Non-FLAMERS abused here

[setsthesun]

i see this forum and others like it as an unique place for bodybuilders. We come here and share knowledge about working out, nutrition, and different types of supplementation, legal or not, and sometimes even more. People share pictures and stories, and even sometimes feel the need to just come here and shout their troubles. That is all wonderful. But i see these places turning into some kind of sick support groups. Everyone's ego must be cherished and protected it seems. And anyone...i mean anyone, no matter what his status on the forum is, can be seen as a flamer and treated as one.
I see no more honesc opinions. I see small fat guys posting pics of themselves and everybody tells them they've got "a good base". These same guys use big amounts of AAS with no results to speak of. None whatsoever. Fat guys who've been 3 months on steroids and have dropped 3% bodyfat get congratulations like "great progress". The only thing that comes to my mind is "moron, stop using steroids because you're gonna fuck yourself up and end up nowhere". That can be written like this

"friend, you don;t need steroids as you can lose weight with a sound workout and diet plan"

but how do we end up with:

"great work man...you've got a good base there and have done some great progress lately"

I mean what are these boards turning into...support groups for bodybuilders who aren;t really bodybuilders and can't make gains? Those same bodybuilders have such frail egos that they see any criticism as a FLAME and start shouting for the mods. And so does everyone around them, who seem even more concerned about these people's frail egos.

Are bald people in support groups really proud of being bald? Are fat people in support groups for fat people really proud of being fat? No....they will never accomplish that. So why would a support group for shitty bodybuilders make them feel less shitty about themselves? I mean how does a guy who has done 5 cycles (there are pictures of him at the member's pictures area) and to the normal man doesn;t look like he has even touched a weight in his life feel? I think he's one insecure "bodybuilder" who will probably only increase dosages and end up nowhere.

I say let's stop patting each other's fat bellies and, if honesc criticism is considered a FLAME, let's start FLAMING people. It will help them a lot more than the dishonest cudos do.

[D.L.]

Let me be the first too say that you are so right!
In some of these people you really can't tell the difference from before and after... and if you can it could absolutely be obtained without the use of AAS...

[tt333]

This is supposed to be a non flame board. We encourage people here, not make fun of them. We dont make fun of them and call them "fat", or tell them to give up because its not going to help. Everybody can change the way the look if there dedicated to doing it. Why discourage that? Theres other boards on here that are good at flaming, try one of those if thats what your looking for.

[MR PHATT ASS]

.....i swear i really dont mind if you call me PHATT, MR ASS, PHATTY DADDY, ETC... .anyways welcome.........

[rangerdudeleads]

I think its always better to bring out the postive in someone rather than the negative. Positive remarks would motivate me more than hearing negative ones, dont you think?

[Ocnorb36]

First, this board is not all about "bodybuilding". It is about overall health, physical well being, powerlifting, amatuer sports, professional sports (in some cases) and other fitness related goals. Not all "fat" bros, as you call them, use large amounts of AS. There was a poll not too long ago and it was interesting that probably half of the members are natural.

You have missed the point of this board. There are many success stories out there from all types of bros because they were treated fairly and supported in their goals regardless of their size. When someone comes to the board at a young age and wants to experiment with AS the bros come out and, for the most part, intelligently discourage the use of said AS without lots of research and a chance to let ones body development naturally. Not flame bro, intelligently discuss. That is what this board is about and that is what sets it apart from the other flame boards.

This board is for everyone who is fitness minded and some that are not. Point is don't try to change what so many bros have worked their ass off to create: a board where all are welcome, the criticism is constructive, and flames are kept to a minimum. If you cannot deal with this type of support then just review the posts so you can become educated. This is one of the best boards around. Before you start trying to change it do your research, learn about the success stories, become more knowledgeable, then decide how you want to approach the bros here. As always, just my .02.

Oc

[djdjdjddjon]

i agree with setsthesun for the most part, the anti-flame thing is getting a little out of hand, most of the time i dont even think people who are getting the flame accusations usually aren't even flaming. Looking at things from my perspective, if im being an idiot, not thinking straight, could use some constructive criticism, or anything else i would much rather here it than have it hidden and candy coated, i.e. sometimes the truth hurts but its better in the end...jmho...

