concentration of gear really have anything to do with pain??

[NATE0406]

i hear ppl say that the concentration of you gear can cause pain. but my question is why does prop/tren cause more pain at a lesser concentration than say cyp or enth. does is have to do with the ester of your gear???

[jAcKeD!!!!]

bump , curious to hear the answer.

[NATE0406]

last bump of the night. i will check back tomarrow and see if anyone has a clue.

[Lemonada8]

well, i'm thinking it has to do with the prop ester not being as soluble in oil/bb, so it requires more ba, which causes pain.. because test susp itself isnt painful, its just the numerous injections... so i'm thinkin its the insolubliity of the ester... and of course the ba content, virgin muscle, etc... which i'm sure u already know...

[Amorphic]

its due to the ester. short chained esters are more irritating to the muscle fibres.

[NATE0406]

so it really doesnt have to do anything with concentration of gear?? its just that so many ppl say that due a high concentration that your gear will hurt more when injected so i got to thinking about it and i couldnt realy see where it would matter. but its not really true. i see what you guys are saying and it makes sence.

[shifty_git]

Like morph said, short chained esters are more irritating to muscle fibres. (to do with size)

So as the muscle then breaks down a prop ester quicker that 'sting / pain / irritation' is released in a quicker burst, so will be more intense as its a higher dose of pain in a short amount of time.

Long esters themselves are less painful, and then released over longer amounts of time - so feel much easier.

This is why then obviously as the concentration is increased, something like a prop ester will have a much more noticeable effect than say an enan ester.

[slvrwrx]

Not really sure if this helps but took deca 300 for a while it definatly burned a bunch more then the deca 100 i take now. I feel no after pain on the 100 the 300 would definatly give me some discomfort. Granted what im taking now is human grade and the other was vet grade. Not really sure if this helps or makes a difference just given some input

[jaysunderstudy]

I could see, I mean someone who makes a homebrew of test 600mg/ml I'd expect to be more painful than say test 300mg/ml. since there is more solvent required to make the hormone go into solution. Also it mainly depends on the person too and what solvents are used to make the gear. But yeah prop is generally painful at least for me, its just the nature of the beast. course I have used prop that was painless and prop that was painful.
But basically it boils down to the % of solvents, the ester of the gear, and the strength. Thats the 3 factors I can think of.

[jAcKeD!!!!]

Like morph said, short chained esters are more irritating to muscle fibres. (to do with size)

So as the muscle then breaks down a prop ester quicker that 'sting / pain / irritation' is released in a quicker burst, so will be more intense as its a higher dose of pain in a short amount of time.

Long esters themselves are less painful, and then released over longer amounts of time - so feel much easier.

This is why then obviously as the concentration is increased, something like a prop ester will have a much more noticeable effect than say an enan ester.

i am usin a ugl prop/tren and i dont get that sting/pain/irritation.. ive been hearin it could be from the BA or whatever?

[shifty_git]

i am usin a ugl prop/tren and i dont get that sting/pain/irritation.. ive been hearin it could be from the BA or whatever?

Yeah BA (benzyl alcohol the anti-bacterial) stings like a b!tch - Pharm grade tends to be 1% (as they have mega sterile methods for producing the gear)

Experienced UGL's and a lot of guys who homebrew go with 2% as they will know how clean the area they used is.

Random UGL's tend to go up to 5%, just to make sure.

Also depends on Carrier - i.e type of oil (some guys bodies generally react better to certain oils rather than others) and if there EO used in the mix (for some guys EO makes the mix even easier on them, some find it irritates and can generally make them feel crap)

[jAcKeD!!!!]

so your saying the higher the % the less it hurts?

[shifty_git]

so your saying the higher the % the less it hurts?

Higher BA % = More pain.

But some guys are just more naturally sensitive to it in general.

Have read guys who tend not to like and react badly to perfume smells (its used in perfumes) is oddly an indicator on how you react to it generally.

[NATE0406]

bump for more conversation..and so me and lex can stop hogging the other thread. lol

[WEBB]

Ok, here is how it goes as a general rule.....

as ba% goes up so does pain
as concentration goes up so does pain
as the amount of short estered compounds involved pain goes up
eg. T400 has a lot of prop and also a high concentration=PAIN
eg. deca no short ester but a higher concentration=no pain
eg. prop or tren short esters=PAIN...usually

now some exceptions are the oil it is made with, take ethyl oleate it is painless and you can use it to make unusaul combo's and high concentrations with little to no pain...

these are general rules and i know someone is gonna say well what about blah blah blah...and you will be right, but these are just general rules to follow...

any questions?

[lex57]

ok here it is fellas, as i said in a previous post.

#1. if it has nothing to do with concentration, then test prop dosed at 1 mg/ml would be as painful as test prop dosed at 200 mg/ml.

#2. now lets say that i have the same test p, homebrewed, with no ba, and it hurts like a mofo. would cutting it with sterile oil help? and if it does are we changing the ester? no, we are changing the concentration of the hormone.

