Dbol/sus/deca - 1st Cycle Advice Needed?

**Swimmer22** · 06-09-2008, 07:59 AM

28 years
180cm
150lbs
7% body fat
Slim/Athletic build
Regular exercise for 4 years.

Hi I am 5 days into my first cycle consisting of 2 x 250 Sust, 1 x 100 Deca and 2 x Dbol tabs daily as a kickstart. I have taken 1 sust and deca together all in one shot and another single shot of sust once a week. My diet is good, consists of good lean protein, and complex carbs in the day, but none after 6pm. Workout schedule is also good have a personal trainer and target individual body parts, as well as 30 mins high intensity cardio each day. At present my muscles are fatigued and pumped after each workout, but find it difficult to add more weight to my workout, without reducing reps. At present I do 3 sets of 12.

Just a few questions:

a)Should I exclude the deca? Despite the small does, can it still cause unwanted side effects?

b)Should I change the frequency over the course of the week, instead of injecting all on one day?

c)My goal is to put on more mass on my upper body and legs, but still remain lean, thus do I need to increase carb intake further?

d)By focusing on daily cardio, am I hindering potential muscle growth?

e)Is it wise to take fat burner tabs, such as Lipo 6, during the course of the cycle?

Any further advice would be much appreciated, many thanks.

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 08:45 AM

your cycle is good ..but i would bump that dosage of DBOLs to 30 mg/d
a. keep the deca ..make sure u have a strong PCT
b. Sustanon should be shot every 3.5 days and deca can be shoot once a week
c. yes..make sure ur carbs are coming from veggies, fruits and whole grains
d. your body only begins to use proteins as energy after 45 minutes of consistant heart rate.. that answer ur question?
e. you def can, personally i wouldnt tho, but u can!

goodluck

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 08:48 AM

100 mg of deca shuts ur natty test levels down 100% so ..make sure u have a PCt something like this
1-4 Nolvadex 40mg/d
1-4 Clomid 100mg/d

**G4R** · 06-09-2008, 09:29 AM

1st cycle? Should have went with a Test only cycle to be on the safe side.

**Swimmer22** · 06-09-2008, 11:22 AM

Thanks Bulldog,

a) Should I start the PCT now or later?
b) When am i likely to notice strength gains?
c) Will cardio minimise water retention/bloating?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 04:42 PM

1. no PCT is Posr Cycle Therapy lmao start that one week after ur last shoot
2. 4 to 5th week with test and deca and right away with dbols
3. do alot of cardio to aviod bloat ..like 30-40 minutes 4-5 days a week

**inky-e** · 06-09-2008, 04:57 PM

Bro I think 100mg of deca is worthless, plus you're all over the place, build upper body mass while remaining lean, taking fat burners too. And at 5'9" and 150lbs, you shouldn't be on steroids in the first place. Sorry just my opinion.

**Swimmer22** · 06-09-2008, 06:29 PM

Am actually im 5'11, and 28 years. I do want to build more muscle mass, but not looking for huge gains, like most people. I am happy with my frame, but could benifit with a bigger upper half and legs,whilst maintaining my abs....if you think thats unrealistic, please elaborate?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 06:53 PM

swwimmer your fine do not worry bout what he just said ... just make sure you the cycle right and research .. post your diet, i would like to see it and make sure you are eating right while on a cycle b/c diet is where your gains will come from

**ottomaddox** · 06-09-2008, 06:56 PM

5'11" @ 150lbs is even worse, Sounds like you have a pretty weak foundation upon which to build on. Be careful you don't injur yourself with the new found strength.

Originally Posted by Swimmer22

Am actually im 5'11, and 28 years. I do want to build more muscle mass, but not looking for huge gains, like most people. I am happy with my frame, but could benifit with a bigger upper half and legs,whilst maintaining my abs....if you think thats unrealistic, please elaborate?

**NATE0406** · 06-09-2008, 06:57 PM

you need to look into your diet. and like said above 100mgs of deca a week is pointless. need to do a lot more research bro. and thats a pretty heavy first cycle.

**ottomaddox** · 06-09-2008, 06:58 PM

5'11" at 150 lbs, I think diet is the problem. Without endless amounts of food, all the steroids in the world wont help fix that diet and then you'll be able to gain weight. Steroids are not the answer. Wow.

Originally Posted by Bulldog1115

swwimmer your fine do not worry bout what he just said ... just make sure you the cycle right and research .. post your diet, i would like to see it and make sure you are eating right while on a cycle b/c diet is where your gains will come from

**Big** · 06-09-2008, 07:08 PM

If you're over 5'10" and under 170lbs read this...

**NATE0406** · 06-09-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Big

If you're over 5'10" and under 170lbs read this...

lol...

**Big** · 06-09-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bulldog1115

your cycle is good ..but i would bump that dosage of DBOLs to 30 mg/d
a. keep the deca ..make sure u have a strong PCT
b. Sustanon should be shot every 3.5 days and deca can be shoot once a week
c. yes..make sure ur carbs are coming from veggies, fruits and whole grains
d. your body only begins to use proteins as energy after 45 minutes of consistant heart rate.. that answer ur question?
e. you def can, personally i wouldnt tho, but u can!

goodluck

5'11", 150lbs, first cycle, and you give him the go on this cycle? You are giving bad advice time and time again, please don't let this continue.

