Test E Only Cycle - Any Suggestions?

[BGIZZLE8629]

Approaching the start of a 12wk Test. Enanthate cycle.
~ 6' 205lbs
BF%: Probably in the higher range around 15-18% but not sure what it is
Lifting Experience: 4.5yrs
Cycle objective: 12-15lbs lean muscle (not all-out bulking) + leaning out my physique in general.
Cycle History: (dont know if these count) Superdrol, Havoc and a Test Cyp. cycle that leaned me out very well...

Plan on lifting 4-5 days/wk + cardio 2-3x/wk

Supps taking now:
Multi
Creatine
Glutamine
Flax
Sp250
Anator p70

I plan on taking the sp250 for the 1st 4-5 weeks of the cycle until my levels really peak (bc i find that it gives me an extra edge and motivation) and then substituting it for protein + glut + creatine/arginine 15-30 before I leave the house after that point. Also will drop anator during cycle.

Does anyone have objections to using the creatine while ON cycle??


Diet (right now): Be advised that this is a very average version of a high protein diet. I do not have much time for grocery shopping and/or food prep. That being said, I would appreciate that we stick to the questions I have rather than scolding me on my diet. I have come a long way from my previous physique and am still progressing and trying to re-vamp my diet along my path.

Wake/Morning - 5g creatine in 12oz. gatorade
(1-1.5) scoops whey protein shake + (1) scoop syntha-6 roughly 20min. after creatine

Lunch: Quiznos/Chipotle/Subway/KFC/Wendys/Anything healthier than the typical fast foods of cheeseburgers and fries
subs are chicken breast/turkey, let, tom, pepp-jack, banana pepp, wheat,
burrito/bowl is chicken/beef, cheese, tom/corn + hot salsa, very little rice, black beans, no sour cream + water
KFC (i know what your thinking but wait) is 1-2 chicken breast depending on appetite (absolutely no skin consumption!) and beans + water
Wendys - large chilli and grilled chicken wrap (no sauce) + water or small chilli + 2 wraps
Sometimes take in 1-1.5 scoops of whey protein with any of these meals depending on appetite and/or quality of meal eaten

Pre-wo: 1 scoop sp250

Post-wo: either 2-2.5 scoops of whey/1-1.5 scoops whey + 1 scoop syntha6 protein + 5g creatine and 5g glutamine or AnatorP70 (what im using now post w-o)

Dinner: either turkey and cheese on 12grain/health-nut/ezekial bread with 1/2 tbl. spoon light mayo or just mustard sandwich or chicken breast w/lentils or 2 (cant remember her name) i think its sarah marshall hamburgers with peppjack (these are suprisingly good and still healthy bc they are really lean) or any combination from the lunch menu above lol -- if i go out to eat w/my girl somewhere its usually 1-2 chicken breasts w/salad or steak and salad sometimes baked potato/sweet potato, beans (green or black), or corn

Before bed: 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop syntha6

Snacks include: peanut butter south beach diet bars (10g protein), almonds/nuts, small chilli from wendys, or 1 scoop whey protein for between meals

I know that I am using too many whey protein shakes right now but hey something is better than nothing. So as it stands right now, I am ususally getting anywhere from 200-300g of protein/day. Just figured I would let everybody know what Im taking in... in that case maybe if there is anyone with a similiar type of diet, they could know what to expect when doing this kind of cycle.

My questions though actually pertain to how I should dose/taper the test... The BB i got it off of said that the best way to dose is like this: go up in dosage every 2wks starting at 1cc, then 1.5, then 2, then 3 and then taper the same way back down when you want to finish the cycle. I really dont think that Im going to go as high as 3cc (750mg) in any week during this cycle bc I only want to go to like 400-500mg. Any thoughts on his tapering suggestion????? I do want to taper down toward the end of the cycle bc I believe that it will give me a better chance at retaining the gains I have made but idk about his particular method with tapering at the beginning.

Also he said that he starts taking HCG at 200ius/ed during the last week of the cycle and runs it that way throughout along with an AI. Does this seem right??

Currently i have HCG, (60) .25mg tabs of Arimidex , and (45-50) 100mg tabs of clomid. I also have about 50 tabs of 50mg Proviron (not sure if I want to use though for added dht purposes--ie. would only make hairloss worse) I will probably start the arimidex around wk 5 or 6 of my cycle at .25mg eod and run all the way throughout pct (no stoppage between "pct start time" and last injection) any thoughts on better ways to use/run these substances for pct???