[setsthesun]

you didn;t understand me. I have nothing against fat people, skinny people, big people, short people, asian people, white people, black people, dead people or living people...not at all. I;m saying that the truth should be told no matter what that truth is. And don't tell me about success stories of the past....i am talking about what i saw yesterday. And i looked at all the topics in the memeber's pictures area. All of them.
If someone is fat he shouldn;t be discouraged. But he certainly shouldn;'t be applauded because he is fat. He should be supported, but in a constructive manner. And that goes for everyone.

I was talking about the tendency of people to take constructive criticism as FLAMING.

[BASK8KACE]

Setsthesun,

I'm glad you have a thick skin. You definitely need that to get through the world.

I disagree with you. There are some people who are trying to make it through this world who are a bit fragile, or need the extra positve reinforcement to get them over the hump. Why not be one of the people who supply it? If you feel you'd be lying by saying good things about some people, then don't respond to the post.

There is definitely a place for constructive criticsim, but just because someone is "flawed" in YOUR opinion, or "below average" doesn't mean that it HAS to be brought to thier attention by everyone who notices it. Don't you think that people who don't completely measure up to other more developed bodies and minds realize that already?

What's the harm in making the EXTRA EFFORT it takes to create and keep an atmostphere that this board has held for so long? Yes, it takes effort sometimes to encourage a person despite seeing what you may see as "flaws." Sometimes that encouragement makes litterally ALL the difference to the person.

I think this board is a unique place. I'm truly sick of people who keep complaining that they can't "constructively criticize." Yes you can--apparently--I've seen it done INTELLIGENTLY. The difference here is that you have to actually stop and THINK about what you're going to write before you write it.

There are people on other boards (and some who have made it here) who say things along the lines of "No offense...But you look like shit." (I'm exaggerating here to make a point). Do you really think that the phrase "no offense" is going to absolve you of all RESPONSIBLILITY to take time and think about the way your words might land on another human? NO it does not.

If you are truly striving to improve yourself, what does it matter if others are HELPED along. Just because you don't need the help doesn't mean others don't benefit greatly from it.

Before I write this statement I want to clarify that I'm not talking about you specifically, Setsthesun; I'm talking in general) I truly find it disturbing when someone cannot see the benefit in occasionally holding up another person, without compromising honesty. I also find one of the many marks of intelligence to be the ability to give constructive criticism that is ONLY constructive--it's not as easy as it seems. If you have a problem doing it, then why not use this forum as a place to improve YOURSELF by learning how to do it correctly. It's a skill that will help you go further in life. Remember--"It's easier to catch bees with honey than with vinegar." For those who might not get that--think of the bees as people around you that you may need to work with.

Best,
BASK8KACE

[setsthesun]

to bask8kace....i know people need encouragement, but people need advice too. And too much encouragement makes advice seem useless to those who receive it. I don't think that any of the statements i made here about flaming or constructive criticism were agressive. Not at all...i think i tried to explain myself as clearly as i could, and i also tried to explain the fact that i no way am i trying to hurt people's feelings. In no way do i FLAME, or encourage flamers.

But i will keep saying this:

appreciation and applause should be something one should gain. All the members who are part of this community (or others) should strive for appreciation (if they want it). It's not something that should be granted for nothing. Criticism or praise should be given to anyone, and advice should always be free. But phrases like "good work bro, you're looking awesome" should be kept for the best, or for those who have done a great deal for themselves (without having the genetics to accomplish something great). Because i see people congratulationg mikexxl...who has an oustanding phisique, by using the same phrase that a normally developed, somewhat fat guy receives in another topic. That just ain;t right.

[djdjdjddjon]

Originally posted by BASK8KACE
Setsthesun,

I'm glad you have a thick skin. You definitely need that to get through the world.

I disagree with you. There are some people who are trying to make it through this world who are a bit fragile, or need the extra positve reinforcement to get them over the hump. Why not be one of the people who supply it? If you feel you'd be lying by saying good things about some people, then don't respond to the post.

There is definitely a place for constructive criticsim, but just because someone is "flawed" in YOUR opinion, or "below average" doesn't mean that it HAS to be brought to thier attention by everyone who notices it. Don't you think that people who don't completely measure up to other more developed bodies and minds realize that already?

What's the harm in making the EXTRA EFFORT it takes to create and keep an atmostphere that this board has held for so long? Yes, it takes effort sometimes to encourage a person despite seeing what you may see as "flaws." Sometimes that encouragement makes litterally ALL the difference to the person.

