Help with gyno, already on letro....

[joescobra03]

im 5'6 199lbs 7-8%BF, 4th cycle

I have been on sust 250 550mgs/week shot every other day for the last 6 weeks, i was using arr.com's tomox (Tomoxifen citrate) since the start of the cycle. Start of week 6 i add tren hexahydrobenzylcarbonate at 300mg's a week shot every other day stoped taking the tomox and started using letro at 1ml a day. Over the last 2 weeks I have noticed my gyno progressing and not subsiding. Letro is the strongest Ai i can get on whats my next step here, im starting to get worried. Any help would be great and thanks.

[redz]

The tren could be causing prolactin problems caber or bromo would help. Some people are very gyno prone, Letro squashed the earliest signs of gyno for me and I just kept running it until pct. I have heard Letro can take a while to pool in the blood though.

[joescobra03]

The tren could be causing prolactin problems caber or bromo would help. Some people are very gyno prone, Letro squashed the earliest signs of gyno for me and I just kept running it until pct. I have heard Letro can take a while to pool in the blood though.

well ive been running letro for the last 10 days or so could it just be that it hasn't stablized in my blood yet? ya i have to hook ups for caber or bromo unless arr.com has it so letro might just be the best i can get. thanks for the info.

[jojo2002]

If your gyno is progressing you should stop running your cycle if you havne't already.. GL if doesn't get anybetter surgery is your only option imo..

[joescobra03]

anyone else have any info?

[RuhlFreak55]

i thought i've read somewhere that letro also works in the prolactin based estrogen department......?

[RuhlFreak55]

so at the moment all you're on is 500mg of test a week and you're have this serious of a gyno issue? what are you running letro at?

[hankdiesel]

so at the moment all you're on is 500mg of test a week and you're have this serious of a gyno issue? what are you running letro at?

He said 1mg a day. This is not a low dose and it should work. Is it from a reputablen source?

[Ernst]

He said 1ml/day. That would be 2.5mg per day if it's also from ar-r like the tamox was. That is REALLY not a low dose!

I have used letro myself with success, and at a lower dose.

[RuhlFreak55]

so he's been on the letro for 2 weeks at 2.5 mg a day and no help???? i'd have to venture it's either fake or way underdosed then......sorry bro

[hankdiesel]

He said 1ml/day. That would be 2.5mg per day if it's also from ar-r like the tamox was. That is REALLY not a low dose!

I have used letro myself with success, and at a lower dose.

Ya, you're right. He did say 1ml. I am currently taking 1/2ml in my cycle(1.25mg) and it is working great.

[RuhlFreak55]

Ya, you're right. He did say 1ml. I am currently taking 1/2ml in my cycle(1.25mg) and it is working great.

yea if it's real even .1 mg a day i believe suppresses like 98% of your estrogen.....i read that in a study somewhere on here awhile back. since then i never run over a quarter tab every other day or every 2 days unless i'm contest prepping

[mx3]

im 5'6 199lbs 7-8%BF, 4th cycle

I have been on sust 250 550mgs/week shot every other day for the last 6 weeks, i was using arr.com's tomox (Tomoxifen citrate) since the start of the cycle. Start of week 6 i add tren hexahydrobenzylcarbonate at 300mg's a week shot every other day stoped taking the tomox and started using letro at 1ml a day. Over the last 2 weeks I have noticed my gyno progressing and not subsiding. Letro is the strongest Ai i can get on whats my next step here, im starting to get worried. Any help would be great and thanks.

don't freak too much bro most gyno cases can be reversed if its within a year of starting symptoms sometimes longer. I would say theres something wrong with your letro or you just need to wait till your off cycle to see better results.

[joescobra03]

thanks for all the info, the letro is from arr.com so im hoping its legit. The gyno really started flaring up about a week ago, about a week after i added 300mg's of tren to my cycle (shot every other day). One more thing, is the letro fully stablized in my blood yet ive been on it for almost ten days now.

[Dog-Slime]

thanks for all the info, the letro is from arr.com so im hoping its legit. The gyno really started flaring up about a week ago, about a week after i added 300mg's of tren to my cycle (shot every other day). One more thing, is the letro fully stablized in my blood yet ive been on it for almost ten days now.

It takes a month to fully stabilize in the blood.

But with that being said results are generally (but not ALWAYS) seen in less time than this. You say your gyno is still getting worse? If this is the case then your shit is either bunk or you need some caber...

[Mammon]

at this point it try nolvadex as well..
odds are its estrogen related.. progesterone related gyno is , well rare....

[joescobra03]

at this point it try nolvadex as well..
odds are its estrogen related.. progesterone related gyno is , well rare....

ya i was taking nolvadex but from what ive read you aren't supposed to take nolvadex while on tren .

[Mammon]

yeah said to increase the risk of progesterone related sides.. one study i believe.
ive used nolvadex with both tren and deca for years.. works great for me. you could be that one tho i guess.. your choice on this one.. id try anything to stop the progression asap..

[Versuson]

1. Do not take Nolva with Tren .
2. Tren CAN cause Progesterone related gyno. It did to me and I was taking it alone. Stupid me took no AI. Now I know. Oh and Letro does not have impact on Prolactin so best opt for caber or bromo for that.

