enanthate,cypionate or propionate

[jbonez19]

which would be the best base for strength/mass gains. e at 250mg/ml, cyp at 200mg/ml or prop at 100mg/ml. hoping ChuckLee will reply, would love to pick your brain bro! 5'11" 240lb 37 year old aussie. maybe 20% bodyfat(sad but true). hasn't done shit except train like a dog for years. c'mon guys help me out.

[ChuckLee]

Here I am. I'm glad you asked for me.
Gains depend on diet, first, no matter wich of the test you're gonna use.
Anyway, must use longer esters like Enan and Cyp to bulk, and Prop to cut, bacause it's a shorter ester and is far less susceptible to convert to estrogen=less water retention.
Are you planning to start a cycle? Will this be your first?
I'll be glad to answer any other question you're asking for.

CL

[jbonez19]

yeah thanks buddy, i was thinking about 40% protein. i would go for enan or cyp then. i screwed around with sust and a liquid vet product called stanazol, like 15 years ago. it was real unsuccesful (no internet back then,hard to get info in oz also) so it has been a long time. i feel like i'm getting to the age where if i don't do something soon i'm gonna regret the gains i've made from 20 years training. what would be the max mg p/week that you would take of enan or cyp and which would be your preference. i also need to think about what to stack with as orals are out considering pre-existing bowel condition. thanks for helping.

[soccer#3]

test e or cyp or mass like chucklee said and prop is more for lean body mass.

i've seen people run e at several grams but i think u would see some nice gains at 500mg/ week divided into 2 shots a week. if u want to throw in an oral dbol is a common compound. u are however gonna see some bloat on this cycle.

and dont forget a good pct

[ChuckLee]

I think he said "orals out", so I suggest 250 mg of test E every 3.5 days too, stacked with the most used bulk agent, deca . So:

Test E : 500 mg/week divided in 2 shots
Deca (Nandrolone Undecanoate) : 400 mg/week divided in 2 shots

That is an excellent mass builder for most of us.
For PCT search for Anthony Roberts', as I always suggest.

CL

[soccer#3]

i skimmed that one too fast

second chucklee on test e and deca

[tailspin69]

I, for one, thank you guys. I never really understood what the different tests were for either.

So, for a first cycle, even though I am looking to gain in size, I really don't want to get the puffyness of water retention. Would you suggest I go with test prop or one of the longer ones first for my first cycle and worry about cutting later?

I'm 25, 180#, 9-11% BF, been lifting for 5 years. My diet is extremely clean, and I could probably up the fats. No experience with gear other than a few go arounds with PHs a while ago.

Thanks

[soccer#3]

love that avvy bro haha but ur kinda hijackin this mans thread so im gonna kill 2 birds wit one stone.

yes if u dont want the puffy bloat look from test e or cyp prop is the way to go. but theres a catch to it. prop requires everyday or everyotherday injections, are u up for that? and most prop can cause whats known as prop pain so i suggest u find some prop thats dosed at 50mg/ml.. human grade

[largerthannormal]

all honesty i would check your diet and hit up the cardio a bit more. bd ft% are too high to be considering AAS .. chuck lee may have good advice . but i would advise the diet more than AAS.

[ChuckLee]

all honesty i would check your diet and hit up the cardio a bit more. bd ft% are too high to be considering AAS .. chuck lee may have good advice . but i would advise the diet more than AAS.

Of course, but he didn't mention he's gonna start a cycle.
He's just trying to learn more yet.

CL

[tailspin69]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info! Didn't mean to hijack anything, whoops

[ChuckLee]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info! Didn't mean to hijack anything, whoops

Start your own thread next time.

CL

[largerthannormal]

Of course, but he didn't mention he's gonna start a cycle.
He's just trying to learn more yet.

CL

hoping he will learn to eat better before learning to juice ! i always say AAS is the last part of bodybuilding! just the cherry on top! but yeah i like ur advice! hopefully he will hit up the diet forum as well. most people just think AAS is the majic solution to become a better stronger and more fit person. but in all reality if their diet isnt in check before AAS then when they are on AAS they will see minimal gains and keep practically nothing..I know you know all this CL if mainly referring to him..take care bro.

-LTN

[jbonez19]

yeah cheers you guys. thanks especially CL you rule. i've read the PCT posts, and the starter cycles posts, but i wasn't quite clear on what the best anti-estrogen was during your cycle. i saw it suggested to take letro the whole way through etc. if any-one can tell me what anti-e for during the cycle, when and how much i will be completely set and will owe you guys big time. thanks again. j. one last thing, CL if you were splitting your test E shots and your Deca shots would you take them on the same day or stagger them ie. test E on Sun & Thurs, Deca on Tues and Fri, for example or just take them both on Sun & Thurs??