**Coop77** · 06-09-2008, 07:17 PM

Swimmer there's a lot to learn about how to use steroids properly. I'd advise you to read all you can for a while and reevaluate things. It's your body so you can do what you want though.
btw, 100 mg of deca will do nothing but waste your deca.

**Swimmer22** · 06-09-2008, 07:19 PM

Heres today’s diet:

Morning
- Oats with skim milk, flax seed, high fibre, ground flax, 20grams protein powder
- Wholemeal toast with peanut butter/little jam.
- Green tea.

Mid Morn
– Oats, as before.

Lunch
– Lightly BBQ grilled chicken fillet, with spinach leaves, low fat cottage cheese, small portion whole wheat penne pasta.

Prior gym
– 5 egg whites.

Post gym
– Protein shake (Isopure)

Post gym meal
– BBQ chicken fillet, spinach leaves, small portion whole wheat pasta.

Dinner
– Steamed salmon fillet, with light Dijon mustard and spinach leaves.

Handful of unsalted almonds and cashews.

Prior bed:
- Casein protein shake with 1 teaspoon flaxseed oil and skim milk.

Water: 3.5 litres.

Any suggestions? Do I need to focus on increase my carbs/protein intake further, if so, is it best to increase my meal portions or include more meals more frequently?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 07:20 PM

yah i woodnt have suggested that but he stated that he is 5 days into his cycle?...what am i suppose 2 do shot up to stop? ya know what i mean?

**Big** · 06-09-2008, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bulldog1115

yah i woodnt have suggested that but he stated that he is 5 days into his cycle?...what am i suppose 2 do shot up to stop? ya know what i mean?

Yeah, he probably wouldn't listen, but my honest opinion is that he should stop. I see where you are coming from though.

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 07:25 PM

big not to hijack but could u assist me in my thread it says "cycle for Strength and speed" ...but as far as swimmer, idk what 2 do for you man!

**Swimmer22** · 06-09-2008, 07:33 PM

I hear ya guys, so you think I should stop completley or make reductions in the cycle. What are the reasons for me to stop the cycle?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-09-2008, 07:37 PM

to perfect your diet and get natural gains first

**Coop77** · 06-09-2008, 08:08 PM

If you're only 150 lbs then your diet & training are not working for you naturally. Until you get that figured out you have no chance of keeping any gains that a steroid cycle will give you. Also you should probably know what PCT is before you jump into steroids .

**Big** · 06-09-2008, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Coop77

If you're only 150 lbs then your diet & training are not working for you naturally. Until you get that figured out you have no chance of keeping any gains that a steroid cycle will give you. Also you should probably know what PCT is before you jump into steroids.

yep^. at best you will puff up a bit, then lose it at the same rate (or faster) than you gained. you are no where near your natural potential.

**Swimmer22** · 06-10-2008, 02:03 AM

Coop, I do understand what PCT is, ive done my research and spoken with many of my friends who have done AAS before, and advised me to try it in the first place. The reason I asked the PCT question was, because I read a lot of posts on this board from members who say to begin PCT during the cycle, I just wanted an opinion on this.

Also would appreciate a critique on my diet, so I can perfect it further.

**inky-e** · 06-10-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bulldog1115

to perfect your diet and get natural gains first

you dissed me in post #9 only to contradict yourself now. I strongly urge you to think real good before you post advice, I know you're probably gung ho on this whole thing and thats great, but not everybody should be doing cycles, whether the cycles they propose are worthless or the person proposing isn't qualified to cycle. I haven't been here all that long but I've been around long enough to know that a 5'11" 150 lb dude should NOT be cycling.

**Swimmer22** · 06-10-2008, 03:22 PM

Ok i hear all your advice and appreciate it. May I ask why I should not be cycling, is it mainly because im only 150lbs? I feel ive reached a plateau and find it tough to put more weight on, thus my main reason for doing a cycle. Am I unlikely to put anymore weight on my cycle...Advice appreciated.

**Big** · 06-10-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Swimmer22

Ok i hear all your advice and appreciate it. May I ask why I should not be cycling, is it mainly because im only 150lbs? I feel ive reached a plateau and find it tough to put more weight on, thus my main reason for doing a cycle. Am I unlikely to put anymore weight on my cycle...Advice appreciated.

Check this thread for some reasons why you shouldn't cycle yet:
Dbol/sus/deca - 1st Cycle Advice Needed?

**Swimmer22** · 06-10-2008, 03:36 PM

Thanks BIG, but that thread is the same as this one.....was you referring to another link?

**legobricks** · 06-10-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Swimmer22

Thanks BIG, but that thread is the same as this one.....was you referring to another link?

No he did not make a mistake.