I think this board is a unique place. I'm truly sick of people who keep complaining that they can't "constructively criticize." Yes you can--apparently--I've seen it done INTELLIGENTLY. The difference here is that you have to actually stop and THINK about what you're going to write before you write it.

There are people on other boards (and some who have made it here) who say things along the lines of "No offense...But you look like shit." (I'm exaggerating here to make a point). Do you really think that the phrase "no offense" is going to absolve you of all RESPONSIBLILITY to take time and think about the way your words might land on another human? NO it does not.

If you are truly striving to improve yourself, what does it matter if others are HELPED along. Just because you don't need the help doesn't mean others don't benefit greatly from it.

Before I write this statement I want to clarify that I'm not talking about you specifically, Setsthesun; I'm talking in general) I truly find it disturbing when someone cannot see the benefit in occasionally holding up another person, without compromising honesty. I also find one of the many marks of intelligence to be the ability to give constructive criticism that is ONLY constructive--it's not as easy as it seems. If you have a problem doing it, then why not use this forum as a place to improve YOURSELF by learning how to do it correctly. It's a skill that will help you go further in life. Remember--"It's easier to catch bees with honey than with vinegar." For those who might not get that--think of the bees as people around you that you may need to work with.

Best,
BASK8KACE

agreed, great post.

[Jdawg50]

Ya, know I can take constructive critasim. I am looking for it, As a Junior member you really dont understand why this board is different than other boards. I feel comfortable here, and It takes a lot of nuts to post a pic of yourself. People are gonna do gear for their own reasons. I have mine, which include a very serious injury last year. I dont think thats any of your business. If you don't like the way things are here go over to anabolix. You can flame all you want there!

[OGPackin]

Ok setsthesun i feel i need to respond to ur post. U made some derogatory comments about my very good bro the other day and i feel ur trying to direct ur comments now to him! People on here are not only on here to get info about using AS. They are here to make a change in thier lives for the better IMO. Why would u flame someone for wanting to better themselves. Weather its mentally or physically?!? And i feel AS can help in both areas. Hey, iv once or twice flamed someone for asking a dumb question, but why would u flame someone for trying to loose weight and in the process feel better about themselves? I think u need to step back and and judge urself not others.

OG

[saint808]

Well some people get motivated in different ways... if you get motivated by someone telling you that you suck then that's great... but it's like the old cliche you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[nuke]

Setthesun- You have the right to your opinions and I feel ya bro. But i see more harm than good from flaming people.

I have to DISAGREE. I am one of those bros that had the balls to post my fat ass picture on this board. I opened myself to a world of critisism. Did I get any NO... If one has an ounce of intelligence they know if they are fat, skinny, black, white, dead, or alive. I, personally didnt need to hear that again.

Byu posting and getting critiques, positive ones, I have since went on to learn a ton about gear , nutrition,and overall fitness. I have LOST over 20 lbs and added lean muscle.

IF THIS IS PRIMARILY A BODYBUILDING BOARD, THEN I AM AT THE WRONG PLACE AND I NEED TO MOVE ON ! But I know differently and I have been able to help others.

Please feel free to respond.

[saint808]

heheh good point nuke... i like it when i post a pic and someone says you are fat.... i am like no shit brainiac... now tell me what i can do to overcome it.

[palme]

Nuke and saint808 you said it!

I retract my comment about posting up your own pics, Pete informed you had and you look great for 17 bro. Better then the guy using 2iu of GH (guessing it was him you meant?).

[Pete235]

Guys, lets ease up just a little on Seth. I honestly do not feel his intentions are malicious. From what I see he is just asking that we call em as we see em. Here is my take on responding to pics on this board. If somebody asks to be critiqued, then by all means let them know what you think needs work.Seth had the balls to post his pics and he looks very good...especially for his age. Now on the other hand if somebody is very fat or very thin and is making the neccesary adjustments to diet and training, them offer support and encouragement. They do not need to hear "You're still fat!" because they already know that. IMO something like "You can really see the progress" goes a long way to motivate that person to stay on track. If I see no difference from one picture to the next...I just don't respond, it's that simple. I will agree with one thing Seth said, there are pics I've seen of people who should nopt be using AAS, and I've said as much on several occasions. Anyway, not to ramble but I honestly don't think he was trying to fight.

