its takes a man to admit this....

[JuliusPleaser]

Edited, for a number of reasons...

ive done long cycles before, consisting of cyp, eq and tren ...ive taken dbols, ive done prop and winny/tren...i taken a bunch of shit like igf1 and i never saw shit..ive taken peptide like hgh frag ad didn' see shit...ive done t3/ and clen in spray form and wasn't impressed...

the best ive ever looked was last summer....i did winny 50mg ed , tren, and cyp....my diet was on, and i look cut..prob 11-12% bf...

my pct consisted of hcg 500ius twice a week, and *******, and also primal male...after my cycle, not during, which after reading was a mistake...

im sick of ****ing up..and i always learn when its too late and there is so much contradicting resources on here...pct during or after? front load or not?...do this not that...take this not that...its very confusing and i also and im very stubborn and think i can get away with shit, like replacing real AI's and Serms with OTC supplements like myo....obviously my pct was an experiment, i know im supposed to do nolv and clomid and hcg, but ive done that before, didn't see much either...probably did it wrong...anyway, i just want to do everything right this time...

i want to gain lean muscle and keep it!...i want to order test e, deca , masteron , prop, and im gonna make my own tren...im gonna have 40ml of each drug...

my boy and i want to take the same cycle, and we want to bulk for 12 weeks, then switch to a new cutting cycle by march to lean out...

im thinking test e deca for 12 weeks.... 500mg wk test and 600mg wk deca...then followed by 12 wks of test prop and masteron 100mg eod , tren 100mg eod for the first 6 weeks, then switch 50mg to winny ed the last 6 wks...


i know its two 12 week cycles in a row but i know plenty of bbers that stay on all year and just switch the compounds...what do u think i should do or what cycle would u come up with using the compounds i just listed?...include any advice or cycle splits u think are better...im just tired of making up my own shit and ****ing myself up some how...i dont want to research for myself, i want to be told exactly what do to...please help me if u can...thanks for ur time and expertice...

i know how to diet and i know everything else, i just want to take the thinking out of it and just DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

[DSM4Life]

You wont keep your gains from AAS unless you continue to cycle throughout your life. This has been discussed 10000 times.

[johnnybigguns]

Your gunna have to research bro and learn alot. We all had too. i got 100s of hours reading in this forum.

[JuliusPleaser]

so ur saying that u can NEVER stop taking steroids if u take one cycle...i dont agree on that

[JuliusPleaser]

well ive been doing that lol....and now its like i have too many options...i guess i just need to try all of them to see what works for me???

[AcePowerZ]

I think he said that you will lose your gains. Butt who? nose V EyE Kant real E read EyE just callz it howz I C's it...

[almostgone]

How old is your "boy" or is it a lifting bud ?

AG

[almostgone]

It's imperative that you research for yourself. We all had to start somewhere.

Good luck,
AG

[JuliusPleaser]

im 24 and he is 22

im 5'11 205, hes about 5'7 175...im an ecto mesomorph, hes is more of a pure mesomorph...

we've both down our share of cycles...

[jimmyinkedup]

patience bro ..one cycle at a time.... one goal at a time (per cycle) ...its a marathon not a sprint .....back to back 12 week cycles imo isnt the answer and you will find gains cease after too long on aas .....you will be paying big $ to maintain not gain. Back to basics and no more well planned (or not so well planned) shortcuts..

[JuliusPleaser]

well i know, ive done all the research ive been doing for a while...i just want someone to tell me what to do...like hiring my own steroid coach lol

[boss4romdabay]

You wont keep your gains from AAS unless you continue to cycle throughout your life. This has been discussed 10000 times.

really?

[Darksyde]

24 and 22 and having already done a lot of cycles? when did you start and at what weight?

[almostgone]

That, my friend, is risky business! So you trust a random individual's input over your own research. What a shame.
Try the educational threads. Cycles for the newbie by Mudman.

Good luck,
AG

well i know, ive done all the research ive been doing for a while...i just want someone to tell me what to do...like hiring my own steroid coach lol

[JuliusPleaser]

well i started taking gear in highschool... i was an idiot then, but u know how that is...ive probably done around 5-6 cycles in my life

no, i usually do my own research and advice but i rather ask and expert now lol

[JuliusPleaser]

really its just asking more experienced people as to what they found to be effective rather than continuing to do it my way, which seems to work ok, but not best

[almostgone]

I'd start here.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=120894

AG

[JuliusPleaser]

thanks ag, i wouldn't consider myself a newbie however..ive done mulitple drugs at a time...my main quesitons involve can i do two 12 wk cycles back to back or should i basically cycle off then cut...like i said, some people never come off and seem to look fine...i have always been an advocate of cycling off...but ive read alot of info lately that says some people just brigde or stay on all year

ive juiced since i was 18, ive prob done 5-6 cycles in my life since then...

ive never done a 6 week cycle, which caught my attention...things like this are things that i ask questions about

[hankdiesel]

It takes a man to admit this..........admit what?