He re-posted it becuase you think you cannot gain weight and turn to AAS for the answer. I wish AAS was magic, but its not. The magic lies in your diet. You clearly are not eating enough for your body to grow so you must intake more food. Go to the diet section and learn how to properly bulk. If you arent growing, eat more. Its simple. You ARE NOT at a plateau, your diet needs improvement.

**Big** · 06-10-2008, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

No he did not make a mistake.

He re-posted it becuase you think you cannot gain weight and turn to AAS for the answer. I wish AAS was magic, but its not. The magic lies in your diet. You clearly are not eating enough for your body to grow so you must intake more food. Go to the diet section and learn how to properly bulk. If you arent growing, eat more. Its simple. You ARE NOT at a plateau, your diet needs improvement.

You know me well my friend.

**Swimmer22** · 06-10-2008, 04:07 PM

I hear ya, ive posted my diet earlier, but no one commented on it, im seekin advice and would appreciate if someone would be able to advise me on my diet further as to what more I can do to make it work for me...so here is my diet for today. Would appreciate if you guys could let me know what im missing.

9h June 2008

Morning
- Oats with skim milk, flax seed, high fibre, ground flax, 30grams protein powder.
- Banana

Mid Morn
– Oats, as before.
– Isopure

Lunch
- Lightly BBQ grilled chicken fillet, with spinach leaves, low fat cottage cheese, and large portion brown rice. Camembert.

Light Lunch
- Lightly BBQ small grilled chicken fillet, with spinach leaves, small portion low fat cottage cheese, large portion brown rice, chunk camembert.

Prior gym
- 5 egg whites.
- Wholemeal toast with peanut butter/little jam.

Post gym
– Protein shake (Isopure)
– Half banana

Post gym meal (Dinner)
– Handful of unsalted almonds and cashews.
– Steamed large salmon fillet, rubbed with pepper/herbs, with light Dijon mustard, spinach leaves, sweet corn.

Prior bed:
- Casein protein shake with 1 teaspoon flaxseed oil and skim milk.
- Tuna with Worcester sauce.

**Big** · 06-10-2008, 04:11 PM

Have you read the diets at the top of the diet section? There are bulking diets and diets for hard gainers already listed there.

**Swimmer22** · 06-10-2008, 04:23 PM

Yea i seen them and hope to use them, but what do you think of my diet so far?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-10-2008, 07:21 PM

need more complex carbs

**Coop77** · 06-10-2008, 10:27 PM

Figure out exactly how many calories, grams protein, grams carbs, etc you're eating in each meal in a typical day (yes this is a pain, but do it). You may not be eating as much as you think you are. You can find a lot of help in the diet forum and in the stickies there.

**Swimmer22** · 06-11-2008, 06:03 AM

BIG, what other complex carbs would you suggest....waxy maize starch after a workout prehaps?

**Bulldog1115** · 06-11-2008, 06:35 AM

post workout ur going to need a minimum of 75g of good carbs...now every1 says fast digestive carbs but me personally, i like fruit b/c of the natural sugar content. just my personal opinion. In my PWo Shake i use Oranges, Blueberries and a Frozen Banana and yogurt, so acually im way over 75g carbs, thats more like almost 100G

**Doc_Anomynmous** · 06-27-2008, 04:43 AM

Of course, he has not reached a plateau of any sort and can gain more weight without the aid of AAS but some people are simply looking for faster results. Many people get to a point where they feel like they need to see early result in order to get excited about weight gain, excersize, diet, etc.
What I don't understand is, why do more experienced users think they are on some kind of moral high-ground. The fact is, there's no good reason to ever take AAS'. I'm a primary care physician so, I don't claim to be an authority on this position as it's not exactly my feild but, from all my years of studying the human body, I have'nt found a single shread of evidence to suggest that one body type is any more prepared than another for the advantages or side-effects of AAS.

**Big** · 06-27-2008, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Doc_Anomynmous

Of course, he has not reached a plateau of any sort and can gain more weight without the aid of AAS but some people are simply looking for faster results. Many people get to a point where they feel like they need to see early result in order to get excited about weight gain, excersize, diet, etc.
What I don't understand is, why do more experienced users think they are on some kind of moral high-ground. The fact is, there's no good reason to ever take AAS'. I'm a primary care physician so, I don't claim to be an authority on this position as it's not exactly my feild but, from all my years of studying the human body, I have'nt found a single shread of evidence to suggest that one body type is any more prepared than another for the advantages or side-effects of AAS.

Interesting first post.
In any event, my stance has nothing to do with a "moral high-ground". I have done this for many years, and have known personally people who cycled for over 20 years now. The sad fact is that most people who are unable to gain weight due to insufficient diet then cycle anyway, gain a bit, then lose the weight they have gained at an equal or faster rate than it came once the cycle is over. Entering into pct there are drastic fluctuations in hormone levels, at this time people are on a sort of natural high because of their newfound gains, then the gains just melt away due to a poor diet, and depression often sets in. Sure there are exceptions to this, but I assure you they are the minority. My concerns for someone cycling when they have no clue how to diet properly come from a genuine concern for the long-term satisfaction of the person in question, not from some point of personal gain.