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Thread: Ghb??

  1. #1
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    Ghb??

    I just tried g for the first time this weekend. I used it for rec purposes and I have been trying to find info on how it adds muscle and I have come up empty, if anyone has info on how G builds muscle it would help me alot.

  2. #2
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    Short and sweet bro, IT DOESNT! The shit is wack and only used to get f'ed up on. Some people will try and say that it helps u sleep better and in that case helps muscle growth. BUNK BUNK BUNK!!

    OG

  3. #3
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks bro, one more question,The g made my muscles feel more pumped up, is this possible or was I just that fucked up

  4. #4
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    lol bro, u had some good stuff.. All in ur head. There is no scientific fact that shows GHB helps muscle growth in anyway. And if some one post that it does help, show me in writting where it does? Ohh and ur welcome!

    OG

  5. #5
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    Can't do that havent found one, and yeah the shit was fuckin great

  6. #6
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    Hey bro, im pretty much against G for personal reasons. Its some pretty bad stuff specially if mixed with alcohol. If u do it just be very carefull plz! Its really not something to mess with. But i dont expect u to listen to my advice..

    OG

  7. #7
    Seaoro693's Avatar
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    Ghb raises growth hormone levels, but it also raises another hormone that counteracts the raised Gh levels. If i remeber right prolactin. It pretty much has only one application for bodybuilders this is as a sleep aid. Getting a full nights sleep while being on a hard core cycle can be tough, and sleep is essental for growth. There was a thread up a while ago with someone expermenting with taking ghb and bromocriptine. The bromo was thought to lower or block prolactin and thus the body could benefit from the raised gh levels. Anyone know what became of this experment?

  8. #8
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    I am proably not going to but thanks for caring, but the next day I was so pumped up and rested. IMO i think it does help sleep

  9. #9
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    Does anyone know if you can still buy gbl over the counter in california

  10. #10
    OGPackin's Avatar
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    Ok heres Big Cats profile on GHB...Even though i respect BC and consider him my godfather to AS theres nothing in here that changes my mind in using G for bb purposes...Yes it does help u sleep. No doubt about that. There also is a study going on where there giving GHB to people with sleep disorders. And its working for them. That im not disputing.

    OG

    GHB and Bodybuilding

    Direct Effects

    Does GHB truly have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal, or is the whole GH thing just an excuse to get twisted?? I believe it does have a place -- though, as I will show, many of its positive effects on body composition are more indirect than direct.

    The first thing we should look at is its most commonly touted effect -- its stimulation of Growth Hormone release. It has, in fact, been found to raise growth hormone levels sharply in numerous studies (23, 30, 33). Some have claimed that these increases are only with intravenous administration or are the indirect result of GHB inducing sleep, as the onset of slow wave sleep is associated with increased GH levels. However, studies using oral delivery, have indeed shown increases in conscious subjects (23,30). With administration of 1.5 g of GHB, GH levels begin to rise almost immediately, reaching a peak of 3 times normal levels within 45 minutes, then rapidly falling back to within 25% of baseline by the 90 minute mark. Clearly, it does increase growth hormone.

    Nonetheless, reports in both the literature and the real world on body composition, even with growth hormone injections, have been something less than spectacular. In the literature, GH has been shown to increase protein synthesis, however, it is not contractile protein (muscle) but rather visceral (organs) (34). Data on fat loss and muscle sparing with GH is a bit better. It has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown during dieting and fasting, leading to increased retention of muscle mass (35) . It is also known to be lipolytic (36). Real world reports of GH run along the same lines -- it not effective on its own for increasing muscle, but an increase it fat loss is definitely noticeable. But, again, this is with injections. Once a day use of GHB is not likely to mirror these effects. However, if someone would like to take 1.5 grams every 90 minutes for an extended period, please report back with your results.

    At doses of 2.5 - 3.5 grams, GHB causes increased release of prolactin, doubling levels by the 45 minute mark, followed by a gradual return to baseline (33). Increases in prolactin have been shown to proportionally raise leptin levels, so this represents a possible positive effect on fat loss and muscle retention (37). Unfortunately, similar doses also raise cortisol levels, which has exactly the opposite effect of leptin on body composition (33). This antagonism might account for the lack of effects observed with GHB, and could perhaps be remedied with a drugs or supplement such as Cytadren or phosphatidylserine.

    In addition to these, there are several other lesser known effects of GHB which have implications for bodybuilders. It increases gastric emptying (38), which is likely what causes the temporary increase in appetite observed with GHB use . Obviously, this is not particularly beneficial on a diet, though it might be on a mass phase. It also would likely make a good addition to a post-workout drink, as it would make glucose and amino acids available more quickly. Increased protein synthesis in brain and gastric tissues has been reported, whether this is accompanied by increased skeletal muscle synthesis is not known (39). Obese rats were found to have lower brain levels of GHB than their lean counterparts, despite identical diet, which suggests GHB as a potential signaler in the regulation of bodyweight (40) -- GHB metabolite GABA increases with fat feeding, which lends further support to this hypothesis. It has been shown to function as a powerful an antioxidant, blocking free-radical formation and lipid peroxidation (10). This could aid in recovery, as well as in overall health.

