estrogen/progesterone and gyno/side effects INFO FOR NEW GUYS

[one8nine]

i would just like to make it clear to new people, as I'm reading a lot of confused posts out there

We need to practive prevention. Any of these can prevent gyno but if you dont do things the smart way and wait until you get gyno to fight it the only thing you can do is letro.
All you need to know about GYNO.

GYNO IS NOT THE ONLY CONCERN IN SIDE EFFECTS

other side effects include lethargy, suppressed gains, suppressed sex drive, acne, bloating and mood swings

just because you are not "gyno sensitive" doesn't mean you are not "lethargy, suppressed gains, suppressed sex drive, acne, bloating and mood swing" sensitive

also, each of these side effects can be caused be EITHER elevated estrogen (high rate of aromatization from testosterone , dbol , ec...) OR overstimulated progesterone receptors (stimulated by drol, tren , nando/deca etc...) or a combination of both

just because you control your estrogen DOES NOT MEAN you are fully protected from the side effects from progesterone. and vice versa

*(typical dosages [ on cycle, not pct. my pct is at the bottom of this post ] )
these drugs cover estrogen:
Arimidex aka Anastrozole (.25mg ed)
Aromasin aka Exemestane (25mg ed)
Proviron aka Mesterolone (50mg ed)

these drugs cover progesterone/Prolactin:
Dostinex/Cabaser aka Cabergoline (.25mg ed)
Parlodel aka Bromocriptine

this drug covers BOTH:
Femara aka Letrozole (.25mg ed)

Nolvadex is terrible to take on cycle. If taken with tren\deca or drol it will INCREASE sides.
Nolvadex is also TOO anti-catabolic. the way muscle grows is by tearing down and rebuilding bigger. Nolvadex greatly decreases that, actually endurance athletes take it to decrease muscle fatigue.

oh and PS
-Arimidex and Nolvadex don't mix
-clomid should only be used at 25mg a day, off cycle, never on
-Nolvadex is bad when your progesterone is stimulated
-letro causes an estrogen rebound effect when usage is stopped in people, most common way to end is to taper off stacked with Nolvadex. this can be tricky if you are using letro to deal with progesterone

AIs stop test from converting to estrogen.
SERMS block existing estrogen- never use on cycle
Cabergoline reduces progesterone/Prolactin

AIs-
-Arimidex is best on cycle to prevent estrogen. Arimidex is avoided in pct because Nolvadex reduces the effectiveness of Arimidex. its okay to mix but Arimidex must be increased to make up for the loss.
-letro is very strong, it prevents estrogen conversion, also reduces progesterone/Prolactin. also can reverse gyno. its best on cycle cause when you stop there can be a hard estrogen rebound. the best way to handle this is stopping letro the day before pct, so all the pct drugs handle the rebound.
-Aromasin is a good AI, usually used in pct cause its okay with nolva
-proviron is a DHT , but also used as an AI- my favorite. its not suppressive so its okay in pct, it also binds to SHBG making the other drugs you take it with more effective.

SERM
-nolva blocks existing estrogen from attaching to breast tissue, and helps some restoring test
-clomid is best use is restoring natural test (at 25mg ed), and helps some to block estrogen


my pct
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-cycle-therapy/354573-one8nines-opinion-pct-links-side-effect-control-too.html#post4111013

hcg crash course
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/355725-crash-course-hcg.html#post4127466

all about caber
The How To Use Caber Thread

bromo FAQ
Bromo FAQ ?copy and paste

dosing mg/mL? iu/ml?
http://forums.steroid.com/educational-threads/357078-dosing-your-drugs.html#post4150818

[Bulldog1115]

sorry what i meant to say in that tren ace post before was, that estrogen speeds proges gyno! ..isnt this correct?

[one8nine]

sorry what i meant to say in that tren ace post before was, that estrogen speeds proges gyno! ..isnt this correct?

if you are getting estrogen gyno plus progest gyno at the same time then sure that makes sense
but even with zero estrogen progesterone still can cause sides

[Bulldog1115]

but i was talking about gyno! ... see im pretty sure i read that, proges. is located in milk ducts in our nipples and with a high estrogen count in your body, it can speed up the process of getting proges gyno!

