fact that since you are a male, a certain level of test is required in your body at all times or bad things happen, some of which are emotional problems like panic attacks, anxiety, and insomnia.

Your natural level of test is very low right now. A well-known side effect of deca is that it causes your body to stop (or almost stop) producing its own level of test. Deca itself has low androgenic properties, so it does not replace the androgenic properties of test even though it stops its production.

Which brings us to your question about why you are having emotional problems on your cycle.

What i am saying is that i think that your emotional problems are very likely caused by your low free and total testosterone levels , which could be increased by adding a maintenance level of test to your deca cycle.

Do a search on google or on this board about cycling deca alone, and i dont think you will see anyone say anything good about doing that.

very well put!!!!

**Panzerfaust** · 05-30-2007, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by pr0digalsun

Testosterone is produced naturally by your body, so to say that it hasnt worked for you is probably a huge understatement. So what i think you mean is that when you were cycling test you didnt see or keep the results you wanted.

But whether or not you got results from cycling test, does not change the fact that since you are a male, a certain level of test is required in your body at all times or bad things happen, some of which are emotional problems like panic attacks, anxiety, and insomnia.

Your natural level of test is very low right now. A well-known side effect of deca is that it causes your body to stop (or almost stop) producing its own level of test. Deca itself has low androgenic properties, so it does not replace the androgenic properties of test even though it stops its production.

Which brings us to your question about why you are having emotional problems on your cycle.

What i am saying is that i think that your emotional problems are very likely caused by your low free and total testosterone levels , which could be increased by adding a maintenance level of test to your deca cycle.

Do a search on google or on this board about cycling deca alone, and i dont think you will see anyone say anything good about doing that.

Bingo!

I was thinking this myself..always include Test in your cycle.

**taiboxa** · 05-30-2007, 09:28 PM

Congrats! your going through menapause!

**Gungnir** · 05-31-2007, 02:48 AM

Cardiac hypertrophy has nothing to do with levels of test and everything to do with abnormal construction of cardiovascular tissue from the increased muscle synthesis and activity.

I will take the advice and add test to my next cycle (once my heart is back to normal) to test the results.

But thus far, I'm quite happy with my results and how I've felt on Nandrolone and Masteron .

But thanks for the imput guys!

**TheSentinal** · 05-31-2007, 04:12 AM

Gung -

I think your tachycardia is related to something other than AAS. I have had this in the past and it was always related to lifestyle. Proper rest and eating are critical to those that are prone to tachycardia. Here are some tips:

1. No alcohol
2. No caffeine
3. No stimulants
4. No recreational drugs
5. No smoking
6. Do a cardio program
7. Eat potassium-containing foods
8. Get a least 8 hours of rest
9. Eat clean meals

I would bet that somewhere in this list you have some opportunities to improve. If you follow this, your tach will go away, IMO. It worked for me.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-31-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Can the hormonal imbalance caused by AAS usage be the root cause of these panic attacks? I have no other stressors in my life, at least none to be serious enough for me to panic as I've never done in my life prior to last night.

that was how you started this thread, asking if your AAS usage could be the cause of your panic attacks, and what i was saying was is that the answer to your question is "yes" and that you can avoid these problems by somehow replacing your natural testosterone production.

you also said that trained medical professionals told you there was no problem with your heart, and an EKG didnt show any abnormalities, and then diagnosed you with a panic attack, so in their professional opinions your heart isnt the probem, your emotions are...

but whatever. i dont know why you ask a question that you already know the answer for

**Gungnir** · 05-31-2007, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by pr0digalsun

that was how you started this thread, asking if your AAS usage could be the cause of your panic attacks, and what i was saying was is that the answer to your question is "yes" and that you can avoid these problems by somehow replacing your natural testosterone production.

you also said that trained medical professionals told you there was no problem with your heart, and an EKG didnt show any abnormalities, and then diagnosed you with a panic attack, so in their professional opinions your heart isnt the probem, your emotions are...

but whatever. i dont know why you ask a question that you already know the answer for

Not sure why you're getting offended by it. lol I went to a second opinion from a cardiologist. The ER doctor's opinion was one thing and the cardiologist's another.

**K.Biz** · 05-31-2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Not sure why you're getting offended by it. lol I went to a second opinion from a cardiologist. The ER doctor's opinion was one thing and the cardiologist's another.

He should be offended by it, because your retarded. its not a funny manor. if your heart thats f*cked then why are your "lol"? Deca will shut down your test production to almost NOTHING. Without test you could possibly have ANOTHER panic attack because of the hormonal inbalance in your system. you came here for an opinion. u got it, and u dont like it?

then go somwhere else.

**Gungnir** · 05-31-2007, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by K.Biz

He should be offended by it, because your retarded. its not a funny manor. if your heart thats f*cked then why are your "lol"? Deca will shut down your test production to almost NOTHING. Without test you could possibly have ANOTHER panic attack because of the hormonal inbalance in your system. you came here for an opinion. u got it, and u dont like it?

then go somwhere else.

I put an update before he posted that saying "come to find out that it was hypertrophy" and not emotional problems, meaning it had nothing to do with Testosterone levels .

Unless you'd care to post some literature stating hypertrophy can be countered by using test?

Try reading the whole thread before running your mouth. For a "senior member," that was pretty childish, especially with the name-calling.

**K.Biz** · 05-31-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

I put an update before he posted that saying "come to find out that it was hypertrophy" and not emotional problems, meaning it had nothing to do with Testosterone levels .

Unless you'd care to post some literature stating hypertrophy can be countered by using test?

Try reading the whole thread before running your mouth. For a "senior member," that was pretty childish, especially with the name-calling.

