Test E + Clen.. good idea? got better idea for First cycle?

**phat_matt85** · 02-06-2009, 04:28 PM

23 years old

Weight - 200 lbs
Height - 5' 11"
Bfat - 14 % or might be little less now.( I have been cutting little for the cycle)

Past two years i have been playing with my diet to see how what works for me..for the summer i get my bfat to 8-9 % never could get lower but i have never pushed my self to the extreme YET at least.

This will be my first real cycle. What i mean by that is 2 years ago i took only ANAVAR (loved it). Then last year i took only WIN (got nice results).

I can't make up my mind on what to run this time. As of now im thinking

Test E (500mg/wk) for 8 to 10 weeks maybe 12..(im sure most of you will say that)
I want to add Clen or something like that to burn some fat and stay lean while bulking because i want to abs to show..as of now they r not showing.If i run Clen or something like that. When should i start taking it? during or after cycle?
PCT- pct clomid (50/50/25/25) and nolva (40/20/20/20).

Please tell me what u think!

**johnnybigguns** · 02-06-2009, 04:30 PM

I would run the test e for 12 weeks it takes 5 weeks to kick in.
You shouldn't run oral only cycles.

**perry75K** · 02-06-2009, 05:51 PM

use clen in the pct to help hold your gains, using clen on cycle will mess with your receptor cells and make the test less effective (controversial). if you want your abs to show go low carb while on the test and you will see good results. remember clen is 2 weeks on 2 off usally.

**Bigmax** · 02-06-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by johnnybigguns

I would run the test e for 12 weeks it takes 5 weeks to kick in.
You shouldn't run oral only cycles.

Tell us why not please...

**mg3** · 02-06-2009, 06:16 PM

clen less effictive on test??? never heard that before i was always told it was a great combo..i run them both now and im on my 2nd week so i report back if thats so.but it worked very well for a good friend of mine ecept he was runin test cyp 600ml per week
he had wounderful loses in fat and good gains in muscle by week 8 went from 26bf to 16bf in 5 weeks i thought that was good????

**johnnybigguns** · 02-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by bigmax

tell us why not please...

lol!

**dec11** · 02-06-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by perry75K

use clen in the pct to help hold your gains, using clen on cycle will mess with your receptor cells and make the test less effective (controversial). if you want your abs to show go low carb while on the test and you will see good results. remember clen is 2 weeks on 2 off usally.

good advice mate, i used the build up to 4 tabs for two weeks, then hit 2 days on 2 off for 12wks after my las cycle, kept all gains and gaining more, clen aint anabolic but i believe in the theory tht it increases elasticity in the fibres, beta pump, focus and drive and extremly anticataboilic with good cortisol busting properties. love the feckn stuff lol

**phat_matt85** · 02-06-2009, 09:00 PM

Should i run Clen 2 days on and 2 Days off or 2 Weeks on and 2 off. Declan11 said 2 days and perry75K said 2 weeks?

and how long over all should i run clen for a month?

**phat_matt85** · 02-06-2009, 09:01 PM

I read that if you take if for a while it becomes less effective

**Phate** · 02-06-2009, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by perry75K

use clen in the pct to help hold your gains, using clen on cycle will mess with your receptor cells and make the test less effective (controversial). if you want your abs to show go low carb while on the test and you will see good results. remember clen is 2 weeks on 2 off usally.

could you site a study for this? i'm interested

Originally Posted by phat_matt85

Should i run Clen 2 days on and 2 Days off or 2 Weeks on and 2 off. Declan11 said 2 days and perry75K said 2 weeks?

and how long over all should i run clen for a month?

there are several protocols for clen, IMO i like to run it for 6-8 weeks straight with ketotifen fumarate as an upregulator at 3mg/day or diphenhydramine at 50mg/day

but 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is also effective, it's mostly personal preference

Originally Posted by phat_matt85

I read that if you take if for a while it becomes less effective

clenbuterol down regulates your beta 2 receptors, think of it like a stereo draining a battery, as the voltage drops there is less energy output and the system becomes less effective, so you need to recharge the battery(upregulate the beta 2 receptors) with keto or diphen

**phat_matt85** · 02-06-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by perry75K

use clen in the pct to help hold your gains, using clen on cycle will mess with your receptor cells and make the test less effective (controversial). if you want your abs to show go low carb while on the test and you will see good results. remember clen is 2 weeks on 2 off usally.