[lex57]

Ok, here is how it goes as a general rule.....

as ba% goes up so does pain
as concentration goes up so does pain
as the amount of short estered compounds involved pain goes up
eg. T400 has a lot of prop and also a high concentration=PAIN
eg. deca no short ester but a higher concentration=no pain
eg. prop or tren short esters=PAIN...usually

now some exceptions are the oil it is made with, take ethyl oleate it is painless and you can use it to make unusaul combo's and high concentrations with little to no pain...

these are general rules and i know someone is gonna say well what about blah blah blah...and you will be right, but these are just general rules to follow...

any questions?

i agree with everything here and i even said most of this in the other thread.

[NATE0406]

ok here it is fellas, as i said in a previous post.

#1. if it has nothing to do with concentration, then test prop dosed at 1 mg/ml would be as painful as test prop dosed at 200 mg/ml.

#2. now lets say that i have the same test p, homebrewed, with no ba, and it hurts like a mofo. cutting it with sterile oil will not help? and if it does are we changing the ester? no, we are changing the concentration of the hormone.

like i said i understand what you are saying but no one should know what test prop feels like without BA. but what you are saying to me is that 100mgs/ml of test hurts worse than 250mgs/ml of test. .. like i said before the only real diff between prop and enth is the ester so how can it cause more pain at a much lower dose. its the ester.

[NATE0406]

now i do agree with the fact that if you shot a gram of aas in your ass that its going to hurt. but i think that concentration = pain is over exagerated. my opinion is that its the ester and BA. but im trying to irritate anyone i just wanted more opinions and good convo.

[lex57]

dude i took the ba out of the equation hypothetically saying that ba would not be the cause of the pain............................

[WEBB]

i know what prop feels like without BA...i have made it and used it only on myself but it was not painless but hurt less...there are alot more factors here we have not mentioned...

injection methiod
injection site
asparation
shaky pin hand
maybe he does delt shot and then trains shoulders
all sorts of things really effect the shot so just sayin its ba or its esters is not fair....

also 250mg of test can hurt just as bad as 100mg of test depending on the ester or type it is...

lets not just say it is one thing....there are many factors...just like why you cant gain weight, diet, cycle, training, stress...all sorts of thiings...

[WEBB]

now i do agree with the fact that if you shot a gram of aas in your ass that its going to hurt. but i think that concentration = pain is over exagerated. my opinion is that its the ester and BA. but im trying to irritate anyone i just wanted more opinions and good convo.

t400 hurts more than sust 250...why cause of the concentration of the compounds....even if the ba is identical the pain will more than likely be greater due to concentration....

[lex57]

now i do agree with the fact that if you shot a gram of aas in your ass that its going to hurt. but i think that concentration = pain is over exagerated.

oh my god bro............... then why did you post this like an hour ago. what a waste of time.....................so which is it a "myth" or "over exagerated" "Originally Posted by NATE0406
IMO concentration has nothing to do with pain.. maybe the short ester has something to do with it. i personally think that "the concentration = pain" is a total myth. if it did then test e or c would hurt a lot more than prop.. i have yet to see anyone prove or any rasionallity to back up that myth.."

[NATE0406]

i know what prop feels like without BA...i have made it and used it only on myself but it was not painless but hurt less...there are alot more factors here we have not mentioned...

injection methiod
injection site
asparation
shaky pin hand
maybe he does delt shot and then trains shoulders
all sorts of things really effect the shot so just sayin its ba or its esters is not fair....

also 250mg of test can hurt just as bad as 100mg of test depending on the ester or type it is...

lets not just say it is one thing....there are many factors...just like why you cant gain weight, diet, cycle, training, stress...all sorts of thiings...

i understand that pain can be caused from many diff reasons. but there has to be a reason the prop hurts a lot more ppl than long esterd test.

dude i took the ba out of the equation hypothetically saying that ba would not be the cause of the pain............................

bro i wasnt saying that you did. but ill drop it becasue it seems that everyone thinks that i am trying to get agressive with this but i just wanted good convo because we have been deprived of a decent legit aas question. but like i said before im not totally ruling out the idea i just think that it has very little to do with it.

[lex57]

i know what prop feels like without BA...i have made it and used it only on myself but it was not painless but hurt less...there are alot more factors here we have not mentioned...

injection methiod
injection site
asparation
shaky pin hand
maybe he does delt shot and then trains shoulders
all sorts of things really effect the shot so just sayin its ba or its esters is not fair....

also 250mg of test can hurt just as bad as 100mg of test depending on the ester or type it is...

lets not just say it is one thing....there are many factors...just like why you cant gain weight, diet, cycle, training, stress...all sorts of thiings...

still agree 100%

this is from the other thread too: "well if this your first cycle it is probably a mix of virgin muscle and just the unknown of prop pain. my point of asking you if you thought it was the ba, is that all gear has like 1 or 2 % ba in the mix and very rarely does the ba content have anything to do with pain. reason being if all gear has 1 or 2 % ba content then why would not all gear give everyone pain then? usually it is the concentration of the hormone and/or a short ester that will contribute to the pain. now if some gear has 5 or 6 % ba content then yes this could be a problem, but you have to ask yourself why is it 9 times out of 10 "prop pain" ? i say concentration of gear combined with short ester. then when you add to the mix your situation of virgin muscle into the equation, you have the trifecta."

