eq or deca during a test e+dbol cycle

[Nworb]

I am planning on running
1-12 10mg nolva ed
1-12 test @500 a week
1-4Dbol @ 50 a day

Should I add:
1-12 400mg of deca a week
or
1 800 mg of eq frontload first week
2-12 400mg of eq a week

Which should I choose and why?
i wanna add hcg mid cycle
and an hcg clomid pct
any thoughts?

[Nworb]

or since this will be my second cycle should i just stick to test and dbol

[Drake Hotel]

or since this will be my second cycle should i just stick to test and dbol

Yup.

[Nworb]

do you think i should run 750 test or keep it to 500
my last cycle i ran 500mg of test for 12 weeks and put on like 35 pounds and kept maybe 27 or 28

[Nworb]

just another thought

[Drake Hotel]

do you think i should run 750 test or keep it to 500
my last cycle i ran 500mg of test for 12 weeks and put on like 35 pounds and kept maybe 27 or 28

What kind of test, E or C? And let me tell you that that 27-28lbs was not lean mass

250mg test E twice weekly should do. Good diet with heavy training.

[Nworb]

test e and yea it might not of been totally lean but looked good as shit and my arm and shoulders were rock hard with no fat, you only see the line that runs down my abs, and faintly the top of the top two, but other than that i was like 235 when it was all said and done @ 5 foot 10

[Nworb]

are you suggesting that I even scrap the dbol ?

[Drake Hotel]

are you suggesting that I even scrap the dbol?

Yeah possibly. What's your stats and cycle history? Instead of dbol you can just frontload on the first injection, jump start that cycle.

[Nworb]

one cycle of test e for 12 weeks
and i did 400mg of eq for like the first 6 which was totally pointless but i got it free
and 50 winny ed

im 5 foot 9 like 225 pounds right now
i think im 18 percent bf

[Drake Hotel]

one cycle of test e for 12 weeks
and i did 400mg of eq for like the first 6 which was totally pointless but i got it free
and 50 winny ed

im 5 foot 9 like 225 pounds right now
i think im 18 percent bf

Ok, how long ago was this?

[Nworb]

thats how big i am right now...the cycle was like a year and a half ago

[Drake Hotel]

thats how big i am right now...the cycle was like a year and a half ago

It's good that you've waited so long since your last cycle. You seem to have built quite a bit of muscle naturally, well done! For your second cycle I'd say test E twice weekly at 250mg per shot, or test E once weekly at 450mg per shot, for about two months. Then pct. Something like this:

W1-9 Test E 250mg twice weekly, or Test C 450mg once weekly
W11-15 (circa) pct

[Nworb]

what does circa mean, and why do u choose 10, or 9 weeks over 12?

[WARMachine]

I am planning on running
1-12 10mg nolva ed (Nolva on cycle is dumb, get an AI)
1-12 test @500 a week (This is cool)
1-4Dbol @ 50 a day (Thats a high dose IMO.)

Should I add:
1-12 400mg of deca a week (No! Thats not how long youd run it anyway.)
or
1 800 mg of eq frontload first week (Why would you frontload EQ? if you want, run EQ at 500 all the way through.)
2-12 400mg of eq a week

Which should I choose and why?
i wanna add hcg mid cycle
and an hcg clomid pct
any thoughts?

HCG and Clomid are not enough for PCT. You need Nolvadex !

I like to run HCG for the last two weeks of cycle, and first two weeks of PCT.

Something like this:


1-12 Test E @ 250mg 2xW
1-12 EQ @ 250mg 2xW
1-4 Dbol @ 30 ED


Nolva 20mgs ED 1-4
Clomid 50mgs 1-2, Clomid 25mgs 3-4
HCG 500IU's 2xW for 4 weeks.


btw, you need to get your BF% down before cycling again. Unless you like tits...

[WARMachine]

what does circa mean, and why do u choose 10, or 9 weeks over 12?

cause hes nuts...

Test E can take up to 7 weeks in some cases to fully gain effect. No one with half a brain would run Test E for less than 10 weeks.

Most guys do 12-14 weeks. Which is best.

[Drake Hotel]

cause hes nuts...

Test E can take up to 7 weeks in some cases to fully gain effect. No one with half a brain would run Test E for less than 10 weeks.

