LIVER BEAT UP??? please read..

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 08:15 PM

My brother did an 8 week cycle of Alri Max Lmg at 100-125mg/day with 200mg of test prop/wk to ward off ED.
This is not a c-17 oral. For comparissons sake, d-bol and a-bombs have been used in similar mg doses, and they ARE c-17s.

AST was 390... max is 40!

ALT was 963... max is 55!

I have looked this up. AST AND ALT seem to be in response to liver stress. I figured with any kind of oral it would raise liver enzymes somewhat, but not like this from a non c-17.
I worry for the kidneys. He had some water retention in his face but also where his socks end on his shin,???? That put a red flag up for kidneys for me.
He'll be having this reviewed by 2 doctors, his, and the one from (board sponsor), just wonder if anyone has input or experiance.
I think we are DONE with stupid designer roids. After what we we found out with SD and now this, i dont recomend them for anybody.
NO NEW STEROIDS

**longhorn814** · 08-08-2007, 08:29 PM

what the hell is Alri Max Lmg? It sounds like its a 17aa compound to me in order to raise liver values that high!! Either that or there is something else going on like hepatitis?? Designer steroids are new and the actual side effects are not really known, and thus IMO much worse off for you than traditional AAS

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

what the hell is Alri Max Lmg? It sounds like its a 17aa compound to me in order to raise liver values that high!! Either that or there is something else going on like hepatitis?? Designer steroids are new and the actual side effects are not really known, and thus IMO much worse off for you than traditional AAS

came out same time as SD sorta. Its a dht like and progestenic. His strenght was tremendous, pumps great, size was so so.

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 08:51 PM

I have seen studies on milkthisle actually regenerating the liver.. Keep in mind the live is the most res lenient organ ... So hopefully there is no real damage done.. Yes please stay away from that Alri max and others like it !!!

Merc

**lightwaytbaby** · 08-08-2007, 08:52 PM

ya, the liver is one tough sob!...

**PEWN** · 08-08-2007, 08:54 PM

i have put mine through hell thats for sure...

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 09:01 PM

i dont really worry about the liver, as much i worry about the kidneys. That weird water retention on the calves.

AST is relaesed by some other tissues including the liver, ibut also kidneys, brain, and muscles. Im hoping the rise here is partially from the muslces and liver and little if any from the kidneys.
Kidneys dont regenerate

i cant wait till the doctor appt. im itching with anxiety. I mean, i have heard some guys say they have done tren and beaten the hell out there kidneys and pissed blood. And my bro hasnt peed blood so thats good i guess

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

i dont really worry about the liver, as much i worry about the kidneys. That weird water retention on the calves.

AST is relaesed by some other tissues including the liver, ibut also kidneys, brain, and muscles. Im hoping the rise here is partially from the muslces and liver and little if any from the kidneys.
Kidneys dont regenerate

i cant wait till the doctor appt. im itching with anxiety. I mean, i have heard some guys say they have done tren and beaten the hell out there kidneys and pissed blood. And my bro hasnt peed blood so thats good i guess

Dandelion root.. Hold on I will post something on it.. I dunno you have to go with what the docs say but I am just giving you feedback on herbs that might be a benefit to you i dunno..

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:11 PM

Here ya go ..

Volume 2, Issue 12, Article 2, January 2002

Dandelion - Taraxacum officinale

Dandelion is a common meadow herb of the Asteraceae or sunflower family, closely related to chicory. There are about 100 species. Its name is a corruption of the French "dents de lion", meaning "teeth of the lion."

Folk names include lion's tooth, bitterwort, wild endive, priest's crown, doonheadclock, piss-a-bed, Irish daisy, blow ball, yellow gowan, puffball, clock flower, swine snout, Pu gong ying, fortune-teller, and cankerwort.

The generic name derives from the Greek words taraxos, meaning disorder, and akos, meaning remedy. The designation officinale indicates that Dandelion was officially listed as a medicinal.

The Dandelion grows to a height of about 12 inches in temperate lands.

History
Dandelion has a long history. Early colonists brought it to North America, where indigenous people saw its value and used it for its medical and nutritional benefits.

Dandelion leaves and roots have been used for centuries to treat liver, gall bladder, kidney, and joint problems. In some countries, Dandelion is considered a blood purifier and is used for ailments such as eczema and cancer. Dandelion has also been used to treat poor digestion, water retention, and diseases of the liver such as hepatitis.

