Is it too late for my friend to finally run some PCT over 5 weeks after his cycle?

**mick86** · 09-06-2008, 01:00 PM

I have a friend who ignored my advice not to run a test p/tren a/deca /d-bol cycle for his first. Not only did he combine two 19-nors he ran out of money so did not use any PCT ! I believe it was a 5 week cycle and its now been at least 5 weeks since he stopped his cycle and surprise surprise he is feeling rather flat. Now hes willing to listen to my advice, whats his best move in regards to PCT at this point? I assume that PCT is sill an option.

**redz** · 09-06-2008, 01:02 PM

I would suggest a very strong pct involving the following:

Aromasin
Clomid
Nolva
HCG

Hopefully he can get his hands on that stuff fast.

**redz** · 09-06-2008, 01:03 PM

Caber wouldnt hurt either if it is available.

**jg42058p** · 09-06-2008, 01:07 PM

depends on how old he is... the younger he is the quicker his test production will come back

but PCT certainly wouldn't hurt... especially with taking all those substances... thats a pretty intense cycle and sounds like it wouldn't be very affective doing it for only 5 weeks

he could atleast try taking ZMA and tribulus to get his test production up again
those are pretty cheap compounds and might help a little bit...

i would imagine he has probably already developed some gyno if he never took any anti-e's or AI's
that must suck

**redz** · 09-06-2008, 01:09 PM

depends on how old he is... the younger he is the quicker his test production will come back

but PCT certainly wouldn't hurt... especially with taking all those substances... thats a pretty intense cycle and sounds like it wouldn't be very affective doing it for only 5 weeks

he could atleast try taking ZMA and tribulus to get his test production up again
those are pretty cheap compounds and might help a little bit

Very poor advice....PCT is crutial even at this stage recovery is not only based on age. Deca and Tren are very very supressive even if only run for 5 weeks.

**mick86** · 09-06-2008, 01:17 PM

He happens to be 21.

Aromasin
Clomid
Nolva

Are all obtainable but the Aromasin is mine and hard for me to get. I'm hoping to hold onto it. Plus even giving it to him would be against the law so I am not advertising that I would do that.

Arimidex is easy for him to get but not great with Nolva. Could he run Arimidex/Clomid ? Arimidex/Nolva is still better than just Arimidex or Nolva alone.

No one I or he knows can get HCG at the moment.

Caber is not obtainable in the time frame needed.

**jg42058p** · 09-06-2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by redz

Very poor advice....PCT is crutial even at this stage recovery is not only based on age. Deca and Tren are very very supressive even if only run for 5 weeks.

I guess you misinterpreted what I said.
What I meant was - "effective" in terms of the gains he would get
You'd need to run that cycle longer to get serious gains...

I do agree that deca and tren would shut him down severely
and in the long run, using that much juice for only 5 weeks with no PCT he probably would be right back where he started at to begin with

Yes PCT is definitely needed. I guess I didn't emphasize it enough.

**jg42058p** · 09-06-2008, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by mick86

He happens to be 21.

Aromasin
Clomid
Nolva

Are all obtainable but the Aromasin is mine and hard for me to get. I'm hoping to hold onto it. Plus even giving it to him would be against the law so I am not advertising that I would do that.

Arimidex is easy for him to get but not great with Nolva. Could he run Arimidex/Clomid ? Arimidex/Nolva is still better than just Arimidex or Nolva alone.

No one I or he knows can get HCG at the moment.

Caber is not obtainable in the time frame needed.

tell him to get some research chems
here:
www.ar-r.com

you can get nolvadex there

**mick86** · 09-06-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by jg42058p

I guess you misinterpreted what I said.
What I meant was - "effective" in terms of the gains he would get
You'd need to run that cycle longer to get serious gains...

I do agree that deca and tren would shut him down severely
and in the long run, using that much juice for only 5 weeks with no PCT he probably would be right back where he started at to begin with

Yes PCT is definitely needed. I guess I didn't emphasize it enough.

I believe that he stopped his cycle short due to feeling like it wasn't working for him in the later weeks. His whole cycle was a mess but alarmingly it was nothing compared to other people I know. I am doing my best to responsibly inform all of my friends and even those who aren't friends but just people who I bump into and who are running dangerous, counter productive cycles.

**mick86** · 09-06-2008, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by jg42058p

tell him to get some research chems
here:
www.ar-r.com

you can get nolvadex there

ar-r usually take over around 2 months to get me their products, and last I heard from them they are no longer shipping to Australia. They refunded my last order and said they could not send it.

He already has access to Nolvadex , Arimidex and Clomid. He would not want to wait for ar-r even if they would send it as time is of the essence here imo. Plus there is still a risk with customs taking it with ar-r.