Most guys do 12-14 weeks. Which is best.

Haha! Well that's where our views differ I suppose


Nworb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circa :P

[WARMachine]

Are you gonna actually sit there and say test e doesnt take AT LEAST a month to kick?

[Drake Hotel]

Are you gonna actually sit there and say test e doesnt take AT LEAST a month to kick?

Been saying it openly or implying it for the last 100 posts or so, so yes I'm always assuming frontloading btw, without it I agree it takes quite some time for it to really kick in.

[LATS60]

Stick with test and dbol for this cycle, jmo.

[WARMachine]

Been saying it openly or implying it for the last 100 posts or so, so yes I'm always assuming frontloading btw, without it I agree it takes quite some time for it to really kick in.

How long to you think it actually takes then?

id love to see some supporting evidence as well?

[Drake Hotel]

How long to you think it actually takes then?

id love to see some supporting evidence as well?

Really war, I don't see why you choose to bring this up in this particular thread. You know I've stated that's my "belief" many times already. I'm not gonna argue with you either, thereby hopefully not robbing you of too much enjoyment Long cycles apparently work well for you, why would you even want to argue about it?

[WARMachine]

Im just simply saying, Test E DOES take at least 4 weeks to gain effect. It routinely takes up to 6-7 weeks.

Im not arguing, its just a fact.

Im just trying to understand where your "belief" stems from? Because i know its not from factual evidence. If you think that 8 or 9 weeks of a Test E cycle works great for you then more power to you bro! By all means, keep doing what youre doing!

Just dont recommend it to others saying it works, when you dont have factual evidence to support it... Thats why im bringing it up.

There is enough bad advice floating around here as it is.

[Drake Hotel]

Im just simply saying, Test E DOES take at least 4 weeks to gain effect. It routinely takes up to 6-7 weeks.

Im not arguing, its just a fact.

Im just trying to understand where your "belief" stems from? Because i know its not from factual evidence. If you think that 8 or 9 weeks of a Test E cycle works great for you then more power to you bro! By all means, keep doing what youre doing!

Just dont recommend it to others saying it works, when you dont have factual evidence to support it... Thats why im bringing it up.

There is enough bad advice floating around here as it is.

That's called arguing bro I'll tell you where I got it from though. Was actually the book "Building the Perfect Beast", don't know if you've read it but it should be available for downloading somewhere. My ideas are of course reinforced by the results I've been getting myself not from 8 or 9 weeks but even 4 weeks. It's also of note that marcus300 said, regarding short cycles:

Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more.

Your Thoughts about Short Cycles.

[jstraw428]

EQ sucks.....

[WARMachine]

Ok, the way Marcus says to run short BURST cycles is completely different from what youre saying.

Duration - Short burst cycling usually last for around 30 days, there is no set rule on the length of cycle and normally it can be open ended and stopped when growth slows/stops. You have to listen to the body and adjust, with burst cycling it shouldn't be ran for long periods of time, longer doesn't mean more or better gains.Keep it short and feed the growth window and build the tissue and stop, recover and maintain.

Over your cycle history you would of tried the heavy dosages and seen the sides come and where its not worth the risk's to muscle gain, this is why its kept to a short period before the body can adjust with sides the cycle is over and growth is completed. Individual dosages are designed off your cycle history, there is no set dose it all depends on what your cycle history looks like, someone who normally uses 500mg per wk will be completely different to the guy who uses 1500mgs per wk when designing short burst cycles, but both will have the benefit of using high amounts what they normally don't run.

Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more.

Its not the same as you saying to run a Test E cycle @ 500mgs a week for 8 or 9 weeks!

Hes talking about high dose short burst cycles, youre saying it doesnt take but what? A few weeks for Test E to kick?

There is a huge difference of what Marcus is posting, and what youre saying.

[WARMachine]

EQ sucks.....

I knew it was a matter of time before you said that!

Care to add some Vet imput brother?

[jstraw428]

I agree with War on this one......i think you might have interpretted what Marcus said about short burst cycles.....

[jstraw428]

I hate EQ even more than i hate Sust.......at least with sust, you can see some results.....

