Short Cycles??? Good Read!!!!!!

[zircon]

Cycle 1: 2 weeks

prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT clomid 12 days 50mg
A bit of acne during pct

cycle 2: 2 weeks
prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT 12 days 50mg
A bit of acne during pct


Cycle 3: 18 days
prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod, 30mg tbol per day. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT nolva 14 days 20mg
Quite a lot of acne during cycle, a LOT of acne during pct on my back. Not sure if I recovered properly from this one. Dunno if it was nolva or not, but prob not doing pct without clomid again. gained 5kg (quite a bit of water I think), in the end only kept about 1-1.5kg. I did get sick twice during cycle though, so was far from ideal.

Cycle 4: currently 125mg prop eod, 4weeks.
Starting week 4 now. 4 kg up, dont seem to much water, but will be at least 2 kg water I think. Hope to keep 3 kg, I think ti will be closer to 2 though.

I'm on 40mg accutane right now, started 3 weeks ago with cycle. After this I'll take 5 months off aas, for accutane. Then maybe do 10 weeker plain test.

Not sure if its fluctuating hormones causing this (2 on 4 off), or the tren, or pct. Clomid and nolva DEF cause me acne (I tried it just before this last cycle - acne flared up again on day 3 of clomid 100mg per day)

This stuff works. I'm not sure if 2 x 9 weekers a year are better though. Prob not on lipid levels, but this acne drove me ****ing nuts, otherwise I'd def still be doing 2 weekers.

Anything else?

[zircon]

So after 4 cycle, I estimate to be up about 8kg...a total of 10 weeks cyclign. Not too bad eh? If onyl not for the acne...

[Phreak101]

I recently blasted a 4 week blitz cycle of 250 mg sus, 200 mg deca , and 50mg var ED and I blew up pretty decently.

Makes me wonder about all the new claims I'm seeing that drugs like EQ MUST be run for 12 weeks minimum to work, Var MUST be run 50mgs ED or you won't see shit, 2 IU's of GH is worthless, etc. I sometimes wonder if the American ideal of go hard or go home applies to AAS...

[don anabolico]

Cycle 1: 2 weeks

prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT clomid 12 days 50mg
A bit of acne during pct

cycle 2: 2 weeks
prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT 12 days 50mg
A bit of acne during pct


Cycle 3: 18 days
prop 125mg eod, tren 50mg eod, 30mg tbol per day. gained and kept 2kg.
PCT nolva 14 days 20mg
Quite a lot of acne during cycle, a LOT of acne during pct on my back. Not sure if I recovered properly from this one. Dunno if it was nolva or not, but prob not doing pct without clomid again. gained 5kg (quite a bit of water I think), in the end only kept about 1-1.5kg. I did get sick twice during cycle though, so was far from ideal.

Cycle 4: currently 125mg prop eod, 4weeks.
Starting week 4 now. 4 kg up, dont seem to much water, but will be at least 2 kg water I think. Hope to keep 3 kg, I think ti will be closer to 2 though.

I'm on 40mg accutane right now, started 3 weeks ago with cycle. After this I'll take 5 months off aas, for accutane. Then maybe do 10 weeker plain test.

Not sure if its fluctuating hormones causing this (2 on 4 off), or the tren, or pct. Clomid and nolva DEF cause me acne (I tried it just before this last cycle - acne flared up again on day 3 of clomid 100mg per day)

This stuff works. I'm not sure if 2 x 9 weekers a year are better though. Prob not on lipid levels, but this acne drove me ****ing nuts, otherwise I'd def still be doing 2 weekers.

Anything else?

how long did were you off between cycles. did you start again straight after pct?

[zircon]

nope 2 on 4 off....and pct was about 2 weeks long.

Never did any blood tests, so can't tell what happened. After 3rd cycle I didnt feel 100%, not sure if supressed from tren , or using nolva instead of clomid sucked, or cycle was longer than 2 weeks (it was 18 days), or was sick twice during cycle...too many variables to know what happened.

The only reason i dont do short cycles now is acne. If I could do short cycles I'd pick prop for sure, not sure sure abotu tren, because of suppression, although tren A was bloody amazing for strength, even at only 50mg eod for me.

Dbol var should be good. Tbol is good, didn't keep much of it after 3rd cycle though. NPP is good as well, again not too sure of supression.

[don anabolico]

im thinking about running that tren and var with 500mg of b12 and cialis.
how else do you think they would of delt with the tren and no test?

[Duke of Earl]

OK I'm in - I've never used tren , cos I've been too scared of it's legendary ability to accelerate hairloss, but I'm hoping a 2 weeker shouldn't give me too many probs in that department.
Here's my proposed cycle (numbers = days, not weeks!)

