Front Loading: A Right Way?

**jc95605** · 09-09-2008, 10:29 PM

No 1 AI thoughtout your cycle will be enough. You don't need 2 SERMs while on cycle. Save them for pct.

**jc95605** · 09-09-2008, 10:30 PM

I guess our graphs show different things. I dunno i'm lost now, lol. Hope they helped you tho.

**Reed** · 09-09-2008, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by jc95605

I guess our graphs show different things. I dunno i'm lost now, lol. Hope they helped you tho.

I understand them since I was looking for the info

**jc95605** · 09-09-2008, 10:33 PM

good.....at least somebody does.

**oker** · 09-09-2008, 10:38 PM

Did you see that graph by smitty? Here it is again -http://forums.steroid .com/showthread.php?t=355493

Yes bro great help as I didn't take into account plasma levels when frontloading, which would be different when not frontloading. I don't think these graphs contradict each other yours indicates how to keep plasma level even when frontloading, but smitty's indicates overall plasma levels when not frontloading. There is a distinct difference when you look at both sets. In short, the 2 graphs bring up an interesting point about frontloading as the plasma levels are obviously going to be different when frontloading as apposed to not frontloading.

**jc95605** · 09-09-2008, 10:44 PM

Ok getting it now, lol.

**oker** · 09-09-2008, 10:55 PM

So does anyone know what happened to 189?

**jc95605** · 09-09-2008, 11:01 PM

i wanna know too

**sharky** · 09-09-2008, 11:01 PM

i have no idea but i am really wanting to know. i have not been around for a bit so i am behind on the gossip??????

**abstrack** · 09-09-2008, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

I dont understand why it isn't a good idea. Why wait 4-6 weeks for it to kick in when it may only take 2 weeks. Plus I am only able to do 10 weeks so I am not wanting to wait till week 5 for the stuff to kick in. I wanted to run the main stay of all my future cycles by itself without orals plus I'm not looking to become a pincushion on my first cycle. Not trying to argue just wanting more opinions on the matter

I dont think you read my post correctly. I never said it wasnt a good idea. I personally do not think it is all worth it. I personally to like to run longer cycles.

If your main bug is to not wait then run a short ester for 4 weeks in the beginning, or an oral. That would be basically doing the same thing but on a much safer note. Being your first cycle and you worrying about poking yourself daily, but yet your looking into front loading gear with out knowing how your body is going to react to an abundance of test.

You're not going to feel anything quicker. If X took 100mg on day 1 and Y took 500 mg on day 1. Both parties will "feel" the gear at the same time. Y would only have a higher level of test in the body at a given time & duration. This is considering that all is equal.

See if it works for you. Some people like to do it, and some people dont. You have to find out what works for you safely.

**TranscriptionFactor** · 09-09-2008, 11:55 PM

If you had both Prop and E, and say you were doing 75 ED of Prop, how would you switch over to E to make a smooth transition?

**Reed** · 09-10-2008, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by abstrack

I dont think you read my post correctly. I never said it wasnt a good idea. I personally do not think it is all worth it. I personally to like to run longer cycles.

If your main bug is to not wait then run a short ester for 4 weeks in the beginning, or an oral. That would be basically doing the same thing but on a much safer note. Being your first cycle and you worrying about poking yourself daily, but yet your looking into front loading gear with out knowing how your body is going to react to an abundance of test.

You're not going to feel anything quicker. If X took 100mg on day 1 and Y took 500 mg on day 1. Both parties will "feel" the gear at the same time. Y would only have a higher level of test in the body at a given time & duration. This is considering that all is equal.

See if it works for you. Some people like to do it, and some people dont. You have to find out what works for you safely.

Wouldn't you think I'd have a higher possibility of risking infection or other possible negative outcomes to injecting ed for 10 wks then by my body having some sort of negative reaction to high levels of test from frontloading.

And I'm not following the second paragraph with the X and Y example. Are you saying front loading won't work.

**marcus300** · 09-10-2008, 03:24 AM

I love front loading, i can cut the cycle down in length and i respond better running at peak blood levels within the first week, the body grows quicker from the start of any cycle and why not be running at peak rather than waiting till wk 4-5 with a long est? pointless IMHO. It may not suit everyone but if your one of them guys who it does you will never go back to normal way of running a cycle, thats for sure. Try it and see for yourself, we are all different and respond in different ways.