[one8nine]

but i was talking about gyno! ... see im pretty sure i read that, proges. is located in milk ducts in our nipples and with a high estrogen count in your body, it can speed up the process of getting proges gyno!

okay but that doesnt mean that just because someone has low/no estrogen that progesterone related gyno is impossible or even unlikely

[one8nine]

but i was talking about gyno! ... see im pretty sure i read that, proges. is located in milk ducts in our nipples and with a high estrogen count in your body, it can speed up the process of getting proges gyno!

gyno IS a side effect

[passthetest]

ha well nice post I guess now I know why I'm an emotional bitch

[Flex-Appeal]

why cant i use arimidex at .25 mg ed as well as nolva 25mg ed.
you say they cancel each other out...
please explain more 189

[Flex-Appeal]

im speaking of during cycle or PCT btw

[Flex-Appeal]

what do you suggest if i told you all i have access to is AR-R products???

[MercyDog]

why cant i use arimidex at .25 mg ed as well as nolva 25mg ed.
you say they cancel each other out...
please explain more 189

Estrogen isn't all that bad however as long as it don't get out of control. I don't use arimidex or nolva on cycle unless its an emergency. I'm not very prone but when I get the first signs I start the nolva. Arimidex doesn't take 100% of the estrogen conversion out and on very large AAS doses/conversions you better get on the nolva and not take chances.

[Flex-Appeal]

hmmm go look at this thread in PCT forum and you can see why not to use them together.

[MercyDog]

I may start keeping both handy. Since I've never tried arimidex on a cycle I'm not sure how or if it hinders gains. Prob. something I should try out. I've just always used Nolva when needed on a cycle.

[one8nine]

nolvadex is used by endurance athletes
if you use nolvadex on cycle it will be TOO anti-catabolic. to rebuild muscle we must first TEAR IT DOWN. nolvadex will greatly inhibit that, which will in turn inhibit gains.

as to nolva/arimidex not mixing:

Just something I found.. May or may not be relevant..

"ARIMIDEX should not be taken with tamoxifen or estrogen-containing therapies"

http://www.arimidex-us.com/index.aspx


"At a median follow-up of 33 months, the combination of ARIMIDEX and tamoxifen did not demonstrate any efficacy benefit when compared with tamoxifen in all patients as well as in the hormone receptor-positive subpopulation. This treatment arm was discontinued from the trial. Based on clinical and pharmacokinetic results from the ATAC trial, tamoxifen should not be administrated with anastrozole."

It further states that,

"Co-administration of anastrozole and tamoxifen resulted in a reduction of anastrozole plasma levels by 27% compared with those achieved with anastozole alone. Estrogen containing therapies should not be used with ARIMIDEX as they may diminish pharmacologic action."

http://www1.astrazeneca-us.com/pi/arimidex.pdf


In my opinion Aromasin should be used instead of Arimidex (L-dex), the only major problems being it's super expensive price and unavailability to the non-prescribed users..

[MercyDog]

Here's a quote from.......http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catarimidex.htm

"Things one needs to note while using arimidex is that the benefits of estrogen become non-existent as well. First of all that means gains can be drastically reduced. They will be leaner and more qualitative, but they will nonetheless be seriously reduced. A second problem is that estrogen seems to have a positive effect on cholesterol levels. Since estrogen is reduced, the use of arimidex may have a profound impact on HDL to LDL ratio's in your cholesterol profile. In this aspect the use of Nolvadex is more user-friendly, because despite its anti-estrogenic effects in most tissues, it seems to exert positive estrogenic effects in the liver and promote a better cholesterol profile."



BUT, to tell you the truth I get soooo tired of reading about this stuff because every thing you read is different and no-one does studies related to bodybuilding. So I just can't say whats right or wrong. I know from experiences when my nipples itch 80mg. of nolva everyday fixes it.

[one8nine]

YOU USE 80MG A DAY OF NOLVA???? wwwwwttttfffff

[G4R]

Oh come on one8nine, you mean to tell me you are tired of explaining every little thing to people because they don't take the time to research it for themselves? You big baby!

[one8nine]

Oh come on one8nine, you mean to tell me you are tired of explaining every little thing to people because they don't take the time to research it for themselves? You big baby!

NOT TIRED! just a time saver
plus id like my own thread for people to discuss it on maybe someone can chime in and teach me some extra stuff

[OH REALLY]

Oh Really

[one8nine]

yes really, oh really

[OH REALLY]

if you are getting estrogen gyno plus progest gyno at the same time then sure that makes sense
but even with zero estrogen progesterone still can cause sides

Just wanted to add one thing with my experience i have noticed that

I8oneU8one2 Does not mix well with WD40 Do you agree with this one8nine

[Garbanzo Dude]

hadn't seen this yet.....good stuff!!!!