1-11 Test Prop 50mg ED (150mg frontload on day 1)
1-12 Tren Acetate 50mg ED (100mg frontload on day 1)
1-14 Tbol 45mg ED
1-30 IGF 50mcg ED (continues through PCT)


(Already on dutasteride .5mg ED & have cabergoline, nolva & letro just incase)

(Start PCT on day 15 - clomid 1 week @100mg, 10 days @50mg continuing at 50mg if neccessary)

Waddya think for a lean gain cycle?

[zircon]

Yes it's good. Not sure how you react to prop personally I'd run it on 75mg ed. But ythen again on my last cycle which is similar to this...I blew up 5 kg in 15 days...frickin amazing. It was werid though. After 10 days I dropped 3 kg of this (some bloat from tbol - I stopped the prop early, so shouldn't have been it). But I was also sick twice during that cycle. F up, woudla liked to see how that would have gone if i hadn't got sick.

Would really like to see your results. When you gonna start"? CYcle history? Last cycle, and time since last cycle? Just be 100% sure you are completely recovered from previous cycle, otherwise this short cycle stuff won't work.

[Duke of Earl]

Would really like to see your results. When you gonna start"? CYcle history? Last cycle, and time since last cycle? Just be 100% sure you are completely recovered from previous cycle, otherwise this short cycle stuff won't work.

Well have been off (except for IGF) for 5 months - last cycle was tbol (50mg ED) & prop (65mg ED) for around 8 weeks starting IGF a week before PCT & running it through pct for another 3 weeks - ( I feel I have recovered completely)

I'm 6'2, approx 210lbs & 12%BF
Modest goals - wanna be at 215 % 8-10% BF, so not far off now

Yeah - you could be right about the prop - I may run it a little higher

[hulkzer]

OK I'm in - I've never used tren , cos I've been too scared of it's legendary ability to accelerate hairloss, but I'm hoping a 2 weeker shouldn't give me too many probs in that department.
Here's my proposed cycle (numbers = days, not weeks!)

1-11 Test Prop 50mg ED (150mg frontload on day 1)
1-12 Tren Acetate 50mg ED (100mg frontload on day 1)
1-14 Tbol 45mg ED
1-30 IGF 50mcg ED (continues through PCT)


(Already on dutasteride .5mg ED & have cabergoline, nolva & letro just incase)

(Start PCT on day 15 - clomid 1 week @100mg, 10 days @50mg continuing at 50mg if neccessary)

Waddya think for a lean gain cycle?

keep us posted im looking into a simaler cycle or cycle's if i like the gains.
zer

[Testostack]

That was one of hell read, very good one in fact!

[ImACrazyJewDaddy]

Nice read. But just wondering, would a cycle of Tbol and Fina for say about 4-6 weeks be good for a really good strength inducer/Lean lb?

[DEVLDOG]

7 cycles a year equals 7 pct's...pct is harder on your system then a cycle is.I'll stay on my 5yr cycle plan...1yr in,4 more to go before i come clean.

[zircon]

lol...welcome to trt...

I also wonder about the pct though. I'm goign to try moderate dose test (500mg for 9 weeks) twice a year. Sure my lipids will take a bit of a dive, but we only live once. Also think it may be a bit healtheir than whacko hormone levels the whole year through. And the acne oh my gad...I get from 2 weekers...christmas lol, I dont want that again. Hopefully I'll be ok after long cycles, and control it with some accutane.

[chuck89gt5.0]

I have done a couple shorter cycles and 1 really long one (20+weeks) and I managed to keep basically all my gains from the longer cycle. I think 12 weeks is a bare minimum. 16 weeks is ideal for most.

[hulkzer]

has anyone tried any of these short cycle since he started this thread "10-20-2002". if so did anyone have succes.
zer_

[tallyjuice]

good question

[Flex2winny]

When dextrose, maltodextrin, and all other refined carbohydrates (white bread, donuts, bagels, soda etc.) enter the system, blood glucose levels are increased at a fast rate, reaching a high peak and putting the body in hyperglycemia mode. What happens next is an equally strong insulin response from the pancreas, to bring blood sugar back to normal.

At first glance, this combination has merit as far as bodybuilding goes; the sugar rush, high insulin levels, and almost ready-to-use protein source, all contribute to ending the stress and trauma the body has been going through during the workout. Insulin is indeed one of the system's most anabolic hormone [to muscle and adipose tissue] and the sugar can be used to replenish glycogen stores, thus switching the body from catabolic to anabolic mode, where recovery and growth can start taking place.

