Cycling T3 & Clen / do not want anabolic roids.

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:04 PM

so. i bought T3 and Clen stack, but i read alot about them before i buy them. and well i am 19. so i was wondering, since T3 can eat away alot muscles. i have a pretty nice musclar struture, but i just have like 15lbs of fat covering (dropped like 50lbs already), which i really need to lose. my body is kinda mean, it gets adapted fast. and with those last lbs, i been reachin plateaus with every kind of diet or workout. i am even on double cardio daily. so i wanted to go on T3 and Clen, But with T3, with no anabolic steroid , i will probably lose alot muscle, which i really worked hard to gain at the gym. is there any other option other than anabolic roids to use to preserve the muscle? supplements , or mildy steroids that wont affect my testesterone levels after i stop the cycle or anything like that??

i am going on trip in 3 weeks, so i want to be as ripped as possible.halp bliz.

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 02:09 PM

post a days diet and let us critique it.

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:15 PM

my calorie intake is about 1800 calorie per day. atm i am trying to get adapted to ketogenic. still trying to fix the %s , fat kinda low, but workin on it.
before i was on 40/40/20 reached plateau.

6th Jan

10:30 Am
3 Boiled Eggs + 25 gram butter
( Cal : 341 Protein : 19 Fat : 27 Carbs : 2 )

1:00 Pm
3 Beef Burgers + 1 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 450 Protein : 26.4 Carbs : 3.3 Fat : 36.5 )

4:00 Pm
1/2 Tuna + 2 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 434 Protein : 21 Fat : 29 )

7:00 Pm
200 gm chicken + 1bsp butter.
( Cal : 501 Protein : 59 Fat : 26 )

10:00 Pm
2 Scoops Whey protein.
(Cal : 116 Protein : 22 Fat : 1.5 Carbs : 3.5 )

Total Calories : 1842
Total Protein = 147.4 = 589.6 Calorie = 32%
Total Fat = 120 = 1080 Calorie = 58.6 %
Carbs = 8.8 = 35.2 Calorie = 1.91 %

something like this.

anyway, its not the diet or the workout, am pretty sure.

**Phate** · 01-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

my calorie intake is about 1800 calorie per day. atm i am trying to get adapted to ketogenic. still trying to fix the %s , fat kinda low, but workin on it.
before i was on 40/40/20 reached plateau.

6th Jan

10:30 Am
3 Boiled Eggs + 25 gram butter
( Cal : 341 Protein : 19 Fat : 27 Carbs : 2 )

1:00 Pm
3 Beef Burgers + 1 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 450 Protein : 26.4 Carbs : 3.3 Fat : 36.5 )

4:00 Pm
1/2 Tuna + 2 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 434 Protein : 21 Fat : 29 )

7:00 Pm
200 gm chicken + 1bsp butter.
( Cal : 501 Protein : 59 Fat : 26 )

10:00 Pm
2 Scoops Whey protein.
(Cal : 116 Protein : 22 Fat : 1.5 Carbs : 3.5 )

Total Calories : 1842
Total Protein = 147.4 = 589.6 Calorie = 32%
Total Fat = 120 = 1080 Calorie = 58.6 %
Carbs = 8.8 = 35.2 Calorie = 1.91 %

something like this.

anyway, its not the diet or the workout, am pretty sure.

yeah, its the diet, what are your stats

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:22 PM

remember , i lost 50 lbs before,i know what a diet is. i am just working on getting a good ketogenic diet. which is based on 65% fat , 30% protein and 5% carbs.

i am 165 lbs, and 5'9.

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the back up...Phate!!!

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 02:24 PM

I congrats you on the weight loss.....I understand the frustration.

At 5.9 and 165lbs it would have to be in your diet if you say you have 15lbs of fat to lose.

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:25 PM

i already bought the T3. i am wanting to use it. i would be gratefull if u help me with this point.

**chuckt12345** · 01-06-2009, 02:27 PM

apparently its a good diet for losing weight if hes dropped 50 pounds. But if you dont wanna lose muscle on the clen cycle your prb gonna have to adjust the diet

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:32 PM

i did not drop 50 pounds on ketogenic, i just switched to keto like couple of days ago cauze i totally plateaued with the 40/40/20 protein/carb/fat diet. and for clen its okay. i know i will have to raise my protein intake. but problem is T3. i do not want to lose muscle, i would buy anything that wont effect my natural hormones release forever, like any supplement or mild roid, which will have no effect after i stop using, if something like that exist anyway lol, anything to preserve muscle.