[JuliusPleaser]

its just a catchy post topic lol

[Big]

I don't mean to be offensive, but the questions you have asked here indicate you have the knowledge base of a noobie. I mean you actually ask "pct during or after?" You need to start at the beginning and learn to do this properly.

[Big]

and no, you should not run 2 12 week cycles back to back.

[BG]

well i started taking gear in highschool... i was an idiot then, but u know how that is...ive probably done around 5-6 cycles in my life

And you only weigh 205?? You need to research diet and training and recovery methods before worry about your 7th cycle.

[BG]

It takes a KID to admit this..........admit what?

[jimmyinkedup]

Ive read a few posts by you and honestly im leaning twords thinking you are full of shit ...7 cycles otc supp and roids together ...no pcts ...but you supoposedly reasearch....24 yrs old.....i dunno dude....

[JuliusPleaser]

I don't mean to be offensive, but the questions you have asked here indicate you have the knowlege base of a noobie. I mean you actually ask "pct during or after?" You need to start at the beginning and learn to do this properly.

well thats what im saying...ive always read all the "proven" real ways to do things, but then ive done more research that goes AGAINST everything i have learned... ive met a real bodydbuilder who only take 3 months off a YEAR...that would go against everything ive learned about pct and cycling...also ive seen thread that pct is bs, which i dont agree fully but some arguements make sense...

ive also seen people post about 6 wk cycles and even 30 wk cycles from books like "building the perfect beast"...some front load, others don't...i know the "basics" of taking steroids , and ive followed them before...i have to admit, i never took pct seriously, and im sure thats where most of the flaws fall into place, but i also don't want to take steroids for longs periods of time, which attract me to 6 wk cycles, but then i read that its pointless to take them...regardless, i know my knowledge, all im saying is that ive read so much contradicting things that i just want someone to tell me what to do!!!...ive done 10 -12 week cycles... ive done boosters 1-4 dbol , 1-12 cyp and deca ...ive done the basics...ive done stacks like prop, hgh, winny, and tren ...

im not inexperienced at all, i have good form when i work out, my diet is great...im not a noobie by any means...im just trying to find out what the truth is from all this info....

[Big]

I guess my first piece of advice is learn to consider the source of the information you read. I've been here a long time, and I don't remember ever seeing a thread by anyone who knows what they are talking about that says pct is bs. I can't imagine someone posting that pct is bs without a couple dozen of us chiming in as to how clueless the poster is.

[JuliusPleaser]

well i agree...

heres where i read this...
Edited

[BG]

I guess my first piece of advice is learn to consider the source of the information you read. I've been here a long time, and I don't remember ever seeing a thread by anyone who knows what they are talking about that says pct is bs. I can't imagine someone posting that pct is bs without a couple dozen of us chiming in as to how clueless the poster is.

I was thinking along the same lines. Its a shame someone has been around so long , absorbed no knowledge.

[Big]

Well you can't post links to other sites, but I meant here. You can find bs posted all over the internet, find me a thread here where we say pct is bs.

[JuliusPleaser]

good point lol...maybe this site is the best place to learn...

well BIG, since i got ur attention...what do u think i should do in terms of my cycle.. following the "normal" protocol im thinking something like this...

Dbol wk1 20mg wk2 30mg wk3 40mg wk4 30
Test E 1-12 500mg wk 2 diff shots...(possibly front load first two weeks 1000mg??)
Deca 1-12 600mg wk 2 diff shots...(possibly front load first two weekss 1200mg??)
HCG 500 ius every 5 days
arimidex .25 ed



6-8 week off

1-12 prop 100mg eod
1-12 masteron 100mg eod
1-6 tren 100 mg eod
6-12 winny 50mg ed

what am i missing or would u add anything to them other than the obviously pct

[Big]

for starters, if you run a 12 week cycle, wait 2 weeks then take a 4 week pct, you would then wait 18 weeks off after pct before starting another cycle, although getting bloodwork around 15 weeks after will show how close you are to ready.
if running test e and deca , I would stop the deca 2 weeks before I stopped the test.
I would run dbol at a steady dosage.
I only use hgc if I have atrophy.
If I need an ai I use arimidex at .25eod for starting dosage.
I shoot prop, mast, and tren (I assume A) ed, not eod.