But looking further down into this process, we can see that there might be a better way to gaining lean body mass. The carbohydrates we ingest cannot stay in the bloodstream for long, otherwise we'd die of prolonged hyperglycemia. They have two different pathways;

1. They are directed by insulin to muscle tissue, and stored in the form of glycogen to fuel the muscles, assisting the recovery process, and give them the fullness we all seek.

2. They are directed by insulin to fat tissue, and stored as adipose in the cells, making the waist bigger and the chest "flabbier."

In most cases, it is a combination of both, depending on the amount ingested, the type of carbohydrate, as well as the system's sensitivity to insulin.

Eating refined carbohydrates day-in and day-out reduces the sensitivity of the insulin receptors in the muscles, just like a continuous use of stimulants such as caffeine, ephedrine etc. As time goes by, you need bigger quantities of it in order to feel a difference.

In the case of insulin sensitivity reduction due to frequent ingestion of high glycemic carbohydrates, the pancreas would be required to pump out more and more insulin in order to lower blood glucose. This translates into a higher ratio of glucose being fed to adipose tissue rather than muscle glycogen. In other words, being less insulin sensitive promotes higher fat gain and lower rate of muscle building.

In the case of sedentary people eating a diet comprised of processed foods, saturated fats and sugar, this lowering insulin sensitivity can lead to type-2 diabetes and obesity.

By taking a different route than the whey and dextrose/maltodextrin approach to post-workout nutrition based on the concept of insulin management, we can ultimately improve the muscle building process over time.

An alternative source of carbohydrate would be one that is unrefined, slightly fibrous, and nutrient-dense. Examples would be natural oatmeal, sweet potato, wild rice etc.

When ingested, these foods take longer to break down due to their complex structure, fiber content, and wholeness. Insulin is increased at a slower rate, sugar levels remain stable, without skyrocketing then dropping, body stays in anabolic mode longer due to absence of insulin spike, muscle glycogen is replenished, and most of all, there is a far smaller risk of nutrient spillover.

This translates into:

- A higher ratio of muscle-to-fat being built

- Absence of blood glucose crash after insulin is secreted, and hence absence of a catabolic period

- Reduced risk of carbohydrate spillover and hence fat gain

- Better insulin sensitivity in the long run

- Better satiety from eating a whole meal rather than a shake that is gulped down in a few seconds

- Better overall health

- Improved cholesterol levels and ratio (essential for AAS users)

An example of such a post-workout feeding could comprise;

- Oatmeal (quantity dependent on goal - ~110g dry weight would be a good start) or sweet potato

- Egg whites (7 to 10) or another source of low fat animal protein

- Protein powder (could be mixed in the oats [whey, or a blend of whey, casein, and egg])

It is preferable to avoid eating fat with this meal, as a combination of insulin and fat is is not ideal as far as nutrient partitioning is concerned.

The inclusion of slower digesting protein instead of a whey-only approach serves at keeping a steady amount of amino acid levels in the blood after training. Whey digests at such a fast rate that a certain portion of it might turn into glucose/lipid providing a source of energy to the body instead of being used as a building block for tissue repair.

A meal should be eaten 1.5 to 2.5 hours later to keep the recovery process going.

Finally, it is important to note that lifting weights does not deplete glycogen stores like cardiovascular exercise does; having a well-structured nutrition plan for the whole day is more important than putting all one's focus on post-workout nutrition alone.











©Anabolic Extreme 2004 All rights reserved

[ODC0717]

this kind of cycling sounds awefully close to Author L. Rea's theories in CME, and BTPB. Perhaps they share similar insights...

[Receiver84]

I'd love to try this but I need to hear some results. I'm going to research this more.

[hulkzer]

bump

has anyone tried any of these short cycle since he started this thread "10-20-2002". if so did anyone have succes.
zer_

[Timm1704]

maybe put it in the educational posts? it is, afterall, very educational....

[cloud_strife]

I have done a couple shorter cycles and 1 really long one (20+weeks) and I managed to keep basically all my gains from the longer cycle. I think 12 weeks is a bare minimum. 16 weeks is ideal for most.

what PCt did you use?

[Nitro29]

Bro do you know how old this thread is?

[StritationOrBust]

meh, 3 year old post =/

[cloud_strife]

sorry

[Pittbull78]

????

[lovex]

bump

[Testostack]

Would be great to hear of people who have done short cycles.I always do a 12 week cycle,a truly great thread, great to hear a different approach on taking ASS.

goose4.......

Good to hear some ppl admiting the long term cycle is the "only" way to think ,without being flamed if induced otherwise...