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 02:44 PM

I would give the keto a chance to start working. I most cases the muscle loss happened when the bf% was real low.

Do a search on T3 or clen /t3 cycle and see what you get.

**Phate** · 01-06-2009, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

remember , i lost 50 lbs before,i know what a diet is. i am just working on getting a good ketogenic diet. which is based on 65% fat , 30% protein and 5% carbs.

i am 165 lbs, and 5'9.

heres the deal, the reason you lost 50lb is because you forced you body to run on a very low amount of calories, but doing so for an extended period of time will cause your body to go into starvation mode, which it's in now i'd bet, and it will hold onto fat like it's life depended on it(because it's programmed to do this to save it's life in case of a famine)

do you know your daily caloric requirement? if not i'll show you how to get it

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 02:53 PM

lol yea i know. 66 + (13.7 X wt in kg) + (5 X ht in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

i never feel hungry cauze i eat meal of small portions every 2.5~3 hours.
Plus when u are in starvation mode, u lose muscle. but ill say my muscles are kinda growing and my lifting volumes is getting better. only those stubborn fat are not going away.
@10nispro , i read everything i could get my eyes on about those 2 before buying them. the anabolic steroids are the only problem. i am not gonna take something that will hinder my hormonal production forever. i would rather use T3 and lose muscle with it as well. but if there is any other way, i am welling to do.

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 02:59 PM

Patience is the key if you have come this far. Stay away from AAS until you are 22, if you decide to go that way.

Taking t3 when you don't need can also mess with your endocrine system as well. Search for scibble and t3. Scibble is a doc and knows his sh**. I will try to find the information. Also, when is the last time you changed your cardio?

**MMArmour** · 01-06-2009, 03:00 PM

AAS if used in reasonable amounts should by no means at all hinder your endogenous hormones for life.

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 03:03 PM

mm i dont really change it. i do 45 minutes when i wake up on empty stomache. and then 45~60minutes after gymw orkout and after takin my whey/bcaa.
morning = runnin/joggin
gym = bicycling

**Phate** · 01-06-2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

lol yea i know. 66 + (13.7 X wt in kg) + (5 X ht in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

i.

actually that's just your BMR, you have to multiply that by one of these to get your daily caloric requirement

If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

**10nispro** · 01-06-2009, 03:05 PM

You need to change it. It's just like your workouts. Your body stops changing because it adapts to it. You may even be overtraining.

**clumsy** · 01-06-2009, 03:16 PM

well i was on 2500 before and gradually down to 1800 due to plateauing.. x.x and i usually do multiply factor x 1.5

so well, no solutions lol? should i throw the t3 out from the window ? psst.

**Phate** · 01-06-2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

well i was on 2500 before and gradually down to 1800 due to plateauing.. x.x and i usually do multiply factor x 1.5

so well, no solutions lol? should i throw the t3 out from the window ? psst.

try running the clen first, using basic clen protocol, and see how that works for 6-8 weeks with some ketotifen or diphenhydramine

**FinaGuy** · 01-06-2009, 05:22 PM

Just to let you know, Clen is an anti-catabloic agent... you wont eat musle if its stacked with T3 considering it will keep your body out of a catabolic state... dont think it will help much on the off days of clen when the T3 is still used.

**Phate** · 01-06-2009, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by FinaGuy

Just to let you know, Clen is an anti-catabloic agent... you wont eat musle if its stacked with T3 considering it will keep your body out of a catabolic state... dont think it will help much on the off days of clen when the T3 is still used.

not true at all, clen has never been proven to be anti-catabolic in humans and in the studies that used rats and horses the doses were waayyyyy higher than a human could take

stacking clen with t3 will definitely eat muscle if cardio is employed and diet is under maintainence as t3 doesn't distinguish between muscle and fat

**Bossman** · 01-06-2009, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

well i was on 2500 before and gradually down to 1800 due to plateauing.. x.x and i usually do multiply factor x 1.5

so well, no solutions lol? should i throw the t3 out from the window ? psst.

Yes!

You said you researched it before you bought it? IF so, you would have known it's muscle wasting without AAS. And you shouldn't be taking AAS. Im sure you will use T3 regardless of what people tell you because your bound and determined.

Get rid of it.

