receptor sites?

[lil-SLIM]

ok so i know that cycle + PCT = suggested time off for receptor sites to recover and be most useful again, but can anyone show me some data or a study that suggests this?

basically im looking to find out some more about how and when receptors are recovered?

also do receptors recover faster from certain substances or quantities of substances?

seems to me there should be lots of variation here, so where does this cycle + PCT = suggested time off come from...

[lil-SLIM]

thought this was interesting cause I dont see much about this subject on the site

what if you did a 10 week cycle then switched to diff substances would receptors be open to the new juice? question stems from knowing people who do rediculously long cycles consisting of mulitple substances

[lil-SLIM]

bump

[JSola]

wish i could help you bud, but i got no clue

[WelshWarrior]

wish i could help you bud, but i got no clue

Not flaming you, but that response suits your avatar!

[JAY_WD]

bump...

i too curious as to where this time on + pct = time off before starting another cycle.

Where did this protocol originate?

[JAY_WD]

bump for answer to my ques...

[Dukkit]

.... yea lets get some answers in here.

[reppedout1]

i was always under the impression that receptor cells always upregulate,your body always generates more,i could be wrong though!.time off is good because it allows your body to return to a normal state.letting your liver values,lipid profile etc to return to normal if they were elevated......repped

[duramaxedge]

... bump

[JAY_WD]

bump..

[millionairemurph]

its not just receptors that have to repair after a cycle.... your ligaments, organs etc have to catch up too. I have heard a big limiting factor has something to do with the nervous system and how growth (at least at the rate on cycle) cannot be sustained for long periods because of this. Someone will surely know more than my .02

[jaysunderstudy]

I've heard taking benadryl after a cycle helps receptors but I found that to be inacurrate. Just take the appropriate time off. Your never gonna grow like you did on ur first cycle.

[WelshWarrior]

I've heard taking benadryl after a cycle helps receptors but I found that to be inacurrate. Just take the appropriate time off. Your never gonna grow like you did on ur first cycle.

Benadryl works when used with clen , but not gear.

[lil-SLIM]

come on guys 'receptor sites'...shit someone should know somthing about this lol

if you take the same substance for a period of time take a short time off and go back on that substance will your receptors be open to it? how long till there optimal again?

what if you take a substance for a while then switch to a different substance? are your receptors open? or do all substances use the same receptors...?

[JAY_WD]

bump..

[Atomini]

Not enough research and studies have been done by the medical establishment on this to know anything about it.

All we know about receptors is that an increase in androgens causes an increase in receptors in the cells.

How and why the receptors become less responsive over the period of time during a cycle is unknown. And how and why they recover and what we can do to assist in recovery is unknown. We know almost nothing about it due to very little research being done. That's why nobody knows anything.

[graeme87]

Essentially we are talking about receptor site down regulation. I personally think it is over rated. Think about another class of drug you have been on long term, did you have your dose adjusted i.e. did you adapt and become less sensitive to the drug? In most cases I’d say no.

For example I take anti depressants, I’ve been on the same dose for over a year and it’s still working for me.

Lets look at guys on hrt, I know guys that have been on for several years and not had there dose adjusted because it still works. Now obviously they are taking it for a different reason and at a much smaller dose than one would use on a cycle but in general (with all medication) what dose works now will work in the future.

Contradictory to what I have just said the human body does adapt to medication and doses sometimes do need to be increased but it’s not often and not dramatic changes.

What I’m trying to say is, receptors my down regulate and become less sensitive to gear but in a small way.

I’m sure someone is going to jump in and say “but I gained 15-20lbs off my 1st cycle that was 500mg of test and now I have to hammer 1g of test + another compound to gain half of that” fair enough but I would argue its not that your body has adapted to the compounds and become less sensitive to them it’s simply easier for a smaller guy to gain mass than a bigger guy. At 200lbs going on your first cycle you can expect big gains, at 250lbs your body is already packed with muscle and that is what makes it harder to gain rather than you being less sensitive to the gear.