[Phate]

good point lol...maybe this site is the best place to learn...

well BIG, since i got ur attention...what do u think i should do in terms of my cycle.. following the "normal" protocol im thinking something like this...

Dbol wk1 20mg wk2 30mg wk3 40mg wk4 30
Test E 1-12 500mg wk 2 diff shots...(possibly front load first two weeks 1000mg??)
Deca 1-12 600mg wk 2 diff shots...(possibly front load first two weekss 1200mg??)
HCG 500 ius every 5 days
arimidex .25 ed



6-8 week off

1-12 prop 100mg eod
1-12 masteron 100mg eod
1-6 tren 100 mg eod
6-12 winny 50mg ed

what am i missing or would u add anything to them other than the obviously pct

where to start, first off, you want to run two cycles basically back to back, not a good idea, you should AT LEAST take off 18-20 weeks minimum before starting the prop cycle

second, deca should be stopped 2 weeks before the test

third, there is no reason to taper the dbol, just make sure you are taking it 3-4x a day

fourth, you don't need to run HCG every 5 days thoroughout your cycle

i'm not even gonna start on your second proposed cycle, YOU NEED TO RESEARCH

[hankdiesel]

time on + pct = time off That is basic and you can start there. Take the pct more seriously because you are losing most of your gains after cycle. I know guys at the gym who do this. They take all kind of stuff, basically shotgunning and then have a very weak or no pct at all. They lose almost all their gains and then they start all over.

[Rugger02]

I'm still in the process of learning all I can about AAS. I've actually been researching and trying to learn for over a year now and still don't feel I'm quite ready to take the plunge... Even for a simple "Newbie" Test E cycle.

And I can totally understand how you're getting a little bogged down with the "conflicting advice"
The reason for this is that there is no right and wrong 'set in stone' way to do a cycle. There are different compounds that essentially do the same things. Some people perfer one and others perfer something else. You'll find both viewpoints on this site.

The trick is to learn what each compound does, and why it's necessary to add to your cycle, or if there's something else you're taking that makes it unnecessary. Then you just need to have all your bases covered for what you need during your cycle and for your PCT and go for it.

Study the stickys in the Q&A and Educational Forums. Just because you've done your share of cycles doesn't mean you're not a newb. And I don't even mean that in a derogatory way. You just don't yet have the knowledge that you should.

The one thing that I do know and feel comfortable giving advise on is Diet. Even if you think you're all set why don't you post it up in the diet forum and we'll take a look. Most people don't realize how huge it is and what a difference it can make.

Best of luck to you!

[Phate]

The one thing that I do know and feel comfortable giving advise on is Diet. Even if you think you're all set why don't you post it up in the diet forum and we'll take a look. Most people don't realize how huge it is and what a difference it can make.
Best of luck to you!

exactly what i was about to ask, i'd like to see the diet as well, though Rugger02 gets the honors of first critique, you're in good hands with his advice JuliusPleaser

[T_Own]

exactly what i was about to ask, i'd like to see the diet as well, though Rugger02 gets the honors of first critique, you're in good hands with his advice JuliusPleaser

i was waiting for that. i'm interested in seeing the diet too. everyone thinks they have it down perfectly and steroids are the last piece of the puzzle.

you really need to read more. i skipped most of the posts in the middle because they are pretty ridiculous. pct during a cycle??? that kills the P of Pct. POST cycle. meaning after, it really shouldn't be a question even.

[JuliusPleaser]

well, first off, im not a bullshitter ...i am 24, and ive done about 5-7 cycles...i dont look like ive done 5-7 SOLID perfect cycles...due to the fact i spent 4 years in the marine corps 3 months in boot camp, being 205 and coming out 167 and then going to iraq only to 8 months later only to loose muscle my i gained after bootcamp in my first tour overseas...i dont know why u think i would lie about taking 5-7 cycles...my first experience with steroids was in highschool...i took russian dbol and deca ...then i retardedly took anadrol with deca and sust!!!...no pct either!!!!..yes i am retarded!!!...in the marines back on base i did a few cycles ...i also starting going bald and i got gyno, which i got removed for free from the marines ...i got gyno because i was taking gear and propecia at the same time...i cant remember all my cycles, but now i also got a hair transplant twice, which i would have had to do anyway and now i can never lose my hair again ...so pretty much i am juice proof in terms of the most feared sides (gyno and balding) ...just so u know, i was genetically prone to going bald anyway, i started losing my hair in highschool, but im sure the steroids sped it up.....as u can see, i have no shame in admitting any of mistakes, which many would sit here and never admit...