Double the injections up to the first half life

**abstrack** · 09-10-2008, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Wouldn't you think I'd have a higher possibility of risking infection or other possible negative outcomes to injecting ed for 10 wks then by my body having some sort of negative reaction to high levels of test from frontloading.

And I'm not following the second paragraph with the X and Y example. Are you saying front loading won't work.

I never said to shoot anything ed. The only thing I mentioned is running an oral in the first 3-4 weeks or a short ester such as prop, tren , ECT...

i dont think infection is at the top of the list in things you needs to worry about. It does happen, but rarely. If you front load with a long ester and have some side effects to the test that you need to control. You cant just pull back and wait a few days as if you were front loading with prop. You would basically have to wait it out. Make sense?

All I am saying in the example is if you were to shoot 500mg on day one and I was going to shoot 100mg on day one. You wouldn't "feel" anything before me. You would only have a higher level of free test in your body at a given time and duration.

See what works for you. Like I said. This is just my .02. Some people like to do it, and some people dont really care for it.

Front loading does work in regards to getting a higher concentration of free test in your body at a given time & duration. There is no question about it. There are other ways to do it to if you dont want to wait 4-5 weeks and are looking to "feel" something in the first couple of weeks.

If you had both Prop and E, and say you were doing 75 ED of Prop, how would you switch over to E to make a smooth transition?

There doesnt need to be any kind of transition You shoot your test e at the same does from day one. All you are doing is running test p at 75mg-100mg ed or eod for the first 4 weeks. At week 4 you stop running test p.

See what works for you. This is just my .02.

If you were to do it. Typically what you do it run 1000mg in the first week, then on week 2 you go back to 500mg.

**Reed** · 09-10-2008, 11:48 AM

Thanks for everyone's input!

**TranscriptionFactor** · 09-10-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

There doesnt need to be any kind of transition You shoot your test e at the same does from day one. All you are doing is running test p at 75mg-100mg ed or eod for the first 4 weeks. At week 4 you stop running test p.

Ok, I was just concerned that since Test E supposedly takes 4-5 wks to "kick in", if you stopped your Prop totally and went right into shooting 500 EW (in 2 divided doses) of Test E, there would be this lag time or "trough" where your Test would be low and you'd feel weak, get all kinds of bad side effects??

No??

**TranscriptionFactor** · 09-13-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by TranscriptionFactor

Ok, I was just concerned that since Test E supposedly takes 4-5 wks to "kick in", if you stopped your Prop totally and went right into shooting 500 EW (in 2 divided doses) of Test E, there would be this lag time or "trough" where your Test would be low and you'd feel weak, get all kinds of bad side effects??

No??

Sorry to bump this question, but can someone please explain it to me why its not the case? Meaning, why is abstrack right, which I don't doubt.http://forums.steroid.com/images/smilies/new/shrug.gif

**jc95605** · 09-14-2008, 12:25 AM

Ya i was suprised to see this thread bumped. I THINK what he means is that you take the test e the whole time. At the same time you take the test prop. After 4-5 wks of taking both you can stop taking the test prop cause the enthante should be kicking in. Thats what i think anyway. Haven't done that, I just frontload.

**wukillabee** · 09-14-2008, 01:10 AM

Stop bein a pus*y and hit up the prop! J/k bro. Seriously though, if ur lookin for a quick first cycle and not wanting to wait for the kick then why not prop ed for 8 weeks bro? Im sure ur gonna use prop for ur second cycle pre-contest and probably stacked with another short ester or oral. If so, then this way you'll be more accustomed to the prop. Just goin on from what we talked about before so dont flame me everyone else. If u have a source for test e then im sure u can get prop bro. But, if u dont want to go this route and stick with the test e then id frontload. U know my cycle and waiting 4-5 weeks to feel something isnt fun. Build those lvls up 1st week bro. I know myself when i do another long ester cycle ima front load it for sure and see the difference for myself. Check ur email fu*ker, got a funny email i forwarded to u. Either way, let me know what ur gonna do on this one bro, love to follow ur log and cant want to see how u can improve on the great base u got without aas. Ur gonna love this stuff man!

**abstrack** · 09-14-2008, 05:59 AM

Ya i was suprised to see this thread bumped. I THINK what he means is that you take the test e the whole time. At the same time you take the test prop. After 4-5 wks of taking both you can stop taking the test prop cause the enthante should be kicking in. Thats what i think anyway. Haven't done that, I just frontload.

Correct.

Here, let me lay it out for you.

