FAO Marcus300

[firestar]

I read you need a good foundation before gear use. If you would be kind enough to answer my questions:

1. Give me the reasons why you need a foundation
2. What would class as a foundation
3. What do you risk without having any foundation whatsoever, in other words, being a fat ****.

Thank you.

[Big]

I'll step down and let Marcus answer this since that is where you directed the question, however it concerns me that you have been giving advice while not knowing the answers to basic questions like these.

[Lemonada8]

well nevermind then, if you 'know the answers' then why ask? to see what he says? just pm him.....

[firestar]

Mate, I do know the answers, I want to see what he says. Thats all.

Dear Lemonoda, your answers are very jumbled and is a ramble. This whole you need a foundation thing is rubbish, you can start from utter scratch and immediately on steroids considering you know/have the following things.

1.

-Training - correct form, correct routine, correct cadance. In terms of foundation, you must know how to lift to build muscle, because if you cannot train said muscle group, the rest of it is useless to be frank! Having said that, AAS force muscle onto you, you dont have to visit the gym at all, all is required is a sufficient diet. Sufficient being at least 1g/1lb for protein intake, and calories do not really matter. (They gave dbol to prisoners of war, they were starved and anorexic so foundation counts for **** all)

For ligaments and tendons, yes that is correct, the power output increases yet the tissues that support these movements cannot handle it and you are prone to injury, if you use AAS without any prevoius lifting, you are more susceptible to injury. Injury can be prevented by not being a silly shit and going into the realm of what you cannot lift.

The diet and training comment is fair, but if I took a 10 year layoff, lost all my muscle mass, I'd be able to train and eat like this all over again, its a question of if you know what your doing.

Used to the stress of what? Worser effects of stress? Where did this come from.

2.

Several years? It takes no time at all to learn correct form and technique, I'd put it at a month max for people who are lazy at best. Several years is absurd.

BF% should be in the 12% region or lower. Although it doesnt really matter, whats the point having muscle if you cannot see it.

The whole natural plateau ... that would take years and years of exhaustive natural training and for what?

3

The risks of AAS are not multiplied if you have NO foundation.

You can get the physique naturally, but it will take your godforsaken life. No-one has time to **** about.

You wont recover before you havent trained before???? You can recover as long as your PCT is there.

Sorry, I am a sceptic, but this is my idea of what to do before you start AAS.



1. Make sure you understand nutrition, otherwise you have failed already.
2. Make sure you know how the hell to lift and how to train.
3. 100% Determination
4. How to PCT.
5. Added at least 12lbs+, so at least then incase you decide to de-bloat, you have a solid physique already to jump back to.

[NotSmall]

Hmmm, so you're testing him?

lol

IP check?

[firestar]

Hmmm, so you're testing him?

lol

IP check?

I'm just seeing what has to be said, theres many opinions on AAS use these days, people seem to forget they are medications and are not even as worse as smoking or drinking alcohol.

[Lemonada8]

wow... i'm just gonna let you be 'mr know it all'.... good for you, you post a question, i answer it and then u bash my answer...... and ur replies are absurd -to use ur lingo-

i still stick to my original answer which i deleted cause 'you already know the answers'
have to have atleast a couple years training before even considering goin on a cycle...

and by ur logic... aas is medications but grossly overdosed... so by that consideration its ok to overdose on 'medications' such as hydrocodone, vicodine? hmm...

[marcus300]

Building a good solid base without any form of AAS will help strengthen your ligaments, tendons, joints and connective tissue, this cant be don't over night and takes yrs of resistance training. It strengthens the whole body and will increase muscle mass, increasing muscle mass to fast will result in injury and problems within the areas of ligaments,joint,tendons and connective tissue. Your muscle will have the ability to progressively lift more weight which in turn will result in more muscle mass, doing this to fast will have direct problems in the future because your connective tissue and ligaments, joint and tendons haven't grown in accordance with the fast increase in muscle tissue if you start AAS to soon, you cant maintain muscle mass if your full of injuries.

When you first start a weight training program your body starts to grow and normally will increase over time along side your joints, tendons, ligaments and connective tissues. Starting AAS to soon can cause strains and even permanent damage if you don't build the base to withstand the increased muscle tissue and strength what AAS can produce.The more serious injuries related to not building a good solid base are ruptures,compressive injuries,soft tissues injuries, and damage to the peripheral nerves.

Also lifting weight in proper form can take along time to master, usually it takes yrs to master to fully understand form and not everybody is going to just jump into proper training correctly and knowing how your body responds best to certain exercise takes months/years to fully develop. Many first time trainers will start in there teens and growth hasn't fully developed yet and starting AAS to young without the body fully stopped growing can cause even further complications so build the base and build as much muscle mass natural up to your genetic potential, no need to create false growth when you can build it natural with your own hormones and the body's response to resistance training. You build a base with basic movements and help build the core of the body, you would never build a house without proper foundation.