The first mention of the Dandelion as a medicine is in the works of Arabian physicians of the tenth and eleventh centuries. Thirteenth-century Welsh medicine lauds its properties.

Active Constituents
Dandelion is a source of potassium, sodium, calcium, phosphorus and iron. The leaves are a richer source of Vitamin A than carrots and contain some amounts of Vitamins B, C and D. The root contains bitter glycosides, tannins, triterpenes, sterols, volatile oil, choline, asparagin, and inulin.

Actions
Diuretic, hepatic, cholagogue, anti-rheumatic, laxative, tonic, bitter. It is a general stimulant to the system, especially to the urinary organs, and is primarily used in kidney and liver disorders.
The root is commonly used as a hepatic. The leaf, taken cool, acts as a diuretic.

Uses
The bitter compounds in the leaves and root help stimulate digestion and are mild laxatives. They also increase bile production in the gall bladder and bile flow from the liver. This makes Dandelion a great tonic for people with sluggish liver function due to alcohol abuse or poor diet. The increase in bile flow can help improve fat (including cholesterol) metabolism in the body.

The whole plant is valuable as a general tonic. It may be taken as an infusion of the leaf, a juice extraction, a root decoction, a fluid extract or a tincture. Fresh leaves may be added to salads. The juice extraction is the most potent for medicinal purposes.

Dandelion has reportedly been used to eradicate warts and to soothe calluses, bee stings, or sores.

Many herbalists view the Dandelion as an effective treatment for liver disease, even in extreme cases such as cirrhosis. It can also benefit the pancreas, kidneys, stomach, and spleen. The dried leaf, taken as a tea, is used as a mild laxative to relieve constipation.

Dandelion leaf is a good natural source of potassium, and will replenish any potassium that may be lost due to the herb's diuretic action on the kidneys. This means Dandelion is a safe diuretic in cases of water retention due to heart problems.

The herb is useful in cases of anaemia and hepatitis, and may help to lower high blood pressure. Dandelion may also provide relief for rheumatism and arthritis.

Dandelion therapy, consisting of therapeutic doses of dandelion preparations taken over time, may help reduce stiffness and increase mobility in situations of chronic degenerative joint disease.

Dandelion as a Diuretic
Most women experience pre-menstrual water retention. The familiar symptoms of weight gain, bloating, breast tenderness, and irritability can make the week prior to menstruation miserable.

A Diuretic helps the body with the elimination of urine. Synthetic diuretics flush important minerals such as potassium from the body. Potassium, together with sodium, helps to regulate muscle and nerve function. The loss of these minerals (called electrolytes) can cause dangerous muscle weakness and loss of co-ordination, and even heart rhythm disturbances. Dandelions are remarkable sources of natural potassium, and offer all the advantages of a balanced diuretic in natural form.

Dandelion as a Hepatic
A Hepatic is a herb, usually a bitter herb, which works particularly well on the liver by toning, nourishing, and strengthening it, and by empowering its activity as the primary blood-cleansing organ in the body.

The blood can be contaminated by stress, lack of exercise, poor diet, toxins, and genetic predisposition. When the blood doesn't flow actively, arthritic pains may result because gases or gravel materials are deposited in the joints. Skin disorders like eczema and psoriasis may result from the body trying to push toxins out through the skin.

Dandelion is also a bitter that functions as a Cholagogue. That is, it helps the digestion by increasing the flow of bile released from the gall bladder, which is essential in helping us utilise food nutrients and eliminate waste.

Chinese Herbal Applications
Dandelion is used in cases of jaundice, hepatitis, and red and swollen eyes, as well as urinary tract infection, abscesses, or firm, hard sores in the breasts. It is also said to be effective in increasing the production of mother's milk.

Astrologically, Dandelion falls under the dominion of Jupiter

**PEWN** · 08-08-2007, 09:14 PM

holy crapp nice post...

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:16 PM

I have seen other studies saying dandelion has been an effective treatment in certain liver and kidney disease.. Again go with what you guys Docs say .. This is just some good research info that might benefit you guys..

**PEWN** · 08-08-2007, 09:20 PM

i have a belly button....

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by pewntang

i have a belly button....