How low should i go on crabs while on this cycle?

**Phate** · 02-06-2009, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by phat_matt85;441***8

How low should i go on crabs while on this cycle?

i'm gonna leaves the crabs typo alone since i'm in a good mood

but i would like perry75k to explain why he thinks low carb=abs as i disagree

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-06-2009, 11:10 PM

[QUOTE=Phate;4418953]could you site a study for this? i'm interested

yo phate ...long time no see. Ive heard this on and off through the years. Supposedly clen causes slight downreg in testicular androgen receptors. Which as far as i can tell = possible partial shutdown - not adverse affects on muscle building - certainly not with exogenous test administration. The only studies i could find were on of all animals - chickens! Oh and btw - even with the testicular andriogen recpetor downreg - the chickens GAINED LBM... *L*

**Phate** · 02-06-2009, 11:12 PM

[QUOTE=jimmyinkedup;4419090]

Originally Posted by Phate

could you site a study for this? i'm interested

yo phate ...long time no see. Ive heard this on and off through the years. Supposedly clen causes slight downreg in testicular androgen receptors. Which as far as i can tell = partial shutdown - not adverse affects on muscle building. The only studies i could find were on of all animals - chickens!

i know man, haven't been able to get on much, school and training getting in the way, like today i was up at 5, at school by 530, homework till 9, class till 330, then gym at 530, and just got home a couple hours ago, lol

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-06-2009, 11:27 PM

^^^ busy man huh ? good to see you bro...

**phat_matt85** · 02-07-2009, 01:44 PM

Haha yeah Phate i deff ment carbs not crabs..i had a llllong day.

I wonder why you desagree with perry75k on the carbs?

**Phate** · 02-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by phat_matt85

Haha yeah Phate i deff ment carbs not crabs..i had a llllong day.

I wonder why you desagree with perry75k on the carbs?

i disagree because right now i am running my carbs and protein at around the same ratio with lower fats and i'm cutting through bf like crazy, you need carbs to grow, they are essential and dropping them out won't get you abs, having a properly proportioned and structured diet will

i guess i don't completely disagree, i just don't think that saying cut out carbs and you'll get abs is a good explanation

**Rugbyboy8** · 02-10-2009, 04:06 PM

Phate, you seem to have a good knowledge on the whole clen issue - if i can't get ketotifen a few people have said bendryl would be ok to upregulate - how much and how often would you advise taking the bendryl (if you even advise it at all?)

Also after a 6 week course of it how long would you stay off it for before going on again (reason i ask is that i wanted to run it during my cycle and also in my pct)

i.e. week 6 - 12 clen
2 weeks off
then 14 - 20 clen

pct starts at week 14

sorry if that's a hi-jack by the way and thanks for any answers

**Phate** · 02-10-2009, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Rugbyboy8

Phate, you seem to have a good knowledge on the whole clen issue - if i can't get ketotifen a few people have said bendryl would be ok to upregulate - how much and how often would you advise taking the bendryl (if you even advise it at all?)

Also after a 6 week course of it how long would you stay off it for before going on again (reason i ask is that i wanted to run it during my cycle and also in my pct)

i.e. week 6 - 12 clen
2 weeks off
then 14 - 20 clen

pct starts at week 14

sorry if that's a hi-jack by the way and thanks for any answers

i would start another thread about your cycle so we can advise you on that

but since you asked a question about clen i'll answer it

benedryl(actually the main ingredient diphenhydramine, which you can get at the dollar store really cheap, it should be under allergy meds) can be used to upregulate beta 2 receptors during a clen cycle

personally i would run the clen 6-8 weeks max and run the diphen at 50mg either eod or every 2nd week(like one week on just clen, the next week on clen/diphen)

done this way you could run it 6 weeks on, two weeks off, then 6 weeks on again if you wanted too

to be honest with you though, if you have to run it that long your diet/cardio isn't right