    One of the more fascinating possibilities, comes from a study in rats (21) which showed a remarkable increase in body temperature after administration of very low doses. Following intraperitoneal injection of 5mg/kg, body temperature rose rapidly to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit above normal at 15 minutes, and reached a peak of almost 2.2 degrees at the hour mark. It was still elevated by 2 degrees at the 75 minute mark, and dropping only quite gradually -- in humans, this would be a profound thermogenic effect (Clenbuterol might raise body temperature by 1 degree).

    Considering GHB has a half-life of 5 minutes after injection (41), it would seem that GHB was not directly mediating these effects, but rather caused the release of something with a longer half-life. I am going to go out on a limb a bit and propose that the mediator might be norepinephrine -- which has a peripheral half-life of several hours -- as long as 12 in some tissues (42 ).

    As mentioned above, GHB does not seem to effect central norepinephrine levels, however it HAS been shown to effect peripheral levels -- with high doses causing profound depletion of heart and brown fat norepinephrine levels (10). And, perhaps not coincidentally, in contrast to the increase in body temperature with the low dose, these high doses consistently cause a DECREASE in body temperature (21, 43). As we have seen, GHB has been conclusively shown to exert a biphasic effect on dopamine, so the possibility certainly exists with this compound.

    I want to make clear that the above is very speculative, both as to why it occurred and to its having any relevancy toward humans. First, it is only one study. Second, it used intraperitoneal injections rather than oral administration. Third, the mechanisms were not looked at. And fourth, rats have much higher levels of brown fat, thus the thermogenic effects of an increase in norepinephrine would be exaggerated compared to humans.

    Nonetheless, it is certainly enticing enough to give a try, with a couple of adjustments that take into account the use of human subjects (I would not expect the pharmacokinetics of oral and i.p. administration to be significantly different with this low of doses). GHB is metabolized by rats much faster than humans, thus a lower dose would be recommended. I would estimate 1-2mg/kg at most -- meaning around 100-200 mg for a 200 lb person -- this is a tiny dose -- one which would produce no subjective psychological effects and, in fact, probably no increase in brain GHB levels (21).

    Indirect Effects

    Perhaps the most important applications of GHB for bodybuilders do not involve direct effects on hormones or hormone systems, anabolic or otherwise. The first is that GHB is a MAGNIFICENT sleep aid. As mentioned previously, at sufficient doses, it rapidly and predictably causes the onset of a sedation which has been characterized as identical to human sleep (17), but with a greater portion of the time spent in stage IV and R.E.M. sleep (44), which are the most beneficial for recovery. I trust I do not need to mention the importance of sleep for a bodybuilder. I trust I also do not need to mention the detrimental effect on sleep of certain common components of the bodybuilding arsenal such as EC and androgens. I will mention that GHB makes waking up in the middle of the night for a protein shake much more feasible. And, again, I trust that I do not have to mention the effects of a 6-10 hour fast on the anabolic/catabolic state of the body.

    The other application for GHB is as an alcohol substitute. In addition to containing 105 calories per drink -- more if you are having beer, alcohol lowers testosterone (45) and has a tendency to cause less than optimal workouts the following day. As dedicated as we might be to improving our bodies, most of us do not want to be a slave to this pursuit when it comes to socializing/partying.

    GHB is a life saver here. Its biochemical, electrophysiological, and and pharmacological effects are quite similar to alcohol (46, 47). And, in fact, it has been successfully used clinically in the treatment of alcohol dependency, where it is thought to work through a substitution mechanism -- meaning it mimics alcohol's actions on the central nervous system (46). Both activate the dopamine system -- a characteristic commonly shared by drugs of abuse, they exhibit cross-tolerance -- meaning frequent consumption of one causes tolerance to the other, and both are preferentially (vs. water) self-administered by rats (16).

    Subjectively, the effects are not identical. Some prefer a GHB intoxication to alcohol, some the vice versa. I find GHB to be more sedating and slightly less uninhibiting than alcohol, but I know others for whom the opposite is true. Without question, one feels considerably better the next day with GHB vs. alcohol.

    A combination of the two can allow a a shitfaced intoxication subjectively quite similar to that produced by alcohol, but with the consumption of only a few drinks, thus only a few hundred calories. It is typically strongly suggested that the two not be combined, with the argument that they have synergistic effects. However, based both on experience and the available scientific data, I tend to think the effects are mostly additive. Thus, I do not necessarily consider this activity contraindicated. The problem is that downing a "cap full" of GHB is like bonging a 6 pack, so for someone who is already quite intoxicated, this can put them over the edge.

    Also, keep in mind that the metabolism of the two drugs are different -- GHB's in not saturable at typically utilized doses, thus it has a half-life (of probably 1 hr when taken orally), while alcohol's is quite saturable, thus only one drink is metabolized per hour -- meaning if one has 6g of GHB and 6 drinks at hour one (do not do this), at hour three, you would have only 1.5g of GHB in your system, but 4 drinks. As you can see, if one kept drinking, as the night went on, it would get a bit complicated, so if you do experiment with this combination, start with small amounts until you get a feel for it.