**Bossman** · 01-06-2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by FinaGuy

Just to let you know, Clen is an anti-catabloic agent... you wont eat musle if its stacked with T3 considering it will keep your body out of a catabolic state... dont think it will help much on the off days of clen when the T3 is still used.

Not True! Clen is mildly anabolic at best.

**big_k** · 01-06-2009, 08:41 PM

I have done the Keto diet pretty successfully cutting twice using it. And the first time I did it, I made the same mistake you are. Although even more so.

I ate the same amount of calories as you are, and I lost some decent amount of body fat, but also some mass and eventually it kind of stalled out.

If your workouts are intense, and 2x a day cardio? 1800 calories will not cut it.

My suggestion is ramp up the calories, Maybe back to 2500? Get that metabolism working again.

do 1 hour of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach.
Afternoon do another 45-1hr cardio.

I'm not sure if the diet you posted is intended to be Keto but it is not.

Need Fat, add some All Natural Almond Butter or PB.
"10:00 Pm
2 Scoops Whey protein.
(Cal : 116 Protein : 22 Fat : 1.5 Carbs : 3.5 )"

**clumsy** · 01-07-2009, 04:30 AM

i have a peanut butter jar, but i locked it away. cauze u know.. i cant be tricking myself. its hard to resist it and 1 tbsp wont cut it lol.

@cgb.. actually i put it away for now. i am gonna listen to Phate's advise. use clen only for now.

anyway, here is my today diet.

7th Jan.

12:00 Pm.
4 Hard Boiled eggs. + 2tbsp butter.
( Cal : 452 Protein : 19 Fat : 38 Carb : 2 )

2:00 Pm
3 Beef Burgers + 1 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 450 Protein : 26.4 Fat : 36.5 Carbs : 3.3 )

4:30 Pm
4 oz Luncheon + 1tbsp olive oil
( Cal : 407 Protein : 12 Fat : 38 Carbs : 6 )

6:30 Pm
2 Scoops whey protein
(Cal : 232 Protein : 44 Fat : 3 Carbs : 7 )
one scoop before workout, one after.

9:30 Pm
Tuna water packed + 2 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 434 Protein : 43 Fat : 29 )

Total Calories : 1975 Calories
Total Protein : 144.4 = 577.6 Calorie = 30%
Total Fat : 144.5 = 1300 Calorie = 65%
Total Carb : 19.3 = 77.2 = 4%

i am from sweeden,morning cardio is pretty hard those days :P but well i try to keep them up. but they arent full of intenisty anyway.

**Bossman** · 01-07-2009, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

i have a peanut butter jar, but i locked it away. cauze u know.. i cant be tricking myself. its hard to resist it and 1 tbsp wont cut it lol.

@cgb.. actually i put it away for now. i am gonna listen to Phate's advise. use clen only for now.

Thanks for letting me know. Phate has you covered.

**Phate** · 01-07-2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by clumsy

i have a peanut butter jar, but i locked it away. cauze u know.. i cant be tricking myself. its hard to resist it and 1 tbsp wont cut it lol.

@cgb.. actually i put it away for now. i am gonna listen to Phate's advise. use clen only for now.

anyway, here is my today diet.

7th Jan.

12:00 Pm.
4 Hard Boiled eggs. + 2tbsp butter.
( Cal : 452 Protein : 19 Fat : 38 Carb : 2 )
add 4 egg whites

2:00 Pm
3 Beef Burgers + 1 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 450 Protein : 26.4 Fat : 36.5 Carbs : 3.3 )
add some tuna/chicken something to bring protein up by around 15g
4:30 Pm
4 oz Luncheon + 1tbsp olive oil
( Cal : 407 Protein : 12 Fat : 38 Carbs : 6 )
again add something to get the protein up
6:30 Pm
2 Scoops whey protein
(Cal : 232 Protein : 44 Fat : 3 Carbs : 7 )
one scoop before workout, one after.

9:30 Pm
Tuna water packed + 2 tbsp olive oil.
( Cal : 434 Protein : 43 Fat : 29 )

Total Calories : 1975 Calories
Total Protein : 144.4 = 577.6 Calorie = 30%
Total Fat : 144.5 = 1300 Calorie = 65%
Total Carb : 19.3 = 77.2 = 4%

i am from sweeden,morning cardio is pretty hard those days :P but well i try to keep them up. but they arent full of intenisty anyway.

i think you should up your protein by at least 60-70g total if not more, it will actually help you by causing your body to digest the protein and the thermogenic effect therein will ramp up your metabolism