...im am ADMITTING that i have been a lazy idiot in terms of pct and also how ive taken cycles before...but i have also not been an idiot and sucessfully taken cycles before, the last one i took in the summer of 2007 i looked great...it was cyp, tren , winny, hgh...my pct however was not what u would all agreed on...i took myo and hcg ...i was totally fine and my blood levels were normal, but i paid the price later with a limp dick but no loss in muscle...seriously...for some reason my sex drive was the only problem, it made no sense...

so i just want to clear that im not some liar , and i have no problem admitting or taking any constructive criticism... i dont know steroids in and out like a chemist...i usually just follow the basics...at first it was my pct that was off, cause i didn't take it seriously, and then i figured out it was my diet...

this was my diet when i was in my best shape...

meal one: 4 eggs, ham, and fat free cheese omlete with white rice...

meal two: protein shake, 42gs (optimum nutrition )

meal three: oatmeal and 16oz of meat

creatine 5g pwo

pwo shake: 42g, juice and 5g creatine

meal 5: chicken salad and sweet potatoe

meal 6: turkey chili (black beans ground turkey salsa) wheat bread

meal 7: 42g protein shake no carbs

that was basically my diet, regardless if i bulking or not, but it helped alot during the best shape of my life

i drank ONLY water or diet sodas occasionally...despite the fact im a club promoter in nyc, i drank ZERO alcohol and i dont care to anyway...

my cycle then was:

1-12 cyp @ 500mg a week
1-6 tren (homebrew) 100mg eod
6-12 winny tabs 50 ed
hgh blue tops, 2ius eod ( many would argue this method, just another example of conflicting data)

pct...well, thats where you could say i messed up...before my cycle was over, i started taking myo and when that ran out, i got primal male...helped with the sex drive, my Cum was massive as well...then two weeks later jumped on HCG...10000 ius, did 500ius twice a week and tapers down to 500iu a week

so just to clear the confusion..i am admitting that i never really took pct seriously, i know people who dont even do it, and i am admiting that its not the wisest choice...however as u can see, im not a noob, im just a stubborn bastard...and i am also looking for more effecient ways to do things, that is where the confusion is...like i stated before, maybe may disagree taking hgh EOD, or others disagree on frontloading, ect...soo much info going around these boards...

some say 6wk cycles are badm others swear they are awesome...i read one guy took a 30 day cycle that he copied from the book "building the perfect beast" which was 1gram of test one week, the next week 1gram of deca, then off 1 week then switched to prop for 1g a week and then off, then repeat, and he said he read this from a book, and gained just as much as if he was on 1g of test 400mg of deca for weeks...

im just running my mind on here...ive done plenty of research to the point that im like WTF is the right thing to do??? lol


i hope this cleared things up...its obvious i need to take my pct more seriously and i will do so this time around, im just asking you guys to direct me to the most efficent way to take this planned cycle, so i can get the max benefits of my hard work, including a perfect pct... some say take HCG during ur cycle NOT after...theres just too much conflicting data, im tired of researching LOL

[Big]

... some say take HCG during ur cycle NOT after...theres just too much conflicting data, im tired of researching LOL

If you're tired of researching, you should just stop now and not cycle. I've been into this for many years and I still research more than I post. In any event, some of what you are viewing as conflicting data are just opinions on what someone feels works best for them. Everyone is different, so the odds of finding a board that has almost 100,000 members yet everyone agrees is nonexistent. I only use HCG at the first sign of testicular atrophy, which for me happens while on a very suppressive cycle with relatively high doses of a 19nor. It can be used in a somewhat preventative method at the first signs, or it can be used during pct where it no longer is preventative but rather a cure. Some people take headache meds when they feel a headache coming on, some wait till it's a full headache before they take meds. Same principal.

[JuliusPleaser]

where to start, first off, you want to run two cycles basically back to back, not a good idea, you should AT LEAST take off 18-20 weeks minimum before starting the prop cycle

second, deca should be stopped 2 weeks before the test

third, there is no reason to taper the dbol , just make sure you are taking it 3-4x a day

fourth, you don't need to run HCG every 5 days thoroughout your cycle

i'm not even gonna start on your second proposed cycle, YOU NEED TO RESEARCH

whats wrong with my second proposed cycle?