One more thing... besides milk thistle/liv-52, is there any other ancillery/protective supps that I should run throughout this cycle??? Like maybe for cholesterol and bp??? I was thinking about running Anab. Inn. Cycle Support but wasnt really sure yet???

Thanks in advance to everyone for their help and support.

[CHUCKYthentic]

First off i understand all the supplements anator and sp250(not sure what that is) ive tried every over the counter crap like that. what ive come to find out very few work and for a short amount of time. too much "proprietary blend" in that shit. thats just my opinion. so u may want to consider dropping that, just my opinion, if it works for u well then to each its own. Dont listen to your supplier, never do. get your research and advice off of here. you NEVER taper with doses like that. it will cause for more sides, screw up your blood levels and not help at all with gains.

If you're gonna run that test E cycle you proposed run it at 500-600mg/week. keep the doses the same throughout. do a little more research and you will see why this is.

as for pct i dont personally run hcg , so cant give you advice on that. read some threads on pct and they could lead you in the right direction

[Immortal Soldier]

sp250(not sure what that is)

It's superpump250 it's a NO type product released by Gaspari Nutrition, I disagree. There are alot of BS OTC products, but there are still a very good amount of ones that can help you grow, obviously you have to search about and seperate the bullshit from the real shit. But they can help you (obiviously no where near steroids can but where not talking about that)

[vishus]

First off i understand all the supplements anator and sp250(not sure what that is) ive tried every over the counter crap like that. what ive come to find out very few work and for a short amount of time. too much "proprietary blend" in that shit. thats just my opinion. so u may want to consider dropping that, just my opinion, if it works for u well then to each its own. Dont listen to your supplier, never do. get your research and advice off of here. you NEVER taper with doses like that. it will cause for more sides, screw up your blood levels and not help at all with gains.

If you're gonna run that test E cycle you proposed run it at 500-600mg/week. keep the doses the same throughout. do a little more research and you will see why this is.

as for pct i dont personally run hcg, so cant give you advice on that. read some threads on pct and they could lead you in the right direction

word.....run HCG during cycle only, you dont need it in your PCT just stick to the nolva clmoid and a-dex. or IMO run arimidex at .25 EOD while during your test e cycle....then cut it off when you do your PCT. for HCG some take 250iu on sat and sun or run 250iu every 3 days.....should do some research though just for good measure

[BGIZZLE8629]

First off i understand all the supplements anator and sp250(not sure what that is) ive tried every over the counter crap like that. what ive come to find out very few work and for a short amount of time. too much "proprietary blend" in that shit. thats just my opinion. so u may want to consider dropping that, just my opinion, if it works for u well then to each its own. Dont listen to your supplier, never do. get your research and advice off of here. you NEVER taper with doses like that. it will cause for more sides, screw up your blood levels and not help at all with gains.

If you're gonna run that test E cycle you proposed run it at 500-600mg/week. keep the doses the same throughout. do a little more research and you will see why this is.

as for pct i dont personally run hcg, so cant give you advice on that. read some threads on pct and they could lead you in the right direction

ok cool. yea i didnt plan on tapering at the beginning but im definitely going to do it toward the end bc i have had some problem with keeping all of my gains with the previous cycle and have researched it on here and seen plenty of advice supporting it... as far as supps go, i know what you mean.. i have tried almost everything out there too.. im doing more research now though so hopefully ill get the best ones out there from now on..

and i agree, BBs usually seem like they dont know what they are talking about but at the same time, they are obviously getting the type of results that im looking for so its kind of confusing.... and i have done sooooooooo much research on this forum as well as others and there are so many threads that contradict each other and it is quite confusing... thanks for all of your advice

[BGIZZLE8629]

word.....run HCG during cycle only, you dont need it in your PCT just stick to the nolva clmoid and a-dex. or IMO run arimidex at .25 EOD while during your test e cycle....then cut it off when you do your PCT. for HCG some take 250iu on sat and sun or run 250iu every 3 days.....should do some research though just for good measure

alright. im not sure if i have enough hcg to run throughout my whole cycle.. i mean i was kind of wanting to use the substances that i already have my hands on w/o having to buy more but that definitely makes sense... if you run hcg throughout the entire cycle then you wouldnt have such a need for it at the end bc you probably wouldnt be that shut down, if at all...