[one8nine]

Just wanted to add one thing with my experience i have noticed that

I8oneU8one2 Does not mix well with WD40 Do you agree with this one8nine

i dont get it im a simple man i think its joke though

[WARMachine]

lol yeah bro its a joke, a poor one at that...

I ate one, you ate one too...

Btw, good thread (as always) im adding it the list of things i post when newbies start threads with "I use 100mg of clomid and 50mg of nolva for 10days for my PCT, i also used 50mgs of nlova on cycle too"

[one8nine]

ha ha
i got the 81 joke but not wd40

[one8nine]

im having a contest with barbie who views her half naked progress pics more or my education threads more. shes overall winning. sad.

[WARMachine]

what did you expect? Honestly, im sorry to tell ya brother, her pics are FAR more interesting than your threads...




sorry bro,

[richtries]

good post . . . things are alot clearer now.

to avoid buying two ai's . . . is aromasin as effective as adex on cycle?

[alextg]

one8nine , that was a very good and helpfull post.Especially for me , cause in my last cycle i had some acne and gyno probs.So the best thing to take during a cycle , would be eg 50mg Proviron ED and 2,5mg Parlodel ? So you can cover both estrogen & progesterone/Prolactin ... (Not sure about the Parlodel dose)
Thanks alot

[one8nine]

good post . . . things are alot clearer now.

to avoid buying two ai's . . . is aromasin as effective as adex on cycle?

yes just get whichever is cheaper- probably adex

[one8nine]

one8nine , that was a very good and helpfull post.Especially for me , cause in my last cycle i had some acne and gyno probs.So the best thing to take during a cycle , would be eg 50mg Proviron ED and 2,5mg Parlodel ? So you can cover both estrogen & progesterone/Prolactin ... (Not sure about the Parlodel dose)
Thanks alot

this will not 100% garentee to cover all sides but will for sure minimize them the best possible
i dont know about pardlodel very much i prefer caber
but proviron/parlodel would cover estro and prolactin
or letro alone is good too

[hockeyguy]

189 I've been following a few of your links. Ran 1st cycle 500mg test E per week with no real sides while on but 2 weeks into PCT I've had some crazy mood swings. Seems to be getting better. I know my PCT combo isn't the best but it was all I could get at the time (Nolva & A-Dex both liquid). My guess is its from overstimulated progesterone?

[one8nine]

189 I've been following a few of your links. Ran 1st cycle 500mg test E per week with no real sides while on but 2 weeks into PCT I've had some crazy mood swings. Seems to be getting better. I know my PCT combo isn't the best but it was all I could get at the time (Nolva & A-Dex both liquid). My guess is its from overstimulated progesterone?

if its test e only i doubt it but it could be.
remember estro/progest control help but will not 100% cover every single side effect.
its side effect control, not side effect stopage.
i like caber in pct though
test e with a pct of nolva adex is okay. you probably had very high test going into pct if you didnt control it on cycle

[hockeyguy]

Cool. Thanks bud. I'll have to look more into caber for my next cycle. Also keep up the great links.

[one8nine]

Cool. Thanks bud. I'll have to look more into caber for my next cycle. Also keep up the great links.

pct will be much easier if you control estradoils on cycle so you dont suddenly have 3 months of buildup to deal with at once

[alextg]

this will not 100% garentee to cover all sides but will for sure minimize them the best possible
i dont know about pardlodel very much i prefer caber
but proviron /parlodel would cover estro and prolactin
or letro alone is good too

I asked about proviron/parlodel cause here you get them without prescription and they are cheap like buying a chocklate :P
Parlodel comes in 2,5mg , 10mg and 20mg pills ... what would be a good ED dosage while on cycle ?
Thx again

[one8nine]

i dunno about prlodel
read this faq on it
Bromo FAQ ?copy and paste

[one8nine]

i thinki remember it being 2.5mg ed-5mg ed but im not 100% for sure

[BG]

im having a contest with barbie who views her half naked progress pics more or my education threads more. shes overall winning. sad.

LOL, Titts over education of course.

[ironaddict69]

I've never heard of estrogen reducing gains...

Me and all my friends gain a lot more strength and size total when we don't use an AI, isn't it the same with all of you?