I have no idea where the time on = time off principal came from, I think it is one of the many steroid myths. It’s decent in the sence it tells you not to use gear all the time but now that people are experimenting with different types of cycle i.e heavy 6 week cycles or long 6 month cycle as apposed to the standard 10-12 weeks cycle it isn’t really so reliable. I don’t think you would need 6 months off after doing a 6 month cycle, sure the longer you are on the more it can suppress your natural hormone system but after 5-6 weeks on deca your natural test production is practically zero anyway.

I’d like to point of I have no medical studies to back up what I am saying, it is pure speculation but in my educated guess I’d say receptors do not down regulate that much, slower gains and higher doses are due to the bigger your are the harder it is to gain. I also think time on = principal is a very general guide line and is not set in stone.

[WelshWarrior]

Essentially we are talking about receptor site down regulation. I personally think it is over rated. Think about another class of drug you have been on long term, did you have your dose adjusted i.e. did you adapt and become less sensitive to the drug? In most cases I’d say no.

For example I take anti depressants, I’ve been on the same dose for over a year and it’s still working for me.

Lets look at guys on hrt, I know guys that have been on for several years and not had there dose adjusted because it still works. Now obviously they are taking it for a different reason and at a much smaller dose than one would use on a cycle but in general (with all medication) what dose works now will work in the future.

Contradictory to what I have just said the human body does adapt to medication and doses sometimes do need to be increased but it’s not often and not dramatic changes.

What I’m trying to say is, receptors my down regulate and become less sensitive to gear but in a small way.

I’m sure someone is going to jump in and say “but I gained 15-20lbs off my 1st cycle that was 500mg of test and now I have to hammer 1g of test + another compound to gain half of that” fair enough but I would argue its not that your body has adapted to the compounds and become less sensitive to them it’s simply easier for a smaller guy to gain mass than a bigger guy. At 200lbs going on your first cycle you can expect big gains, at 250lbs your body is already packed with muscle and that is what makes it harder to gain rather than you being less sensitive to the gear.

I have no idea where the time on = time off principal came from, I think it is one of the many steroid myths. It’s decent in the sence it tells you not to use gear all the time but now that people are experimenting with different types of cycle i.e heavy 6 week cycles or long 6 month cycle as apposed to the standard 10-12 weeks cycle it isn’t really so reliable. I don’t think you would need 6 months off after doing a 6 month cycle, sure the longer you are on the more it can suppress your natural hormone system but after 5-6 weeks on deca your natural test production is practically zero anyway.

I’d like to point of I have no medical studies to back up what I am saying, it is pure speculation but in my educated guess I’d say receptors do not down regulate that much, slower gains and higher doses are due to the bigger your are the harder it is to gain. I also think time on = principal is a very general guide line and is not set in stone.

Good post. Surprised the senior members haven't yet added anything to this thread....

[JAY_WD]

Good post. Surprised the senior members haven't yet added anything to this thread....

bump for senior members opinions

[passthetest]

they probly dont want to coment on it because they dont want people thinking its ok to cycle for extended periods of time without time off

[lil-SLIM]

wow still surprised by this one cant believe theres no info out there...does this mean that any statements about receptor sites previously made on this site are simply speculation?

[Atomini]

wow still surprised by this one cant believe theres no info out there...does this mean that any statements about receptor sites previously made on this site are simply speculation?

The only true information about receptor sites is the following article and study:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ownregulate%22

Read that. That's as much as we know about receptors already. All the other misinformation and parroted bullshit like 'receptor saturation' is just conjecture and speculation. Infact, as it shows in that article, the theory of receptor saturation has been disproved.