when do you suggest that i start taking the arimidex ?? i know some people say to start it 2 weeks prior to the cycle while others proclaim that you do not need to start running it until your test levels reach there peek between weeks 4 and 6... and i do not have any nolva for pct -- kinda going back to the fact that i would rather use what i have instead of purchasing more

also, what do you think about running tribulus throughout the entire cycle... kind of like a clomid or hcg substitute in an attempt to blunt the affect of your natty test being shut down... have the LH up throughout the cycle. just curious bc ive seen advice and suggestions on here to run trib throughout the cycle and pct to help.

and thanks bro i appreciate your advice

[Mammon]

It's superpump250 it's a NO type product released by Gaspari Nutrition, )

yep, taste like crap too imo.. but do like their plasmajet

[BGIZZLE8629]

bump for advice related to my cycle.... any answers suggestions??

[Mammon]

if you want to run trib through the cycle go ahead.. not gonna hurt.. wont make a big difference either.
even if running HCG through cycle you still gonna be shut down..
id start adex from the beginning of cycle.

oh yeah, get some nolvadex .. you atleast need to have some on hand just in case

[BGIZZLE8629]

if you want to run trib through the cycle go ahead.. not gonna hurt.. wont make a big difference either.
even if running HCG through cycle you still gonna be shut down..
id start adex from the beginning of cycle.

oh yeah, get some nolvadex.. you atleast need to have some on hand just in case

Alright but why would I run it if it wouldn't make any difference at all?
And what would I need nolvadex for if I run arimidex all the way through the cycle and pc?
Thanks for the feedback

[Mammon]

ok if your runnin an AI (adex) you are limiting the conversion of test to estrogen.. fine. but estrogen levels can still elevate past normal levels while running an AI.. at that point the circulating estrogen is already present.. bumping up the ai and further limiting the conversion isnt going to do anything for the estrogen already present and causing the problem..at that point you want to stop whats already there from binding to the receptors.. thus the nolvadex .
as far as the trib.ive ran trib through a few cycles and pct.. not sure what it did to be honest.. didnt tell much of a difference..so as i said,wont hurt.. may be of some benefit.. give it a shot if you like.. dont know how much experience you have you may see a difference..

[BGIZZLE8629]

Bump

[BGIZZLE8629]

Does anyone have objections to using the creatine while ON cycle??

any thoughts on better ways to use/run these substances for pct???

One more thing... besides milk thistle/liv-52, is there any other ancillery/protective supps that I should run throughout this cycle??? Like maybe for cholesterol and bp???

[seriousmass]

lol. you can use creatine throughout the entire year. cycling creatine will not affect the body's ability to intake creatine naturally. Nevertheless, I doubt you will need it. I'm just starting my Test - E cycle, only one week in, and I'm on creatine right now, (because I'm not using a kickstart like d-bol) but I'm going to stop in 2 weeks when the Test kicks in.

I'm planning on also running it during PCT to keep up my modivation / some water weight.

Other then the supplements you've mentioned you might wanna incorperate some Evening Primrose Oil. I take capsules of it everyday.

good luck with the cycle buddy..

[BGIZZLE8629]

lol. you can use creatine throughout the entire year. cycling creatine will not affect the body's ability to intake creatine naturally. Nevertheless, I doubt you will need it. I'm just starting my Test - E cycle, only one week in, and I'm on creatine right now, (because I'm not using a kickstart like d-bol) but I'm going to stop in 2 weeks when the Test kicks in.

I'm planning on also running it during PCT to keep up my modivation / some water weight.

Other then the supplements you've mentioned you might wanna incorperate some Evening Primrose Oil. I take capsules of it everyday.

good luck with the cycle buddy..

ok thats what i figured but i wasnt 100%.. ill probably cut out the creatine around wk 4.. i will definitely add it back in there for pct or at least the sp250, if not both

what does your pct look like bro??

Any thoughts on taking plasma jet throughout pct??

best of luck with your cycle also man.

[BGIZZLE8629]

bump

[FireGuy]

Dude, you bumped your own thread 3 times in 3 days!