[AnabolQ]

I have to agree with sethesun and this one. I get confused when someone post before and after pics, and to me they look exactly the same, but everyone is saying, " You look great!"

When what needs to be said is "You look the same, you are not ready for AS, and you either need to work harder, or just come to the reality that you have lousy genetics."
Just needed to vent. People on this board are very touchy. If someone posts pics, tell em like it is.

[nuke]

Pete- Agreed.

I am not saying that Seth is trying to start a fight. I just think SOME of us need positive feedback..

I am one for sure...( LOL !)

Seth- PM me bro.

[setsthesun]

well, i think i have just been flamed...

some of you must not have read what i wrote, because i definetly didn;t write that i want to flame. I DON"T WANT TO FLAME, and in no way is this topic about me wanting to FLAME. It's about a lot of other things and i suggest to those that understood otherwise to read it again.


I'll tell you one thing.I posed some pics at anabolex when i was a lot fatter and very bloated. I was also smaller in many areas than i am now. I got replies from people telling me that i am fat, that i am bloated, that i'll never compete succesfully. A month and a half later i posted another set of pics of myself. I quote "your progress is astounding, you're gonna go places". In no way did the fact that they flamed me make me quit bodybuilding or anything. I simply had one more thing to prove, and the fact that the same people that had flamed me were now "astounded" made me feel great. Now i posted other pics here and you told me things like "you have mr O genetic material" or "you're the most freakist teen i've seen" which are of course exagerated. But whenever i receive a compliment i remeber those people flaming me and feel even better. I'm not saying flaming is good (read the first paraghaph of this post) but i;m saying for me it had a good side lol.

[setsthesun]

palme....i think i look a lot better than that guy...if i recall well he was small and fat. I might not recall well. Is he the one who was happy about dropping 3% bodyfat in 2 months with juice and gh?

[palme]

Originally posted by setsthesun
palme....i think i look a lot better than that guy...if i recall well he was small and fat. I might not recall well. Is he the one who was happy about dropping 3% bodyfat in 2 months with juice and gh?

You do bro, alot better!

He should have stayed away from juice until he learned to lift and diet was good.

[rick1979]

I AGREE ,SETETHESUN,but one reason you see the posts that say great base to a huge fat ass with no muscle is because all the posts telling them how bad they really look and that they dont have an ounce of muscle are all removed by mods.constructive critisism is a great thing,theres no need to give these fat ass's an ego boost just tell them like it is, it will motivate them ,but instead everyone says yeah good work ,screw that.If a fat ass posts his pic tell him what you think,but i'm sure your post will be deleted like plenty of mine have ,and probably this one also.....but at least i'm not a fat ass eith low self asteam looking for validation,because they know they are only going to get praise in here.

[nuke]

Rick1979....
You are entitled to your opinion bro..

AND I really hope that your post is NOT deleted.... I believe everyone on the boards need to read what other people feel.

I dont beleive in censoship unless its bigoted or just plain out of place..

Glad youre not a fat ass Rick1979 !!

[Pheedno]

Originally posted by rick1979
I AGREE ,SETETHESUN,but one reason you see the posts that say great base to a huge fat ass with no muscle is because all the posts telling them how bad they really look and that they dont have an ounce of muscle are all removed by mods.constructive critisism is a great thing,theres no need to give these fat ass's an ego boost just tell them like it is, it will motivate them ,but instead everyone says yeah good work ,screw that.If a fat ass posts his pic tell him what you think,but i'm sure your post will be deleted like plenty of mine have ,and probably this one also.....but at least i'm not a fat ass eith low self asteam looking for validation,because they know they are only going to get praise in here.

Some people practice self control and maturity on a regular basis.
We at AR(the regular members) think of this board as a family in it self. We don't talk shit to our fellow friends, it's that plain and simple. Constructive criticism and ignorant degrading insults do not have a fine line between them. It's pretty easy to tell the difference and easier to decide which one your spitting out of your mouth(or typing).
I feel sorry for you because your degraded dignity and hollowed integrity put you at a disadvantage but hey...at least your not a fat ass right

[rick1979]

Originally posted by Pheedno



Some people practice self control and maturity on a regular basis.
We at AR(the regular members) think of this board as a family in it self. We don't talk shit to our fellow friends, it's that plain and simple. Constructive criticism and ignorant degrading insults do not have a fine line between them. It's pretty easy to tell the difference and easier to decide which one your spitting out of your mouth(or typing).
I feel sorry for you because your degraded dignity and hollowed integrity put you at a disadvantage but hey...at least your not a fat ass right

i'm wondering somewhere in your endless rambleing,do you have a point????