[Bob segal]

<who really knows, i remember reading this guys opinion, i dont know if it will help>


I am not a big Trevor Smith fan, but good read just the same:

Clearing the Receptors

By Trevor L. Smith

The following information is for entertainment purposes only...Nuclear Nutrition does not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drug. No liability is assumed by Nuclear Nutrition

A lot has been said in regards to clearing the receptors and I thought now would be a good time to delve into this subject and simplify things.

Basically, one must view the receptor sites as parking spaces.

Envision a slew of parking spaces that are all empty. Now we are going to call these parking spaces your receptor sites and we shall call steroids the cars. Now I want you to imagine one of those old 1950's style drive up hamburger stands where the girls come up in roller skates and take your order. Typically one would order a burger, fries and a coke--ah the food of the gods--the waitress would take the order, go bring the information to the cook, who would in-turn make the food and the waitress would then bring the food to you and you would then begin eating which is the whole reason you came to the hamburger stand in the first place.

I think everyone can easily understand that. Which means everyone can easily understand all they need to know about the receptor sites because they do the exact same thing. We will keep with this hamburger stand model and explain what happens when you inject steroids and they begin to go to work.

Remember how I said steroids were like the cars and the parking spaces were like the receptor sites? Well it is basically that simple. When you inject testosterone or any one of it's anabolic or androgenic derivatives, you are sending a whole slew of "cars" into your system. Now these "cars" are on a mission--just like you would be if you were hungry and heading to a hamburger stand. They have orders to place with the cells, but before they can place them they must first find a parking space.

Now let's say you have never used steroids before. If this were the case, it would be very much like a hamburger stand that was having a grand opening....lots and lots of empty parking spaces waiting for cars to fill them up and place their orders. The steroids (cars) enter the system and come to a brand new hamburger stand called your cells. Now these cells have never previously been open to the boat-load of anabolics that are now present in the system because they previously only dealt with what your body naturally produced. However, there are lots of extra parking spaces that can be utilized and so the steroids park themselves into these spaces.

Once they are parked a "waitress" called CYCLICl AMP literally crosses the cellular membrane which is totally impenetrably to anything else and takes the order from the steroid . The order is quite simple: Build More Muscle!!

The "waitress" then crosses back through the cellular membrane and brings the order to the "cook" called the Nucleus who begins to fill it by ordering its helpers called Ribosomes to produce muscle protein.. Now different steroids will have slightly different orders in that some may have a bigger order for the cook to fill--such as testosterone. The thing you have to realize is that a lot of times, after the order is placed, the steroid does not necessarily leave the parking space and make it available to other steroids.....it will often sit in the parking space even though it is no longer sending orders to the "waitress" to bring to the "cook", and this is where the problem of "DOWN-REGULATION" comes in. You see even if you send in more and more fresh new "cars" to occupy the receptor spaces, if they are already taken up by old "dead cars" you are shit out of luck.....

This is why you do not continually grow by injecting bigger and bigger doses of steroids. THERE ARE A LIMITED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. Now it would not be so bad if all the parking spaces were taken by "cars" that were sending orders to the cook, because that is when you grow. The problem is when there are "cars" that are no longer sending orders and on top of that have dead batteries which is preventing them from exiting the receptors parking space.

This is what the whole point of this article is....TOWING AWAY ALL THE DEAD "CARS" FROM THE RECEPTOR SITES PARKING SPACES AS TO FREE THEM UP FOR NEW, FRESH, HUNGRY "CARS" TO OCCUPY THEM...This will result in new muscle mass!

O.K. Trevor, I am with you so far, but what the **** can I do about it?

The answer is ...PLENTY!

First and foremost, is to plan sensible courses. This is why I am an advocate of short courses designed in such a fashion as to have all drugs out of the system by the end of the cycle and then allow for a 3-4 week off time in which you are totally clean. If you stay on these monster 4-6 month courses, you just wind up screwing yourself and requiring that much longer of an off period. The longer you are on, the more the body recognizes that there is "too much" in the system and will begin to take counter measures. And the longer you are on, the more "dead cars" you will have sitting in the receptor parking spaces which means NO MORE GROWING!