Test prop:
Weeks 1-4 @ 75mg/day or you could even run it weeks 1-5 @ 75mg/day

Test E:
Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg/week
--------------------------------
What you are doing is this.

Test E:
Week 1 @ 1000mg
Week 2-10 @ 500mg/week

What you said in your first post is that you didnt want to wait to feel the test "kick in"

What I am telling you is that front loading isnt going to "kick it in" any faster. You still are using a long ester. All that you are doing is giving yourself more test in the first week, so when it does "kick in" so to speak you will have a more elevate level of test e in your body at a given time and duration. There is still a waiting period. Your using a long ester.

If your main gripe is waiting to long. Start your cycle off with a short ester such a prop or an oral. Those will kick in so to speak a lot faster while your levels of test e begin to rise in the coming weeks.

There is no lag time period, or downtown time between using a short ester and a long ester the way I laid it out. You shouldnt feel week unless you are week to begin with, and there shouldnt be any bad side effects or no less less than if you were to front load with just test e.

The good thing with front loading with a short ester is that if you do have bad side effects, you can back off immediately and control your variable. Make sense?

**helium3** · 09-14-2008, 06:27 AM

i think the above just about covers it.

however i frontloaded my first cycle of test e and loved it, i now frontload all my cycles, they tend to be 2-3 weeks shorter than a "standard" cycle but i prefer it that way.

when i frontload test prop i usually feel "on" after a couple of days , and test e about 2 weeks. everyone is different.

just go 500mg a week for 10 weeks an see what happens. no need to complicate anything on your first cycle, you will grow like a weed anyway!

**Doub1e_J** · 09-14-2008, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by jc95605

I didn't know 189 was banned....damn when did this happen?

He is on another forum and he said he was banned because him and his gf both had accounts here. Said two different accounts on the same IP was a problem.

**wukillabee** · 09-14-2008, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Doub1e_J

He is on another forum and he said he was banned because him and his gf both had accounts here. Said two different accounts on the same IP was a problem.

He got banned from the other forum too, the both of em! Probably hiding under a rock now with his rep.

**wukillabee** · 09-14-2008, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

Correct.

Here, let me lay it out for you.

Test prop:
Weeks 1-4 @ 75mg/day or you could even run it weeks 1-5 @ 75mg/day

Test E:
Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg/week
--------------------------------
What you are doing is this.

Test E:
Week 1 @ 1000mg
Week 2-10 @ 500mg/week

What you said in your first post is that you didnt want to wait to feel the test "kick in"

What I am telling you is that front loading isnt going to "kick it in" any faster. You still are using a long ester. All that you are doing is giving yourself more test in the first week, so when it does "kick in" so to speak you will have a more elevate level of test e in your body at a given time and duration. There is still a waiting period. Your using a long ester.

If your main gripe is waiting to long. Start your cycle off with a short ester such a prop or an oral. Those will kick in so to speak a lot faster while your levels of test e begin to rise in the coming weeks.

There is no lag time period, or downtown time between using a short ester and a long ester the way I laid it out. You shouldnt feel week unless you are week to begin with, and there shouldnt be any bad side effects or no less less than if you were to front load with just test e.

The good thing with front loading with a short ester is that if you do have bad side effects, you can back off immediately and control your variable. Make sense?

Abstract,
Ur way does sound a little better than the regular frntload theory but how does this work? U say prop weeks 1-4 and test e weeks 1-12 right? Prop @75mg ed as u said equals 525mg a week. My question here is where is the test e? U say weeks 1-4 stack 75mg ed of prop with test e and some how get a weekly total of 500mg test? Maybe i read it wrong but from ur post it says clearly weeks 1-4 prop, weeks 1-12 test e. That would mean to me ur stacking prop and test e for the first 4 weeks but how do u dose that at 75mg ed as u said and use test e as well and get a weekly total of 500mg? Im gonna frontload my next cycle for sure and was thinking of doing ur method with the prop (since my 3rd cycle willl be prop/tren ) so i can see how i react to it and what kind of pain it really gives off. Just need some basic clarification here. Thanks Abstract!
Unless ur saying do 1025mg a week of for 4 weeks since u say prop ed @ 75mg for weeks 1-4 and then say test e weeks 1-12 @ 500mg a week but im sure ur not trying to say that.

**Reed** · 09-14-2008, 04:31 PM

This whole thread is just f*cking my understanding up more than anything. haha. I guess I'll just use the prop for 75 mg ed for 8 weeks to see how I react. Simple

And I was wondering about wukillabees question too
I've seen other suggestion where you do the prop and E at the same time but dose the E lower until week 5 where you bump it up to the dose your gonna run till the end of the cycle.