[iron4life79]

im with pete on this........

i dont think seth was trying to be malicious towards anyone at all........and for me, the bottom line is this:

if you dont want the criticism, then dont post the pics. while there are some on this board who will say anything to just to make the guy who posted the pics feel better, i think they are in the minority on this board.

most of the bro's on this board have and will tell it like it is. not only that, but they will offer suggestions on how to remedy the problem as well.(i dont consider constructive criticism as flaming). if you dont want to hear the bad news though........dont be so quick to pop those pics up there.

to the brother who said the mods delete all the negative posts:
this is total bullshit.(at least as far as myself deleting posts). unless a rule is broken, all posts stand as written, regardless of who posted them. for that matter, i dont know of one mod who would intentionally do this sort of thing.

peace bb79

[Pete235]

Originally posted by rick1979
If a fat ass posts his pic tell him what you think,but i'm sure your post will be deleted like plenty of mine have ....but at least i'm not a fat ass eith low self asteam looking for validation,because they know they are only going to get praise in here.

You make two points that I want to address. The only posts of yours that have been deleted are the ones that are either a) blatently disrespectful or b) in violation of board rules. Some of your insensitive smart ass comments are even still on the board, if you would like I can show you where. The second point is typical of somebody like you, talking trash without backing it up. I'll tell you what, post your pics and let us be the judge. Here is the point, if somebody posts their pics at another board and get flamed to hell...that should have been expected. Because most posters at other boards are like you, they're in their early twenties, they think they know a thing or two, they like to show off and make cocky statements but they never EVER post pics of themselves. Then they hide behind the old "It's the internet, posts pics and get what's coming to you" rhetoric. Well you should know by know that shit like that doesn't fly around here. We have made a concious decision to do it differently. People can posts pics no matter what condition they are in and as long as they are doing things to improve, we will always offer encouragement and advice. Nobody LIES, if a person is overweight they either already know that or are advised to change their diet. It's really pretty simple pal, this is the way things are run around here. If you don't like it there are other boards out there. That's not a threat, that's not meant to be malicious, it's simply a fact. I truly cannot comprehend why somebody would keep coming to a board they do not like.

[broncojosh]

if someone is overweight, THEY KNOW IT! If you do feel the need to post about a pic, do it respectfully. God forbid that you have to actually articulate what you want to say into a non-malicious comment. Ol' Pete has done that on numerous occasions. And rick1979, why the fuck does every damn thread have to turn into pouting...boo mother fucking hoo. Like Pete said, if you hate it here, enjoy ef or anabolex. And setsthesun, seems like you are a bright kid, and I see your viewpoint, just be aware of the rules, and you'll do just fine here.

[the original jason]

If a fat ass posts his pic tell him what you think,but i'm sure your post will be deleted like plenty of mine have ....but at least i'm not a fat ass eith low self asteam looking for validation,because they know they are only going to get praise in here.

have some respect, a fat as is still a person, you think cos u r not of higher body fat that you are better than other people who are of high body fat??

The other thing is I would say that people who are putting down others are usually the ones who need to look at themselves.

You are welcome to point out to people in a respectfull way, I think you should lower your body fat, heres a good plan for you, no way are you gonna call someone a fat ass disrespectfully and remain here !

peace

[superbeast]

I can understand where setsthesun is coming from. I get tired of seeing asskissing all the time too. I've been here a long time and rarely ever see any constructive criticism. I've posted pictures and begged for people to point out shortcomings and I never get any, only praise. That tells me one of three things, either I am perfect, everybody is a lier, or nobody has enough knowledge to see imperfections in somebody's physique. I don't think he is asking for flaming to be allowed, but for honesty. I rarely post on anybody's pictures anymore, simply because i feel bad telling them anything bad after everybody else has praised them. Honesty is not flaming, as long as it is done tastefully.