Now with this in mind, how can we help get the cars out of there?

Well WE actually cannot, but the body can and will. Basically as time goes by, the body will free up the parking spaces just like a tow truck would remove a dead car from a parking space. However, you are at the mercy of time in this situation which is why it is important to utilize short courses that will cause less disturbance in the system, less "dead cars" in the receptor spaces and therefore less time needed for the body to remove them and free up the spaces.

That being said, it should be noted that even short course will pile up "dead cars" after a while and you should give yourself an extended clean out of 2 months at least once a year.

But Trevor, isn't there anything I can do to help speed the process?

Once again the answer is yes!

You can help speed the process up dramatically by increasing your metabolic rate...Speeding up the metabolic rate is akin to hiring extra tow trucks to clear out all those "dead cars" that are occupying the receptor sites!

Have you ever know a person who was much, much fatter than you and yet ate half as much?

These poor bastards think they were given the genetic shaft and try every diet fad imaginable only to stay fat. Their problem no longer lies in their eating habits--which is ironic--; it lies in their metabolism, which basically was shut down due to the excess eating and lack of exercise that got them fat in the first place. Once you understand this, you can easily control your weight for the rest of your life. But what the **** does this have to due with steroid receptor sites?

EVERYTHING!

The same thing I would prescribe someone whose metabolism has shut down due to obesity, is the same thing I would prescribe someone who's receptor sites are all clogged and is no longer making progress....INCREASE THE METABOLIC RATE!!

Below I will outline a few ways this can be achieved in the constraints of a 4 week Receptor Clearing Cycle follwing the completion of a Muscle Building Course using anabolics:

Diet: I suggest cutting back 300 calories below maintenance per day during a 4 week off time from your anabolic regime...I also suggest eating 6-8 small meals spread out from early morning to late at night. The higher the number of meals you eat, the more your body has to go to work and break down the food which causes the metabolic rate to increase.

Aerobics: Yet another tool in the battle to increase the metabolism, I would suggest low level aerobics 5 times per week 30 minutes per session.

Pharmacology: It is important that one does not have ANY anabolics that are active in the system during this time period.....make sure that you have had a good 4 weeks since your last shot of long acting compound before you embark on this 4 week receptor clearing cycle....otherwise you are wasting your ****ing time! That being said, I would suggest the use of the following compounds to help accelerate the Receptor Clearing Process:

1. D.N.P. -- Understand that this is a ****ing vicious poison and a component in T.N.T., and I do not suggest it's use at all, but to be fair I must admit that NOTHING can raise the metabolic rate like D.N.P. can. Because this is well known, there are many people that will want to try it...This being the case, D.N.P. should only be used in the following manner during this course: 3 days on, 4 days off at a dose of 4mg per kilogram of bodyweight taken before bed----have plenty of towels around and a fan to keep you cool!
2. Cytomel --T3 is another booster of metabolic rate which is why the fitness models live on this stuff...it keeps you engines running high and burns the fat right off....In this case, we are more concerned with the fact that it increases the metabolic rate. Suggested use is 75mcg -100mcg 5 days on 2 days off for the 4 week course

3. B.M.R. 10--I know, I know shameless plug right...well I don't care, in the past 3 weeks since this product has been released I have people calling me and emailing me telling me that this product blows the doors off every other thermogenic including, E/C/A, Clenbuterol and Cytomel, and Tenuate.....People actually think I put D.N.P. in this product. Trust me I did not, but I did formulate a product with 11 Basil Metabolic Rate increasing compounds that will make you hotter than an oven and melt the fat right off you. Again in this course we are more concerned with the metabolic increase this product will cause. Why hasn't anyone else come up with this formula...#1 All the other companies market to the general public which causes them water down there products #2 it is too expensive for their profit minded companies to justify it's production #3 They are not bodybuilders, I am and I know what works and what doesn not.