**mick86** · 09-07-2008, 04:43 AM

To follow up hes going to run

Tamoxifen 40mg ed for 1 week then 20mg ed for 2 weeks
Arimidex .5mg ed for 2 weeks

Though a longer PCT period wold be advisable he is determined to start another cycle in 3 weeks time. I figure that this is better than nothing. ALso yes I realise that Nolva & Aroma are not an ideal combo but again better than nothing or just one or the other.

**Kale** · 09-07-2008, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

To follow up hes going to run

Tamoxifen 40mg ed for 1 week then 20mg ed for 2 weeks
Arimidex .5mg ed for 2 weeks

Though a longer PCT period wold be advisable he is determined to start another cycle in 3 weeks time. I figure that this is better than nothing. ALso yes I realise that Nolva & Aroma are not an ideal combo but again better than nothing or just one or the other.

If he is going to do that, which I dont advise, then PCT now would be a complete waste of time

**mick86** · 09-07-2008, 06:07 AM

Could you please elaborate on that. I figured that it would be better that he try to recover between cycles than just shut him self down from the end of his cycle until the beginning of his net. Is there a floor in my logic?

**Kale** · 09-07-2008, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

Could you please elaborate on that. I figured that it would be better that he try to recover between cycles than just shut him self down from the end of his cycle until the beginning of his net. Is there a floor in my logic?

Because three weeks wont be enough time for him to really recover AND get the benefits of recovery. Personally I think he should do a PCT of four weeks then take five weeks off before starting another cycle. Otherwise he might just as well start the next cycle now, and tell him to make it a decent one. What is he planning for that ?

**mick86** · 09-07-2008, 06:50 AM

4 weeks d-bol at 30mg/ day I think

3000mg tren not sure how hes dosing it. Hes was going to use tren ace but ended up getting 2000mg tren e 1000mg tren a to save cash.

Between 300mg and 350mg per week I think so 8-10 weeks. Initially he was advisd than 150mg per week was a good dose for tren but I told him to up it to at least 300mg (ideally 350mg) pw.

**Braveheart04** · 09-07-2008, 07:11 AM

Here is a perfect example of the old saying; "If you don't know, ask someone who does"

**mick86** · 09-07-2008, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Braveheart04

Here is a perfect example of the old saying; "If you don't know, ask someone who does"

I'm not quite sure who you are referring to with that comment. If you mean my friend well he sort of did ask me but disregarded my advice. If you are referring to me I am trying to ask somebody who knows more than I do so that I can then properly advise my friend.

**Braveheart04** · 09-07-2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by mick86

I'm not quite sure who you are referring to with that comment. If you mean my friend well he sort of did ask me but disregarded my advice. If you are referring to me I am trying to ask somebody who knows more than I do so that I can then properly advise my friend.

Bro. I meant your friend, not you. "Sorta" asking doesn't cut it when your are dealing with gear. You get the info BEFORE you start this stuff, that way you don't mess yourself up. You are being very smart actually asking questions.

**Braveheart04** · 09-07-2008, 09:53 AM

Mick86, my advice to your friend at this point is this. Do an aggressive PCT until he brings his test levels back, then have this guy do some major reading and studying before he does another cycle. Tell him to find a good teacher, that's what I did.

**levityone** · 09-07-2008, 10:08 AM

yo if u can get arimadex than your boy is str8, that literally destroys estrogen, as far as his natural test levels than HCG is the quickest solution, no need for tamoxifen AND arimidex , your wasting the nolva cause there is no estrogen to block when arimidex is destroying it all. if no hcg is available than clomid is the next best thing, but as long as he takes arimidex than his natural test levels will eventually be restored with no adverse effects

god bless arimidex

**mick86** · 09-07-2008, 01:37 PM

Appreciate all the input. Basicly yes he did his first cycle with out being properly informed. The guy who had advised him to run the tren and no pct is also a friend of mine but as well as that guy being a little mentally slow he got his "knowledge" from bodybuilders who don't know what they are talking about and certainly don't research online.

Anyway I told him about Kale's advice of cycling now and he was in favor of that.. I don't think that I could convince him to wait longer than 3 weeks anyway, he is on a mission to get before he has to travel. He aspires to play professional rugby.

I at least told him to include test in his cycle (so now its d-bol/test/tren), and run very serious PCT once the cycle is over. I also told him to stop listening to that other guys advice if he cares about his health. That other guy advised my friend to run a tren/dbol /deca cycle for his first one. That was appalling advice. I will make sure that he doesn't do anything crazy this time, I don;t want to see him screw up his health.