SB

[rick1979]

Originally posted by superbeast
I can understand where setsthesun is coming from. I get tired of seeing asskissing all the time too. I've been here a long time and rarely ever see any constructive criticism. I've posted pictures and begged for people to point out shortcomings and I never get any, only praise. That tells me one of three things, either I am perfect, everybody is a lier, or nobody has enough knowledge to see imperfections in somebody's physique. I don't think he is asking for flaming to be allowed, but for honesty. I rarely post on anybody's pictures anymore, simply because i feel bad telling them anything bad after everybody else has praised them. Honesty is not flaming, as long as it is done tastefully.

SB

Thats the point i was making,maybe i used some harsh words,i realize there are super sensistive people on this board, and for the most part i do like this board,but i think that some mods like throwing there weight around in here,and that they are always right no matter what. since your begging for a pic of me pete i'll post one just for you.very soon btw...i'm 6'5 235lbs. 7%

[OGPackin]

rick1979 and setsthesun ur only talking shit because ur not one of those 'fat asses". What are u both 12 or something? Have some respect will ya! No ones saying u cant make ur point, but there are ways of doing it like an adult. Not like little children calling people names! Someone who is over weight knows it like broncojosh said. They dont need some snot nose punk telling them so! And IMO if they are doing what it takes to better them selves, well then they have my respect and im not going to flame them for that! A complement, a good word of encouragement goes a long way. Just think if the shoe was on the other foot. U wouldnt want someone calling u a 'fat ass" wouldya?!?

OG

[rick1979]

so, you just called me a child ,and a snot nosed punk,ogpunk..and your telling me to have respect..can you say hypocrit!!

[RON]

This thread is going down hill fast. If you guys wanna flame each other do it by PM or on another board. This board is so great because we have rules like NO flames. If you guys like to flame go to another board. BTW there is a big difference between critique and flame.

setsthesun you seem to be civil and you make a valid point. I have no problem with anything you have said. IMO critique is fine as long as its not a flame. Anyone who is here can tell the difference. So flame and you will be dealt with. All I can say is if you have to put others down to make your pathetic selves feel good leave because thats not what we are all about.

I don't care how big or cut you are. If you think thats all that matters then I feel sorry for you. People shouldn't be judged by appearance alone and when some of you need to grow up you will realize that. Im 255 and 15%bf. and yes 15% is kinda high and Im not gonna post my pic till I get under 10. When I see people who are 150 or 165 I don't call them names cause I'm bigger than them. I used to be about 25% bf so I sure don't make fun of fatter people (specially since I'm still a lard ass myself). There is so much more to a person than 21" guns.

[OGPackin]

So thats all u got out of what i said huh? Awww are ur feelings hurt now? When u grow up maybe u'll understand?

OG

[Aragorn]

Originally posted by RON
This thread is going down hill fast. If you guys wanna flame each other do it by PM or on another board. This board is so great because we have rules like NO flames. If you guys like to flame go to another board. BTW there is a big difference between critique and flame.

setsthesun you seem to be civil and you make a valid point. I have no problem with anything you have said. IMO critique is fine as long as its not a flame. Anyone who is here can tell the difference. So flame and you will be dealt with. All I can say is if you have to put others down to make your pathetic selves feel good leave because thats not what we are all about.

I don't care how big or cut you are. If you think thats all that matters then I feel sorry for you. People shouldn't be judged by appearance alone and when some of you need to grow up you will realize that. Im 255 and 15%bf. and yes 15% is kinda high and Im not gonna post my pic till I get under 10. When I see people who are 150 or 165 I don't call them names cause I'm bigger than them. I used to be about 25% bf so I sure don't make fun of fatter people (specially since I'm still a lard ass myself). There is so much more to a person than 21" guns.

Well put RON

Aragorn

[Jdawg50]

Rick, first of all, you need to learn what's known as tact. Calling people on this board a fat ass is just plain wrong. I started when I came to this board at around 22-23% BF, and I have come down to 17-18%BF. Mostly from diet and exercise. I have a long way to go, but I have a lot of the guys on the board to thank for the encouragement. Do yourself a favor and think a little before you post a comment like that. It does nothing good for any of us, and usually pisses people off.

[showtime]

personally if i were to post my pics, i would want somebody to tell me the truth and not bs around.........i completely understand that there is a difference between critique and flame, and i do not agree with flaming, but i def. would want somebody to tell me what they think i could do to lower my bf% etc.........just my .02