Also the base goes beyond just training, it involves diet and the whole lifestyle change surrounding bodybuilding, there are certain things what you cant rush and normally its the immature and young who just want to look huge in 3 months so if your serious about having a lifestyle change and bodybuilding do it correctly and build a good solid base to work from and the maintenance of keeping the muscle tissue what you have built when you do go on a cycle with be far more easier to do with a solid base instead of a weak,slack,untrained body.................

[Pinnacle]

Let me see what marcus says before I comment....

[Pinnacle]

Also lifting weight in proper form can take along time to master, usually it takes yrs to master to fully understand form and not everybody is going to just jump into proper training correctly and knowing how your body responds best to certain exercise takes months/years to fully develop. ...

Precisely. I've yet to meet one person in my 20+ yrs of bodybuilding that was able to enter the gym after one month training and know what exercises/reps ranges worked for him. Further, it takes time, plenty of time to develop the mind/muscle connect. To say you can enter the gym and train efficiently after one month is ludicrous, and I'm being polite here.

The author claims calories don't matter? Please explain to everyone how being a caloric deficit you can accrue muscle tissue?


Pinnacle

[firestar]

Building a good solid base without any form of AAS will help strengthen your ligaments, tendons, joints and connective tissue, this cant be don't over night and takes yrs of resistance training. It strengthens the whole body and will increase muscle mass, increasing muscle mass to fast will result in injury and problems within the areas of ligaments,joint,tendons and connective tissue. Your muscle will have the ability to progressively lift more weight which in turn will result in more muscle mass, doing this to fast will have direct problems in the future because your connective tissue and ligaments, joint and tendons haven't grown in accordance with the fast increase in muscle tissue if you start AAS to soon, you cant maintain muscle mass if your full of injuries.

You are correct in saying it will make it stronger, however, using AAS makes the muscle mass bigger and stronger, making the co-operative in lifting with the tendons and ligaments difficult. You can progress from utter scratch and be completely injury free regardless of this 'myth' , its been done several several times in my own experience and others. As long as you lift with the correct form and cadence, with the CORRECT weight, I highly emphasis the weight. Many people are stupid lifters, within all my time I've never once injured myself. As you've said, years of resistance training will build tendons and ligaments, however when you immediately jump onto AAS, you'll be at risk anyway, regardless of how long you've been training! However, the amount you've been training has already educated you in how to lift in a safe fashion which will prevent injury. So, in conclusion, unless your stupid and not sensible at all, you'll risk injury or get injured - and this is regardless of how long you've been resistance training.

When you first start a weight training program your body starts to grow and normally will increase over time along side your joints, tendons, ligaments and connective tissues. Starting AAS to soon can cause strains and even permanent damage if you don't build the base to withstand the increased muscle tissue and strength what AAS can produce.The more serious injuries related to not building a good solid base are ruptures,compressive injuries,soft tissues injuries, and damage to the peripheral nerves.

Can you please elaborate on how it would cause perm damage? Could you also elaborate on the neccesity to build a base to 'withstand increased muscle tissue', because our bodies can withstand extra muscle tissue regardless, its that, or I dont understand you.
As for the other injury's you highlighted, how could these come about due to immediate AAS usage? I am very confused how length of training could effect this.

Also lifting weight in proper form can take along time to master, usually it takes yrs to master to fully understand form and not everybody is going to just jump into proper training correctly and knowing how your body responds best to certain exercise takes months/years to fully develop.

If the muscle your working is felt being worked, job done . If you are getting stronger on that lift week in week out, you are training it correctly and your body is responding. People do not react different to flyes and presses, presses are proven to stimulate much more muscle mass - for example. Thus inducing larger, better gains and power output.

Many first time trainers will start in there teens and growth hasn't fully developed yet and starting AAS to young without the body fully stopped growing can cause even further complications so build the base and build as much muscle mass natural up to your genetic potential, no need to create false growth when you can build it natural with your own hormones and the body's response to resistance training. You build a base with basic movements and help build the core of the body, you would never build a house without proper foundation.

That is a fair clause, however, we already have the foundation as human beings, thats our bodys, our skeleton and the presence of skeletal muscle already!

Also the base goes beyond just training, it involves diet and the whole lifestyle change surrounding bodybuilding, there are certain things what you cant rush and normally its the immature and young who just want to look huge in 3 months so if your serious about having a lifestyle change and bodybuilding do it correctly and build a good solid base to work from and the maintenance of keeping the muscle tissue what you have built when you do go on a cycle with be far more easier to do with a solid base instead of a weak,slack,untrained body.................