    Safety

    The overall safety of GHB is well-established in experimental and clinical use. Doses as high as 30 grams a day have been used in humans (48). And acute doses of as much as 1g/kg have been used in monkeys (10). Both without ill effects. It has no toxic effects on the liver, kidneys or other organs (48, 49). In narcolepsy studies, nightly use of 2.5 to 15 grams for several years resulted in no long-term adverse effects, nor did it result in addiction/dependence.

    Side effects can include dizziness, nausea, and sometimes vomiting -- particularly on an empty stomach. It almost invariably causes drowsiness, so don't take it and then hop in the bathtub. Ataxia (loss of coordination) is more severe than with alcohol, so driving could be considered contraindicated.

    Maximizing Recreational Value

    With our new understanding of GHB pharmacology, coupled with a basic understanding of the mechanisms of other drugs, it is apparent that we could readily manipulate our subjective experience to suit our tastes. However, an in-depth analysis is beyond the scope of this article -- though, it will likely be the subject of a future one.

    Availability

    Scandalously, sale or possession of GHB is now illegal in all 50 states. It is currently a "Schedule I" drug -- meaning it has no legitimate medical uses, despite over thirty years of use in Europe in everything from drug addiction treatment to childbirth.

    Both gammabutyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4 butanediol (BDO) are converted into GHB upon ingestion (both are naturally occurring precursors in the human brain), and were being sold as nutritional supplements for a while (RenewTrient, SomatoPro, Blue Nitro, etc.). However, their sale for human use has now been banned as well.

    GHB can be readily synthesized from GBL, however, it has been designated as a "List 1" chemical, meaning a distributor must obtain a DEA # and report all sales, along with appropriate paperwork. Thus, it is, for all intents and purposes, unavailable as well.

    If none of these can be readily obtained, what is the point of all this...???

    The Good News

    I have recently discovered a substance which, upon ingestion, is converted via lactonase catalysed hydrolysis (same mechanism as GBL) to a GHB analogue that was found to bind to the receptor with 15% GREATER affinity GHB itself. And, not only is it perfectly legal in all 50 states for sale, possession, and ingestion, but it also is Generally Regarded as Safe (G.R.A.S) by the FDA.

    This product, Tranquili-G, is now available through Avant Labs. I am taking steps, as we speak, to obtain a use patent on it as a sleep aid, growth hormone releaser, anxiolytic, and good-time party drink. Until that time, I will be unable to reveal the actual name of the chemical, for obvious reasons.

  11. #11
    maxmus is offline Junior Member
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    thanks og

  12. #12
    STACKEDMATT is offline Junior Member
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    I been using ghb for 3 years and it is very dangerous if not used correctly. From my personal experiences with it , The only things i can say will benefit u (from my personal experiences only) is it a) Can aide in sleep slightly but when it wears off in 4 hours after taking it I just wake up because its affect wears off. b) it has some weak fatburning effect on my body.c) i used it many many times before a workout and get tremendouse pumps and energy in my workouts. I used it this way for 6 months strait and loved it at about 2 grams a half hour before workout. I know of a few bodybuilders who use this drug with much success. Whenever its around i pick it up. Dont get me wrong (this is my personal experience with it) and i swear bye it.This stuff is not for amatuers and is very dangerous if not used properly as OG stated above..

  13. #13
    nuke is offline Member
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    STAY AWAY FROM GHB !!! Those of you who thnk its the cool thing to do you are very wrong...
    I'll take you to a grave site to prove it !!!! ( You want rest take nyquill ) Jesus this topic upsets me !

  14. #14
    OGPackin's Avatar
    OGPackin is offline Anabolic Member
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    I agree Nuke!! For personal reasons (which u know) im totally against using GHB!! It can be some scary [email protected]!!

    OG

  15. #15
    djsir007's Avatar
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    G is only good for getting F'ed Up.
    You wake up in a few hours and it never feels like I got a good nights sleep except the first few times. Never took it before a work out, but Im not sure I would want to be lifting weights while i was twisted on G. Its a good buzz but I really doubt it does much good for you. And no matter what anyone says I believe it hurts your liver, because if I am out all night and take G all night my piss is dirty and my liver can feel sore. Maybe its something else, but it is a very odd coincidence.
    Just my Opinions

  16. #16
    kookie's Avatar
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    isn't GH and GHB two tottaly differant drugs,i use ghb to get to sleep sometimes but a buddy told me it could be used as a steroid dont think it could do nething but mess u up

  17. #17
    OGPackin's Avatar
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    Hey bro, the GH hes probably talking about is Growth Hormone . Actually its HGH, Human Growth Hormone. GHB is the [email protected] ur saying u use to help u sleep. And dont listen to ur buddy it CANT be used as a steroid .

    OG

  18. #18
    G-PIG's Avatar
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    there is rumour, kind of like a myth or legend that G induced sleep puts you into a higher lever of REM sleep which in turn releases more natural growth hormone , i dont know of any studies personally but in my opinion keep it on the shelf for rec purposes , because you will build a tolerance to g, as well it is extremely hard to come off of, they say its harder than quiting heroin, check out www.ghb.org i think thats right,

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