INNE or outtie LOL

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 09:23 PM

thanks merc, ill consider this. I never knew it did all that, or that it was called piss a bed.

So does anyone have bloodwork that can compare to this? for comparisons sake. So i know how much trouble were in.
Cuz i know u ALLLL get your bloodswork done...

**gixxerboy1** · 08-08-2007, 09:25 PM

Just because he is bloated doesn't mean his kidneys are in trouble. The water retention could be caused by a few things.

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by mercedesdd

INNE or outtie LOL

another one of these inside jokes...im just not gettin them,lol

**PEWN** · 08-08-2007, 09:26 PM

innie of course... outies are gross...

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

another one of these inside jokes...im just not gettin them,lol

LOL !!!!

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-08-2007, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Just because he is bloated doesn't mean his kidneys are in trouble. The water retention could be caused by a few things.

well, i know it could be from estrogenic or progestenic action but i have never heard of having water retention in the calves. Have u ever seen that?

**Kratos** · 08-08-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

well, i know it could be from estrogenic or progestenic action but i have never heard of having water retention in the calves. Have u ever seen that?

could be trouble with the lymphatic system

**Merc..** · 08-08-2007, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

could be trouble with the lymphatic system

Bingo .. ^^^^^^^^^
Props for Kratos for his as usally good observations.... Thanks for all your post man!!

Merc

**gixxerboy1** · 08-09-2007, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

well, i know it could be from estrogenic or progestenic action but i have never heard of having water retention in the calves. Have u ever seen that?

Yes i have. That's why i brought it up

**XNathan** · 08-09-2007, 02:18 AM

Water retention can be from liver, kidneys, heart, lymphatic system and finaly from blood vesels.

Your brother liver enzymes are high but not criticaly high. For kidneys just search for protein in urine or blood. And some blood analysis for kreatine, azotemia and ALP will inform you about kidneys.

Kidneys problems usualy begin in face periorbital edema than around instep thanks to losing proteins thru kidneys. And also comon is high blood presure.

Liver are producing nearly all plasma proteins so if there is damage its also lead to edema but if is damage so hard there will be jaudice, dark urine and acholic (clay-like) stool.

Heart asociated edema is conected with short of breath, exhaustion, palpitation, dizzines and syncopation.

I hope this will help. Just stop cycle and all will be fine.

**Microbrew** · 08-09-2007, 12:49 PM

What was his Bilirubin Total ?

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-10-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Microbrew

What was his Bilirubin Total ?

0.3 it was in normal range 0.1-.1.2

is that a liver or kidney indicator? its liver right?

**Merc..** · 08-10-2007, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

0.3 it was in normal range 0.1-.1.2

is that a liver or kidney indicator? its liver right?

Might shed some light on your question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-10-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by XNathan

Water retention can be from liver, kidneys, heart, lymphatic system and finaly from blood vesels.

Your brother liver enzymes are high but not criticaly high. For kidneys just search for protein in urine or blood. And some blood analysis for kreatine, azotemia and ALP will inform you about kidneys.

Kidneys problems usualy begin in face periorbital edema than around instep thanks to losing proteins thru kidneys. And also comon is high blood presure.

Liver are producing nearly all plasma proteins so if there is damage its also lead to edema but if is damage so hard there will be jaudice, dark urine and acholic (clay-like) stool.

Heart asociated edema is conected with short of breath, exhaustion, palpitation, dizzines and syncopation.

I hope this will help. Just stop cycle and all will be fine.

protein, albumin, and globulin were alll in normal ranges.

so i guess this is a good thing for the kidneys

whitee blood cell, platelets, and monocytes were high. WBC and monocytes IMO might be a reaction to the prop?, as he did have some nasty test flu the last week. Platelets i believe usaully go up on cycle with increases in blood volume but RBC was normal, so im confused. Oh well Dr appt next week

thannx for posting bro

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-10-2007, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by mercedesdd

Might shed some light on your question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin

thanks merc, that ws helpful

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-10-2007, 10:13 AM

...didnt see any feilds for ALP or azotemia Xnathan.

**gymrat1969** · 08-10-2007, 10:22 AM

[QUOTE=AnabolicBoy1981]i dont really worry about the liver, as much i worry about the kidneys. That weird water retention on the calves.