[largerthannormal]

im not CL but i will answer this for others who read. id split them into 2 shots per week total ...put test and deca in the same shot.. twice a weeks. every 84hrs!

[jbonez19]

totally see what you mean LTN. i had surgery three months ago and was laid up for about two weeks. so my body fat blew out. but i'm hitting the x-trainer like a mad c... and it's coming back down. my diet is good, super clean, it's just my metabolism has dropped with age but my portion size hasn't. don't worry i know it's all about diet. i'd never underestimate that

[jbonez19]

that makes complete sense. that was a stupid fu..... question in hindsight. thanks LTN. anti-estrogens any-one?

[largerthannormal]

no questions are stupid man...good for asking! well thats good your diet is better. dont worry bro muscle goes hand in hand with metablosim. the more musclw you have the higher metablosim rate. just keep up the good work. feel free to ask any questions anytime. no question is dumb, better safe than sorry bro. and for the anti - e 's are you talking for PCT or during cycle? if your running deca and test during cycle i would run A-dex! stay away from nolva on deca bro.

[largerthannormal]

oopd i just looked back and seen this is your first cycle. i would drop the deca bro....no matter what ur gonna get a bit puffy. but i still suggest a longer ester like test Enanthate and thats it..now you could keep nolva or liguidex on hand during cycle for that ... then pct should be Nolva clomid possibly hcg but prolly hcg not needed!

[jbonez19]

you guys are the best! i'm glad i found this forum. you'll be seeing me around for a while. cheers fella's. j

[largerthannormal]

were glad to hear bro! keep us updated !

[PT]

hey chuck is that you in your avater? if so you have a hell of a back bro

[RJstrong]

Do you have to pic just one...lol. I like to Frontload long and short esters together.

[largerthannormal]

Do you have to pic just one...lol. I like to Frontload long and short esters together.

[RJstrong]

Just giving advice from actual experience. If you would like to chime in with something other than a smilie it might make for a better conversation, but here you go...

[jbonez19]

i appreciate all advice. you cannot know/read too much. wish i had this forum 15 years ago when i was in my 20s.

[largerthannormal]

Just giving advice from actual experience. If you would like to chime in with something other than a smilie it might make for a better conversation, but here you go...

thats not a smile thats a face meaning i didnt understand your comment. is there really a need for you to start acting all big over the computer? i wasnt flaming bro if i was youw ould know it. im not the type to fight over something so dumb as to a smily face. if there is sumthing u would like to discuss please feel free to PM me bro..take care though!

[largerthannormal]

this was a thread about cycle diet and u CHIMMED in with a frontload answer. feel free to start your own thread

[BuffBuffalo]

love that avvy bro haha but ur kinda hijackin this mans thread so im gonna kill 2 birds wit one stone.

yes if u dont want the puffy bloat look from test e or cyp prop is the way to go. but theres a catch to it. prop requires everyday or everyotherday injections, are u up for that? and most prop can cause whats known as prop pain so i suggest u find some prop thats dosed at 50mg/ml.. human grade

Yes thats definitly something you should consider. You may not be up for the frequent sticks especially if you're a new user.

[legobricks]

hey chuck is that you in your avater? if so you have a hell of a back bro

No it isnt. That is Lee Priest.

[legobricks]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info! Didn't mean to hijack anything, whoops

Please choose a more suitable avatar....like one without profanity in it.

[jbonez19]

hey LTN is that avatar Chuck Liddell. looks like Chuck when he does his Kempo-Pit salute. chuck is one bad m'er f'er.

[RJstrong]

this was a thread about cycle diet and u CHIMMED in with a frontload answer. feel free to start your own thread

Rather than start another thread on something as basic as frontloading maybe I can just help you out right here... along with the bro that was asking what type of test to run.

Frontloading is as basic concept that has worked well for me over the years. The basic idea is to start big and wind down as the weeks go on. You can do this with a stack or you can do this simply with fast and slow acting esters of test. Now I know for sure that my experience is far more vast than yours and the bro asking the question so his mg dose will need to be much less however here is an example of front loading with test...

week 1-4: 1000 mg enath. x wk, 100mg prop x day
week 5-8: 1000 mg enath. x wk
week 8-12: 750 mg enath x wk
week 13-16: 500 mg enath x wk and on with the proper pct

It's all about starting with a bang and lowering the dose from there. Prop is great to frontload with due to the instant gratification (although I prefer suspension)... rather than waiting for the Enath to kick in 3-4 weeks later. This is just an idea using easy to work with numbers and is for someone more advanced... but I think you get the idea. Just trying to help... not trying to be a d*ck. but I have to admit I would rather discuss ideas than talk with smilies... oh and by the way I dont have to act big, just trust me on that one...