[NATE0406]

oh my god bro............... then why did you post this like an hour ago. what a waste of time.....................so which is it a "myth" or "over exagerated" "Originally Posted by NATE0406
IMO concentration has nothing to do with pain.. maybe the short ester has something to do with it. i personally think that "the concentration = pain" is a total myth. if it did then test e or c would hurt a lot more than prop.. i have yet to see anyone prove or any rasionallity to back up that myth.."

well please explain to me why prop hurts more than enth.. if you can answer that question with a reasonable answer about concentration then i will drop this. no one knows for sure. . so me stating what i did is not an outlandish statement to make.

[lex57]

i understand that pain can be caused from many diff reasons. but there has to be a reason the prop hurts a lot more ppl than long esterd test.

bro i wasnt saying that you did. but ill drop it becasue it seems that everyone thinks that i am trying to get agressive with this but i just wanted good convo because we have been deprived of a decent legit aas question. but like i said before im not totally ruling out the idea i just think that it has very little to do with it.

hey man i respect your opinion, i have no hard feelings whatsoever! i respect you, you always have good info and advice, we just disagree. thats all so lest kick back and listen to what everyone else has to say...........peace!

[NATE0406]

well at least you have tried to eplain it. when i posted this thread no one could really back that statement. ill check back tomorrow and see if anyone else has an opinion. later guys got to get my sleep.

[WEBB]

well please explain to me why prop hurts more than enth.. if you can answer that question with a reasonable answer about concentration then i will drop this. no one knows for sure. point is everything that you have stated is parroted info. so me stating what i did is not an outlandish statement to make.

like it was said before pain is from a few different causes...in the case of prop and test e it is due to the short ester of the prop not concentration...in the case of t400 to sust250 and why t400 hurts more it is concentration...

do u inderstand what i mean...i am not trying to be a dick, and i know it just sounded like i am but i just wanna answer your question and i love the convo and no one thinks your gettin aggresive....if you did i would ban you...

[lex57]

well please explain to me why prop hurts more than enth.. if you can answer that question with a reasonable answer about concentration then i will drop this. no one knows for sure. point is everything that you have stated is parroted info. so me stating what i did is not an outlandish statement to make.

parroted info? wow, i am not even wearing my eyepatch. i'll tell you what give me an example of what i have parroted. show me where someone else has given the analogies that i have. that are 100% to the point. from my experience, and my head. i dont need to parrot shit. and i even said in the other thread that i couldnt explain it scientifically, if i was a ****in parrot though i would have searched it or copy and pasted something, but guess what i dont need too. and why do i have to give you an explanation about why it is concentration, why dont you give me the proof that its not. thats what i thought.

[NATE0406]

parroted info? wow, i am not even wearing my eyepatch. i'll tell you what give me an example of what i have parroted. show me where someone else has given the analogies that i have. that are 100% to the point. from my experience, and my head. i dont need to parrot shit. and i even said in the other thread that i couldnt explain it scientifically, if i was a ****in parrot though i would have searched it or copy and pasted something, but guess what i dont need too. and why do i have to give you an explanation about why it is concentration, why dont you give me the proof that its not. thats what i thought.

listen bro i didnt mean that they way it came out. i meant that i was just thinking about it under my own opinion not what i have read. thats why i was going against the grain. sorry if it came out the wrong way bro i will edit.

[lex57]

listen bro i didnt mean that they way it came out. i meant that i was just thinking about it under my own opinion not what i have read. thats why i was going against the grain. sorry if it came out the wrong way bro i will edit.

dont edit it bro, then my eyepatch line is no good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NATE0406]

dont edit it bro, then my eyepatch line is no good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha sure it is... trying to save face here. lol

[NATE0406]

dont worry its still in your quote. lol

[WEBB]

awww you two kiss and make up.....thats soooo cute....GAY...

[NATE0406]

awww you two kiss and make up.....thats soooo cute....GAY...

you want in on this or what.. bring that girl in your avatar with you though. lol

[NATE0406]

awww you two kiss and make up.....thats soooo cute....GAY...

and i wouldnt want you to start sending warnings and baning ppl..lol hint the sarcasm..

[WEBB]

that girl is my girl...hahaha...and no i wouldnt want to be the meat in an all veggie sandwhich...

keep it up and your gonna be on my short list of "to Be Banned"....

[Garbanzo Dude]

So I used masteron propinate during the last 3.5 weeks of my last cycle of test cyp. and felt no pain......was that becasue muscles were no longer virgin, because I had been shooting test cyp for 6 weeks already?? Also is test prop more painful than masteron?

[WEBB]

prop with masteron will cause a bit less pain cause you are diluting it in a way...its like some guys add b12 to prop to help...and also yes your muscles were a little more used to the injections too...