What do you mean about the calves?
thanks

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 08-10-2007, 10:36 AM

[QUOTE=gymrat1969]

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

i dont really worry about the liver, as much i worry about the kidneys. That weird water retention on the calves.

What do you mean about the calves?
thanks

hE HAd water retention around where his socks end.

**gymrat1969** · 08-10-2007, 10:59 AM

i have the same thing - its annoying i stopped wearing socks because of it and i can't walk on the beach because of the calve pumps

**Merc..** · 08-10-2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by gymrat1969

i have the same thing - its annoying i stopped wearing socks because of it and i can't walk on the beach because of the calve pumps

Quick question have you had any heart test run lately??

**gymrat1969** · 08-10-2007, 11:06 AM

ive had before my cycle actually one day before and all was normal 11 weeks ago , but i do have a heart beat that is very strong since the beginning of cycle and i had a serious scare monday with vision/dizzy issues seeing whacky flasing lights "stobe light'' thought i was stroking out for half and hour - i wondered if it was possible that was the test inject entering my artery 2 hours later - i doubt it but i do have a doctors appt just to rule out any issues

**Merc..** · 08-10-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by gymrat1969

ive had before my cycle actually one day before and all was normal 11 weeks ago , but i do have a heart beat that is very strong since the beginning of cycle and i had a serious scare monday with vision/dizzy issues seeing whacky flasing lights "stobe light'' thought i was stroking out for half and hour - i wondered if it was possible that was the test inject entering my artery 2 hours later - i doubt it but i do have a doctors appt just to rule out any issues

You did aspirate right ? What comes to mind from reading what your describing sounds like vertigo but i dunno. Good call on going to see the doc . Please let us know what he says.. Make sure you tell him you noticed your heart beat seems as you say strong.

Merc

**gymrat1969** · 08-10-2007, 06:25 PM

thanks i will keep you up to speed

**Smoothb001** · 08-11-2007, 11:49 AM

in my research and experience LIV.52 has been the most predominant supplement for liver support. i take milk thistle along with LIV.52 and my enzymes dropped to normal levels within months.... you can get it online... google it!

**XNathan** · 08-12-2007, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

protein, albumin, and globulin were alll in normal ranges.

so i guess this is a good thing for the kidneys

whitee blood cell, platelets, and monocytes were high. WBC and monocytes IMO might be a reaction to the prop?, as he did have some nasty test flu the last week. Platelets i believe usaully go up on cycle with increases in blood volume but RBC was normal, so im confused. Oh well Dr appt next week

thannx for posting bro

I can speculate but I think that can be some form of autoiminute reaction. Your brother can carry HLA B27. Antigen type who is asociated with many autoimunite deseases. In his case induced by gear...

Its usual respiration disease (or some drug) few weeks (days) than rheumatid reaction afectin joints, organs...

**Johnny Blazin** · 08-18-2007, 08:02 AM

Wow man, just wow. Ergomax LMG is pheraplex or DMT. Have a look in Anabolics 2006, a VERY hepatotoxic oral, up there with superdrol and halo. Your brother was taking 5 times the recommended amount for eight weeks and you wonder why his liver is ****ed? Would you take Halotestin @ 100 - 125mg a day for 8 weeks?

Oh and it is methylated. Where did you get the idea that its not from?

Ergomax LMG:
17-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane
Clear as glass...

**Tbone1975** · 08-18-2007, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

My brother did an 8 week cycle of Alri Max Lmg at 100-125mg/day with 200mg of test prop/wk to ward off ED.
This is not a c-17 oral. For comparissons sake, d-bol and a-bombs have been used in similar mg doses, and they ARE c-17s.

AST was 390... max is 40!

ALT was 963... max is 55!

I have looked this up. AST AND ALT seem to be in response to liver stress. I figured with any kind of oral it would raise liver enzymes somewhat, but not like this from a non c-17.
I worry for the kidneys. He had some water retention in his face but also where his socks end on his shin,???? That put a red flag up for kidneys for me.
He'll be having this reviewed by 2 doctors, his, and the one from (board sponsor), just wonder if anyone has input or experiance.
I think we are DONE with stupid designer roids. After what we we found out with SD and now this, i dont recomend them for anybody.
NO NEW STEROIDS

Just read entire thread. Wish I could help. Good luck, and I really hope everything will turn out good for you and your brother. I bet it will.