[jbonez19]

cheers RJ, not that i'm about to jump to those levels but would you definitely run an anti-estrogen with those test-e levels. if so, what do u recommend and how much? nice deadlift! j

[RJstrong]

cheers RJ, not that i'm about to jump to those levels but would you definitely run an anti-estrogen with those test-e levels. if so, what do u recommend and how much? nice deadlift! j

first of thanks brother... the deadlift is always a work in progress! In regards to your question... Yes I will and I prefer Arimidex . Just seems to work the best for me. I like to run it thru most of the cycle usual at a minimal dose unless otherwise needed. I have 0.5 mg pills that I will take thru the cycle typically Mon, Wed, Fri. If the outer chest/armpit/nipple area gets a little itchy (always my body's warning sign) I will up it accordingly, for example Mon-Fri. However, if started from the beginning Mon, Wed, Fri seems to sufficient for me. Just stay really tuned in to your body and you will be fine. I hope this helps.

[lmsays]

My first cycle was deca only for some reason but after that it was several test cycles. I did some old Brovel Test 200 @ 600mg/week, 1 shot per week. For someone starting out this is just fine. It's kinda like the difference between running test p every day vs EOD. I'm sure everyone's going to say that your blood levels won't be stable. It's somewhat true, but your still going to make great gains with 1 less stick per week.

[largerthannormal]

Rather than start another thread on something as basic as frontloading maybe I can just help you out right here... along with the bro that was asking what type of test to run.

Frontloading is as basic concept that has worked well for me over the years. The basic idea is to start big and wind down as the weeks go on. You can do this with a stack or you can do this simply with fast and slow acting esters of test. Now I know for sure that my experience is far more vast than yours and the bro asking the question so his mg dose will need to be much less however here is an example of front loading with test...

week 1-4: 1000 mg enath. x wk, 100mg prop x day
week 5-8: 1000 mg enath. x wk
week 8-12: 750 mg enath x wk
week 13-16: 500 mg enath x wk and on with the proper pct

It's all about starting with a bang and lowering the dose from there. Prop is great to frontload with due to the instant gratification (although I prefer suspension)... rather than waiting for the Enath to kick in 3-4 weeks later. This is just an idea using easy to work with numbers and is for someone more advanced... but I think you get the idea. Just trying to help... not trying to be a d*ck. but I have to admit I would rather discuss ideas than talk with smilies... oh and by the way I dont have to act big, just trust me on that one...

i dont understand who u are referring to here. first off he had no questions about frontloading! it was a thread about a specific cycle and diet and anit-e's bro. for the last time i wasnt burning you . i was asking what your post had to do with this thread? its not a smiley face as u can tell. i know your a big guy i seen ur profile bro. again a pointless fact! i was trying to help the guy with his questions not randomly blurt out that RJ frontlaods! whoopy! i dont think any one will agree with your cycle for a first timer bro.

[Njord]

Rather than start another thread on something as basic as frontloading maybe I can just help you out right here... along with the bro that was asking what type of test to run.

Frontloading is as basic concept that has worked well for me over the years. The basic idea is to start big and wind down as the weeks go on. You can do this with a stack or you can do this simply with fast and slow acting esters of test. Now I know for sure that my experience is far more vast than yours and the bro asking the question so his mg dose will need to be much less however here is an example of front loading with test...

week 1-4: 1000 mg enath. x wk, 100mg prop x day
week 5-8: 1000 mg enath. x wk
week 8-12: 750 mg enath x wk
week 13-16: 500 mg enath x wk and on with the proper pct

It's all about starting with a bang and lowering the dose from there. Prop is great to frontload with due to the instant gratification (although I prefer suspension)... rather than waiting for the Enath to kick in 3-4 weeks later. This is just an idea using easy to work with numbers and is for someone more advanced... but I think you get the idea. Just trying to help... not trying to be a d*ck. but I have to admit I would rather discuss ideas than talk with smilies... oh and by the way I dont have to act big, just trust me on that one...

What you are suggesting here is not frontloading. That is a downward pyramid or whatever you want to call it.

[largerthannormal]

yeah i dont understand him either bro. its a thread about a first timers cycle and he throws that out there..hmmmmmm u think a comp. body builder would give better info

[RJstrong]

yeah i dont understand him either bro. its a thread about a first timers cycle and he throws that out there..hmmmmmm u think a comp. body builder would give better info

Sorry about that.