[LATS60]

I agree drake, unless i start upping the dose of test the gains are really starting to slow by wks 8-9, my blast wether long or short esters only last 9wks, after that it's a waste of money for little gain, war, test does not take 6-7wks to fully kick in.

[jstraw428]

Test E is active in your system from day one, but due to the esters weight, you are not getting the full amount of mgs>>>>>also it is released slowly over a period of time....although the test is active, it will not reach stable levels(kick in time) until about the 3-4 week......unless you frontload your test, which is the whole idea behind short burst cycles.....

[LATS60]

Oh and straw, your right EQ does suck.

[WARMachine]

I agree drake, unless i start upping the dose of test the gains are really starting to slow by wks 8-9, my blast wether long or short esters only last 9wks, after that it's a waste of money for little gain, war, test does not take 6-7wks to fully kick in.

Im well aware of that... Im simply saying it doesnt happen in a week or two at a normal dose of 500mgs a week. It will take at least 4 weeks.

[Drake Hotel]

Ok, the way Marcus says to run short BURST cycles is completely different from what youre saying.

Its not the same as you saying to run a Test E cycle @ 500mgs a week for 8 or 9 weeks!

Hes talking about high dose short burst cycles, youre saying it doesnt take but what? A few weeks for Test E to kick?

There is a huge difference of what Marcus is posting, and what youre saying.

Could you please point out more exactly where this "huge" difference lies? I don't see it.


Exactly jstraw.

[LATS60]

Test E is active in your system from day one, but due to the esters weight, you are not getting the full amount of mgs>>>>>also it is released slowly over a period of time....although the test is active, it will not reach stable levels(kick in time) until about the 3-4 week......unless you frontload your test, which is the whole idea behind short burst cycles.....

Now now, you know as well as i do, or you should do that peak test levels are reached within 48hrs, so you are getting the full amount of mgs, it just needs 4wks of injecting to reach stable supraphysiological levels, it's not until supra-p levels are reached and stabilised that the effects are felt and seen.
Thats the whole idea behind frontloading.

[WARMachine]

It's good that you've waited so long since your last cycle. You seem to have built quite a bit of muscle naturally, well done! For your second cycle I'd say test E twice weekly at 250mg per shot, or test E once weekly at 450mg per shot, for about two months. Then pct. Something like this:

W1-9 Test E 250mg twice weekly, or Test C 450mg once weekly
W11-15 (circa) pct

Here? You say 9 weeks of Test E @ 500mgs a week?

Im saying most people dont run a Test E cycle less than 10-12 weeks.

Marcus is talking about short 30day burst cycles with high doses around 1500mgs. thats when hes talking about running long esters for a short period of time.

9 weeks is longer than 30 days. And 500mgs and 1500mgs a week is a HUGE difference.

[LATS60]

[QUOTE=war4BTT;4219008]Im just simply saying, Test E DOES take at least 4 weeks to gain effect. It routinely takes up to 6-7 weeks.
QUOTE]

Sorry war, am i missing something.

[WARMachine]

Now now, you know as well as i do, or you should do that peak test levels are reached within 48hrs, so you are getting the full amount of mgs, it just needs 4wks of injecting to reach stable supraphysiological levels, it's not until supra-p levels are reached and stabilised that the effects are felt and seen.
Thats the whole idea behind frontloading.

Agreed... Though Drake was not suggesting a frontloaded cycle.

He suggested a 9 week Test E cycle at 500mgs a week.

If TS were to frontload his cycle, i would say 10 weeks is fine. Although i would keep doing test E for 2-4 weeks or until gains seem to stop.

[WARMachine]

Im just simply saying, Test E DOES take at least 4 weeks to gain effect. It routinely takes up to 6-7 weeks.

Nope i dont think you are!

[jstraw428]

Here? You say 9 weeks of Test E @ 500mgs a week?

Im saying most people dont run a Test E cycle less than 10-12 weeks.

Marcus is talking about short 30day burst cycles with high doses around 1500mgs. thats when hes talking about running long esters for a short period of time.

9 weeks is longer than 30 days. And 500mgs and 1500mgs a week is a HUGE difference.

I am agreeing with War again on this one.......This is how i took marcus short burst cycle reads......

Where is the man Marcus, maybe he can put an end to all this....