Example:
Wk 1-4: 75ed Prop
Wk 1-4: 250mg Test E
Wk 5-12: 5-600mg Test E

PLEASE HELP THE SHORT BUS CHILDREN!!

**wukillabee** · 09-14-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

This whole thread is just f*cking my understanding up more than anything. haha. I guess I'll just use the prop for 75 mg ed for 8 weeks to see how I react. Simple

And I was wondering about wukillabees question too
I've seen other suggestion where you do the prop and E at the same time but dose the E lower until week 5 where you bump it up to the dose your gonna run till the end of the cycle.

Example:
Wk 1-4: 75ed Prop
Wk 1-4: 250mg Test E
Wk 5-12: 5-600mg Test E

PLEASE HELP THE SHORT BUS CHILDREN!!

Haha, us short bus people dont get it. Still, if u took 75mg ed of prop=525mg a week and add 250mg of test e to that givin u 775mg a week for weeks 1-4 so ur way doesnt work either. Maybe us short bus people can figure it out if Abstract doesnt reply soon.

**wukillabee** · 09-15-2008, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

Correct.

Here, let me lay it out for you.

Test prop:
Weeks 1-4 @ 75mg/day or you could even run it weeks 1-5 @ 75mg/day

Test E:
Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg/week
--------------------------------
What you are doing is this.

Test E:
Week 1 @ 1000mg
Week 2-10 @ 500mg/week

What you said in your first post is that you didnt want to wait to feel the test "kick in"

What I am telling you is that front loading isnt going to "kick it in" any faster. You still are using a long ester. All that you are doing is giving yourself more test in the first week, so when it does "kick in" so to speak you will have a more elevate level of test e in your body at a given time and duration. There is still a waiting period. Your using a long ester.

If your main gripe is waiting to long. Start your cycle off with a short ester such a prop or an oral. Those will kick in so to speak a lot faster while your levels of test e begin to rise in the coming weeks.

There is no lag time period, or downtown time between using a short ester and a long ester the way I laid it out. You shouldnt feel week unless you are week to begin with, and there shouldnt be any bad side effects or no less less than if you were to front load with just test e.

The good thing with front loading with a short ester is that if you do have bad side effects, you can back off immediately and control your variable. Make sense?

Bump for abstract or anyone who ca explain this too us please. Also see questions in above 3 posts concerning this.

**wukillabee** · 09-15-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

This whole thread is just f*cking my understanding up more than anything. haha. I guess I'll just use the prop for 75 mg ed for 8 weeks to see how I react. Simple

And I was wondering about wukillabees question too
I've seen other suggestion where you do the prop and E at the same time but dose the E lower until week 5 where you bump it up to the dose your gonna run till the end of the cycle.

Example:
Wk 1-4: 75ed Prop
Wk 1-4: 250mg Test E
Wk 5-12: 5-600mg Test E

PLEASE HELP THE SHORT BUS CHILDREN!!

Damn reed, looks like no one wants or can eloborate on abstracts theory for us. Oh well, guess back to the majority of double the dose for the first week. Believe marcus300 and others have made stickies and discussions on the double first week theory. Seems to be the most popular anyway and the mojority doing it that way i guess ima give that one a go next cycle and see the difference.

**abstrack** · 09-16-2008, 07:15 AM

what is the question? I am not following what has become so hard to understand.

**abstrack** · 09-16-2008, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Haha, us short bus people dont get it. Still, if u took 75mg ed of prop=525mg a week and add 250mg of test e to that givin u 775mg a week for weeks 1-4 so ur way doesnt work either. Maybe us short bus people can figure it out if Abstract doesnt reply soon.

What? If you did prop every day at 75mg and took test e at 500mg/week, you would would be front loading the first 4 weeks at 1025mg. Thats a sure fire way to get your test levels elevated isnt it?

75X7=525+500=1025mg

How is that not front loading?

What is front loading?

What is the purpose or theory behind front loading?

**wukillabee** · 09-16-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

What? If you did prop every day at 75mg and took test e at 500mg/week, you would would be front loading the first 4 weeks at 1025mg. Thats a sure fire way to get your test levels elevated isnt it?

75X7=525+500=1025mg

How is that not front loading?

What is front loading?

What is the purpose or theory behind front loading?

Thanks, makes perfect sense now.