I agree with that 100%. My argument is that, if one knew the in's and outs of bodybuilding - diet, training, rest, steroids, they could grow without any problems and/or complications.

I am responding to this with all due respect.

Precisely. I've yet to meet one person in my 20+ yrs of bodybuilding that was able to enter the gym after one month training and know what exercises/reps ranges worked for him. Further, it takes time, plenty of time to develop the mind/muscle connect. To say you can enter the gym and train efficiently after one month is ludicrous, and I'm being polite here.

You've just met one. I mastered every lift with 100% precision in under a month, thats mainly because I was highly supervised under many many people. I spent just days and sessions by themselves just learning pure form. Your fair about the exercise and rep range, it does take a while, for me however it worked brilliantly, and for many others too. They are not *****s lifts by any account, just proven methods that pass of mass and power - but I am not going into detail on that.

Yep, does take a while to get the mind muscle connection. Sorry, but its not ludicrous, I didnt do this by myself entirely either.

The author claims calories don't matter? Please explain to everyone how being a caloric deficit you can accrue muscle tissue?

AAS forces proteins onto you, regardless of whether in deficit or surplus. As long as they correct amount of protein is there, your sorted. However, when you use AAS you dont go into deficit.. lol.

[marcus300]

I am responding to this with all due respect.

I am sorry but alot of your understanding is way off and if you dont think a base is required get on with your goals and i will see you in the injury section soon, let me guess.........you have started AAS use without a soild base?

[firestar]

I am sorry but alot of your understanding is way off and if you dont think a base is required get on with your goals and i will see you in the injury section soon, let me guess.........you have started AAS use without a soild base?

You seem to be forgetting the main idea here, this is a debate, and an ENTIRELY hypothetical one.

No, I built a dam strong base before using AAS, and my lifts were not sub-par either.

I am also sorry if I caused you any offence, but everything I've said is from my research, experience and experience of others that I have monitored.

Is that picture Dorian Yates?

[marcus300]

Ive lost my guard dog.............anyone seen him?? here Pinn.....here Pinn.....Pinn!! lol

[Lemonada8]

100% precision within a month? wow thast a ballsy statement... and i still highly doubt it... you have to have proper form even w/ high weight... and thats the most difficult part... but hey, you know everything...

[marcus300]

You seem to be forgetting the main idea here, this is a debate, and an ENTIRELY hypothetical one.

No, I built a dam strong base before using AAS, and my lifts were not sub-par either.

I am also sorry if I caused you any offence, but everything I've said is from my research, experience and experience of others that I have monitored.

Why did you build a base then? if you dont fully agree with it? should we ask the rest of the members if a base is required?

Can everyone chime in here and get some more views!!

Base or not base...that is the question

[DSM4Life]

If your ligaments, tendons, joints and connective tissue are not as strong as they should be (not having good foundation) and you weight 160lbs what do you think is going to happen when you cycle, gain a significant amount of muscle mass and begin to strain them already weaker ligaments, tendons, joints and connective tissue even further ?

[firestar]

100% precision within a month? wow thast a ballsy statement... and i still highly doubt it... you have to have proper form even w/ high weight... and thats the most difficult part... but hey, you know everything...

Yeh. I'm being serious.

[Lemonada8]

what lifts are you doin? i'm guessing no exposive lifts because its not really used for body building... lifts like hang clean, power clean... those kind of lifts...

[Pinnacle]

"AAS forces proteins onto you, regardless of whether in deficit or surplus. As long as they correct amount of protein is there, your sorted. However, when you use AAS you dont go into deficit.. lol."

So you are saying if an individual(who weighs 200 pounds) eats 2 grams per pounds of body mass, which would equate to 400 grams = 1600 calories, they'll grow? Carbohydrates aren't needed, nor healthy fats?

[firestar]

what lifts are you doin? i'm guessing no exposive lifts because its not really used for body building... lifts like hang clean, power clean... those kind of lifts...

Im not doing any olmypic lifting.

[goose]

We have a member here,I have his PM still saved.This can happen to all levels but generally happens to guys like you or have your ideology.He cycled with a heavy cycle and he suffered from a major injury, basically he got to strong for his tendons.Let me say this,this is one of the most Dangerous Strategies to pursue......

[marcus300]

You've just met one. I mastered every lift with 100% precision in under a month, thats mainly because I was highly supervised under many many people. I spent just days and sessions by themselves just learning pure form.

This is utter rubbish in my opinion under a month !! how old are you by the way?