[J-Dogg]

yeah said to increase the risk of progesterone related sides.. one study i believe.
ive used nolvadex with both tren and deca for years.. works great for me. you could be that one tho i guess.. your choice on this one.. id try anything to stop the progression asap..

I've used nova with tren and it worked fine.

I've used tren with no PCT and it did not work fine.

I think it comes down to the user.

A SERM is not going to raise your prolactin more, or make it worse IMO. It's simply going to compete for those estrogen receptor sites.

If the Nova was working before, I have no idea why you are not back on it already.

[M302_Imola]

you guys are missing the point! He started taking nolva at the beginning, then switched over to letro when he introduced tren into the equation (which I believe to be a smart move), and now is having signs of gyno even though it has been 10 days since the start of the letro (in which the letro is not fully stabilized in the blood but should be working on his estrogen already). So he has done the smart thing and controlled his estrogen since the beginning. So IMO, he is experiencing prolactin based gyno, in which some caber or bromo would be his best bet...that is if his letro is actually legit. Letro will not help with prolactin based gyno regardless.

[kojak_x]

what exactly is prolactin based gyno?

[J-Dogg]

what exactly is prolactin based gyno?

Causes swelling of the mammary glands in the breast. But will also cause tissue growth around the glands.

[Mammon]

dont think prolactin on its own can cause gyno

[J-Dogg]

dont think prolactin on its own can cause gyno

Gave it to me some how.

Tren only cycle, first cycle I did.

Gave me gyno, retarded kid not using any PCT at all.

Did not run a cycle for 6 years after that.

[romo6]

We can go on and on about this,you have to find out what works best for you.Probably should have stayed on nolva.

[Mammon]

far as im aware there is no evidence any progestins cause gyno without the presence of estrogen

[Mammon]

Gave it to me some how.

Tren only cycle, first cycle I did.

Gave me gyno, retarded kid not using any PCT at all.

Did not run a cycle for 6 years after that.

few other possibilities..

Non-aromatase related estrogenic effects from androgen use
In the past we've been pretty uniform about estrogen. Despite theories flying around about progestins, prolactin and what have you not, none showed evidence of having an effect on the development of gyno in the absence of estrogen. Therefor, the use of an anti-estrogen was sufficient to treat problems of this kind.

Gyno is a fairly infrequent problem on proper cycles, and of the number that did have problems a very few people reported it when non estrogenic drugs were used. Of those we need to take into account a lot of them probably couldn't recognize gyno and were overreacting.

Nonetheless, reports of this nature have been around for a long time and continue to persist, begging us to ask the question over and over if there is a factor we are overlooking. Here I would like to present two.

Case number 1 : The appearance of estrogenic effects with testosterone in aromatase negative mice (Ishikawa et al, 2005). This study reported the presence of estrogenic effects in the absence of aromatization, and this effect was blocked by a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor. Meaning a metabolite of DHT is acting as an androgen. Since we already know that saturated A-ring steroids with a 3-hydroxyl group act as estrogens since 5AD is a every potent estrogen, the likely culprits include the neuroactive steroids 3alpha and 3beta androstanediol. Steckelbroeck et al (2004) demonstrated that 5beta-androstanediol is indeed and ER ligand. Now your question will likely be what the relevance of this is to gyno. Its likely less active than estrogens themselves. This is true, but estrogens are produced by aromatase and dumped into circulation and have to make their way to mammary tissue. Mammary tissue itself contains no aromatase (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/UniGene...glist=Hs.511367). 3beta-androstanediol is produced by AKR1C, and this gene is expressed directly in mammary tissue, leading to direct local conversion if DHT is present in the tissue. 5AR is also present in mammary tissue. This means despite weaker activity, the presence of the product in the tissue is likely higher.

Not only can effects of this nature not be blocked by aromatase inhibitors, they are likely worsened by aromatase inhibitors, which would increase the substrate for 5AR. This also opens the door for ER binding of 3beta derivatives of other A-ring saturated androgens. They can be treated with SERMS.

Another important issue pointed out in that study is that unlike the 3-alpha isomer, 3-beta hydroxyl are NOT converted back to DHT.

CASE 2 : the binding of Androgen receptor to estrogen response elements induced by certain ligands. I won't go into detail on this too much as I know I adressed this before. For nandrolone it has been demonstrated that it can bind the AR and cause the AR to activate estrogen-responsive genes. Nandrolone is 60% as estrogenic as estradiol itself and Aromatase inhibitors and ER-blockers and RU486 did not significantly change that number, showing that nandrolone's strong estrogenic effects are caused entirely by the androgen receptor.

Natural nandrolone is a by-product of aromatisation. Likely other 19-Nor-3-oxo steroids are capable of inducing a similar change, to a different extent.

This effect, which is androgen receptor mediated, cannot be blocked by either aromatase or SERMS.

[J-Dogg]

I'll read that later, my head hurts, lol.

[M302_Imola]

We can go on and on about this,you have to find out what works best for you.Probably should have stayed on nolva.

nothing wrong with letro as long as you start it at the right time and your its' legit.