Doses: On the days you are NOT using D.N.P. have 4 caps before each of the first 5 meals.

* If you do not wish to use D.N.P.---which I think is the smarter approach as it is very dangerous---you can simply use the B.M.R. 10 on the days that you would be using D.N.P. In my opinion this is smarter, safer and will be just as effective.

There you have it...a brief simple lesson on your receptors and how you might go about keeping them free and clear so you can continue to Grow, Grow, Grow

[Atomini]

^^all of that is a bunch of BS.

No sources cited, no studies, and all of the conclusions and points whoever wrote that comes to is based on conjecture and assumption. I wouldn't follow anything that article says.

[Bob segal]

ya i dont believe it either, just throwing another opinion, to see what people think!!!!

[thunar]

I have to disagree with Ulter's take on receptor sites. The first of my problems with his conclusion is the increase in GH, IGF-1 while taking testosterone . We all know that the test family I think he is referring to(Cyp.Prop.Enan.) does not allow for the user to keep very much of the gains made while on. And since Gh and that family have a history of the user keeping almost all the gains it is hard to comprehend how GH and IGF-1 could increase significantly on that test and the user not keep more of the gains and with that said then the generation of new receptors would also be called into question. Then in his references i saw where he sited


Thompson SH., Boxhorn LK., Kong W., and Allen RE. Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin -like growth factor-I. Endocrinology. 124:2110-2117, 1989

Tren is one of the designers I believe he was saying was not covered in his conclusion. It is 19-nor. just like Deca ,Equi. And all these have one affinity they allow the user to keep more of their gains. Now this is all for nothing if the designer he was speaking of is the Designers supps that have come out lately. If that is the case i fully retract.

Cycling steroids is important to insure their effectiveness. If a person stays on a steroid for to long the receptors will fail to recognize it. This is not experienced if cycles are done properly. This is the reason for the short cycle theories floating around. I personally believe in about 8-10 weeks in length. But that is a personal belief and not one I condone or advise. There has been studies showing the shutting down of receptors in as little as 3 weeks(this is not the norm however). With excessive duration cycles the receptor site gets so over stimulated that they will not respond as they did at the start of the cycle. or at your very first one.

The true conclusion is this. Receptor sites do down regulate. But just as everyone was told in elementary school we are all special ( or should i say unique.Lol) There is no telling how fast each individuals receptors will shut down and no telling how long it takes each individuals receptors will start receiving again. Now throw into the mix all the different types of test their is to take and make it even more complicated. To answer the question who ever set the length of time off = cycle + pct was trying to be conservative and was probably referring to substances more toxic on the liver and kidneys so that they could straighten themselves out. But i do not have any doubt that there is someone some where that would need that long for all their receptors to receive again. It is just not that common.

[Merc..]

Talking about androgen receptors it is fairly safe to say that the receptors dont down regulate , and that they acually increase in density in the presence of more androgen's..

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors, such as, cortisol, glycogen , and SHGB that the body pumps out to bring you back into hematosis ..


Merc.

[thunar]

Talking about androgen receptors it is fairly safe to say that the receptors dont down regulate , and that they acually increase in density in the presence of more androgen's..

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors, such as, cortisol, glycogen , and SHGB that the body pumps out to bring you back into hematosis ..


Merc.

I can concede this. I do know that over a peroid of time cycles lose there effectiveness. And the body always finds a way to balance itself. So it will stop the effect of the surplus of testosterone one way or another.

[Kale]

Got a couple of comments here, first of all PCT is done to allow your natural Testosterone production to restart, it has nothing to do with receptor repair, if there is such a thing. As already stated there are no conclusive studies on any of this. I can comment from my own personal experience, and I agree fully with Merc's comments. I have been shooting test twice a week for the last two years, and three cycles before that and a couple in between. If this receptor stuff were true then mine are well and truley fvcked. However I continue to have high sex drive and my muscle mass is well and truly stable, which would not be the case if downgrading were true IMO