[firestar]

"AAS forces proteins onto you, regardless of whether in deficit or surplus. As long as they correct amount of protein is there, your sorted. However, when you use AAS you dont go into deficit.. lol."

So you are saying if an individual(who weighs 200 pounds) eats 2 grams per pounds of body mass, which would equate to 400 grams = 1600 calories, they'll grow? Carbohydrates aren't needed, nor healthy fats?

In practice carbs and fats are needed, but if your 200 calories in deficit, it wont matter all so much.

You seem to be missing my point, I didnt mean an extreme deficit like you pointed out.

This is utter rubbish in my opinion under a month !! how old are you by the way?

Age is irrelevant.

P.S - I must be leaving soon to go back to studying, so any more questions within the next 5 minutes I'll help to answer them.

[Lemonada8]

Im not doing any olmypic lifting.

olympic lifting?

so i am guessing you were never a athlete that lifted huh?

[Lemonada8]

In practice carbs and fats are needed, but if your 200 calories in deficit, it wont matter all so much.

You seem to be missing my point, I didnt mean an extreme deficit like you pointed out.

200 calorie deficit isnt much of anything... thats like half a burger...

[PT]

of course a base is required, everyone knows that. this kid cant be more then 17

[firestar]

200 calorie deficit isnt much of anything... thats like half a burger...

Thats what I was getting at, it wont really hinder your gains all that much.

olympic lifting?

so i am guessing you were never a athlete that lifted huh?

Olympic lifting are snatches, cleans, jerks. Why the **** would I want to do that, I'm a bodybuilder/Powerlifter(at times )

[DSM4Life]

The more i read your post fire the more i see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYzC_...eature=related

Goodluck

[firestar]

The more i read your post fire the more i see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYzC_...eature=related

Goodluck

I dont understand that.

[DSM4Life]

I dont understand that.

You wouldn't.

[Lemonada8]

Thats what I was getting at, it wont really hinder your gains all that much.



Olympic lifting are snatches, cleans, jerks. Why the **** would I want to do that, I'm a bodybuilder/Powerlifter(at times )

why the need to have curse words in ur posts, even if they are starred out...

u say powerlifter? isnt power clean a power lifting lift?

[marcus300]

In practice carbs and fats are needed, but if your 200 calories in deficit, it wont matter all so much.

You seem to be missing my point, I didnt mean an extreme deficit like you pointed out.



Age is irrelevant.

P.S - I must be leaving soon to go back to studying, so any more questions within the next 5 minutes I'll help to answer them.

Your way off with your nutrition and i feel your age would help because you seen to be thinking very immaturely and your age would amount to why.

Its simple i dont agree and i do feel a base is required in many areas of bodybuilding before starting AAS use.

[Pinnacle]

In practice carbs and fats are needed, but if your 200 calories in deficit, it wont matter all so much.

You seem to be missing my point, I didnt mean an extreme deficit like you pointed out.



.

You said all that's needed is protein to grow( calories don't matter). That's utter nonsense and you know it too.
When entering a battle such as this, always make sure you have enough ammo. I will stay with you all day and tear wholes in your nutritional ideologies.
Not only is it common knowledge you need a surplus of calories to accrue muscle tissue, it's FACT.

[PT]

i think he came here strictly to start an argument with you marcus which is why he called you out. he did this on past posts as well towards others.

[Lemonada8]

hey pinn can u check out this thread for me please...

Plan for cycle

and i still believe, not just think... believe, that you NEED a base before starting steroids ... and i'm out...

[firestar]

You said all that's needed is protein to grow( calories don't matter). That's utter nonsense and you know it too.
When entering a battle such as this, always make sure you have enough ammo. I will stay with you all day and tear wholes in your nutritional ideologies.
Not only is it common knowledge you need a surplus of calories to accrue muscle tissue, it's FACT.

I'm going to stop this, you dont know what the **** Im getting at.

I dont have time to sit here all day, I wish I could, do you have MSN, you can try to take wholes in my 'ideologies'.

I would love it if you added me.

Goodday, and I wasnt getting at anyone, I asked marcus, and no-one else.

[Pinnacle]

I'm going to stop this, you dont know what the **** Im getting at.

I dont have time to sit here all day, I wish I could, do you have MSN, you can try to take wholes in my 'ideologies'.

I would love it if you added me.

Yes I do know what you are getting at. Basically you are saying you have no knowledge of nutrition, nor human biology, lets not forget applied physiology.

Why are you running away for the debate? You clearly stated "Protein is all you need to grow". I/we all want to see your response to this question in detail.

[Phate]

edit

[Lemonada8]

^^ actually he said he had to study...