Look im not going to argue with you. I understand that it was caused by hypertrophy. but why are you experiencing hypertrophy?

It could be because of the hormal upset in your system thats causing the high BP.

so yes the doctor told you it was hypertrophy, but theres a reason why its hypertrophy, u dont just all the sudden get high bp because of nothing. catch my drift?

and just because im a senior member, doesnt mean im not a hard ass. im going to defend the guys on here that are giving you there opnion on what could be the problem.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-31-2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

Not sure why you're getting offended by it. lol I went to a second opinion from a cardiologist. The ER doctor's opinion was one thing and the cardiologist's another.

it's very difficult to offend me, and im not offended.

i just feel sorry for you becasue youre on a shitty cycle and going through test withdrawal and one of the lesser-known symptoms of test withdrawal is thinking that masteron and deca are a great cycle.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-31-2007, 07:48 PM

you have the test levels of a 90 year old man, even lower than a woman's natural test level. have fun

**legobricks** · 05-31-2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

The short and the long answer: test hasn't worked for me. I've never kept the gains on it and it only has negative effects.

Come to find out that the cause, after a visit to the cardiologist, was hypertrophy combined with a high BP from the 'roids.

As for my cycle, Masteron is excellent when used as part of your PCT to block the estrogen receptors. It isn't exclusively used in cutting cycles; I believe it has a place in any cycle. It's FAR better than just taking Nolvadex, which has no other beneficial effects.

Isnt PCT used in order to bring your natural testosterone production back to normal? Isn't Masteron as well as ALL other AAS supressive to your natural test production? Just a little confused thats all.....

**lex57** · 06-01-2007, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

I put an update before he posted that saying "come to find out that it was hypertrophy" and not emotional problems, meaning it had nothing to do with Testosterone levels .

Unless you'd care to post some literature stating hypertrophy can be countered by using test?

Try reading the whole thread before running your mouth. For a "senior member," that was pretty childish, especially with the name-calling.

you know what you are so full of sh*t. i work in health care. and to say you went to the e.r. then you saw a cardiologist and got results of tests done all in 5 days is a lie. wow you must be the president of the united states. nobody gets anything done like this. it would take at least a week just to see a reputable cadriologist. its so funny that everything you put in your posts always seems to work in your favor. thats because it is complete bullsh*t.

**Gungnir** · 06-01-2007, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by lex57

you know what you are so full of sh*t. i work in health care. and to say you went to the e.r. then you saw a cardiologist and got results of tests done all in 5 days is a lie. wow you must be the president of the united states. nobody gets anything done like this. it would take at least a week just to see a reputable cadriologist. its so funny that everything you put in your posts always seems to work in your favor. thats because it is complete bullsh*t.

Actually, in Southern California, we have plenty of cardiologists in my area. There are about 20 within 15 miles, all of whom accept either all-PPO or mostly PPO insured patients ONLY. This means that their appointment book is not clogged with HMO referrals.

Do you know what insurance is, or do you just live in the boondocks where you don't have any good doctors?

**Gungnir** · 06-01-2007, 03:46 PM

www.healthnet.com
www.bluecross.com
www.aetna.com

Look up area codes like 92881 and do a search for "cardiologists" within 15 miles.

What branch of health care do you work in that you know everything about health care everywhere in the U.S.? Try calling one of those doctors and seeing if you can get an appointment. lol Chances are you'll just ramble some b.s. instead about how my "cycle is horrible" despite my gains, rather than do some legwork on it.

Kick rocks, punk.

**lex57** · 06-01-2007, 05:54 PM

never mind bro i believe you now. i clicked on the link to bcbs.com and everything is clear now. thanks for settin me straight. anymore magical answers for anyone?

**test_cyp** · 06-01-2007, 06:03 PM

Do you take any other supplements in addition to AAS? NO-Xplode, fat-burners, monster drinks, caffeine intake, pre-workouts drinks, etc?

**Gungnir** · 06-02-2007, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by test_cyp

Do you take any other supplements in addition to AAS? NO-Xplode, fat-burners, monster drinks, caffeine intake, pre-workouts drinks, etc?

No, and that was the strange part. My caffeine intake is pretty low (maybe 2-3 cups of coffee/week). The only other thing that's high is protein intake (230-240g/day).

I'm getting an echocardiogram this Thursday and it'll be interesting to see the results. From about two years of AAS usage, I'm wondering if hypertrophy is possible from what I've used (test-p, test-c, deca , masteron , d-bol, EQ, clen ) in that timespan.

I do know that Clen can cause heart necrosis and deca is known to cause hypertrophy, but both of those cycles that included deca (one with test, one deca-only) were rather close together and fairly recent.

**S431M7** · 06-02-2007, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gungnir

I am having a problem while on cycle that I have not noticed in those prior to this one:

Last night I felt the need to go to the Emergency Room due to tachycardia. My heartbeat was being maintained at 100+ bpm, as low as 85 and spiking at 120 in different points of the evening. This was at rest while watching television and persisted over a 2-hour span.

When I arrived at the hospital, I was bombarded with questions, along with the obvious inquiry to my AAS usage, to which I replied in the negative. After a blood pressure test and an EKG, both were found to be normal and "anxiety/panic attack" was deemed to be the cause of the issue.

Day 2 of this hasn't made me feel any better, though I am certainly nowhere near 120 again.

My question to the members (and please, only reply if you've experienced these symptoms or have sound, medical advice to give from past experience or a degree in medicine) is:

Can the hormonal imbalance caused by AAS usage be the root cause of these panic attacks? I have no other stressors in my life, at least none to be serious enough for me to panic as I've never done in my life prior to last night.

My current cycle has me on Deca Durabolin at 400mg/week and Masteron at 400mg/week.

Please advise.