[BGIZZLE8629]

make it 4

[Mammon]

dude take the plasmajet whenever you want.. if your wondering if its gonna aid in recovery using it during pct thats a no...

what else do you need to know

[BGIZZLE8629]

dude take the plasmajet whenever you want.. if your wondering if its gonna aid in recovery using it during pct thats a no...

what else do you need to know

i wondered if it would help in general while in pct.. not with FSH or LH.. maybe motivation/cortisol levels...

I need to know what my pct should be if Im taking arimidex and hcg throughout my cycle... shouldnt take either substances in pct if using throughout cycle according to info/research. so what should my pct be? what do i need to get?

[Nicotine]

i think your diet blows...

sandwiches for dinners?.... you expect to grow on that?..

head on over to the diet section, and get something that's better planned..... as for your lunches, as good as your intentions are with those "choices" - it's still crap... and it's expensive. you'll spend easy $10+ on most of those choices - for that price, you can get like 4-6 really good chicken breasts..blammo, 4 meals for the price of 1...

no matter how good your cycle is - if your intake sucks ass, you'll be disapointed.

best of luck!

[austin4023]

general pct for a cycle of test like this is clomid and nolvadex it doesnt matter if you're running arimidex through cycle thats during cycle pct is different. Arimidex is much weaker then nolvadex which is why alot of people run it on cycle to prevent sides/water retention etc.... get your hands on some nolva

[BGIZZLE8629]

i think your diet blows...

sandwiches for dinners?.... you expect to grow on that?..

head on over to the diet section, and get something that's better planned..... as for your lunches, as good as your intentions are with those "choices" - it's still crap... and it's expensive. you'll spend easy $10+ on most of those choices - for that price, you can get like 4-6 really good chicken breasts..blammo, 4 meals for the price of 1...

no matter how good your cycle is - if your intake sucks ass, you'll be disapointed.

best of luck!

your approach to me blows as well. idk how they're ripping u off in canada but the meals i mentioned are between $4-8.

o and thanks for the encouragement.

[UncleD]

the few times ive cut i used creatine to help keep me more full on clycle or not it just seems to help me so i guess its fine take it but you wont see much if your bulkin the juice will be doing so much more wont even know its being used IMHO if your cuttin and calls are down it helps boost your water in muscle some cause your glycogen is low cause of lower carbs ect you get the point

[J-Dogg]

I personally feel it’s very smart to run compounds alone some times.
It allows you to see what you respond good too, what each compound does to you personally. These compounds react different in each of us, and it’s hard to read a few articles and trust them without some of your own experience. You could stack it with Decca, but what works best for you? Are you getting a lot stronger from the Decca or Test or both? Like wise, you could do it with tren , but are you getting gyno from the tren? Or the test?
As far as HCG , be careful with it. I would never run it if I had symptoms of gyno personally. If I was free of gyno, and just wanted my nuts back in a heavy cycle, sure. If you are doing 500mgs of Test E for 12 weeks, it’s not a long hard heavy cycle. I’d keep your AI’s around and your SERMS on hand for sure, and HCG. Keep in mind, HCG can also be used by doctors to start the lactating process for women who are not lactating enough. Progesterone anyone?

I would not even jump right on 500mgs a week either. I’d start out with 250mgs, see how you respond and adjust your dosage accordingly. Play it safe, what’s the rush. See how you respond to the compound and work the dosage out from there. Some of us take 6 Advil for a head ache, some of us only need 2, and I just use Excedrin.

You have to react to PCT by how your body reacts to the compounds too. If you get into larger dosages, I’d run an AI, but that’s just me. If you start to feel estrogenic affects, sore nips or anything, I’d jump 20/60mgs of nova daily right away.

Test E. is a good choice though, it’s one of the few compounds that have been tested on humans, and not farm animals. It’s a basic drug, not too exotic.

Good luck!

[BGIZZLE8629]

how does everybody feel about Defranco's WSSB training program while on cycle? i would be doing a "MAX EFFORT" as well as a "REPITITION" day for upper body as well as a MAX EFFORT day for lower body, then I was going to throw in another day for arms/shoulders bc thats where my physique is lacking.... I have trained with this program here and there/off and on over the past couple years but idk if its the right approach to training while ON CYCLE

does anybody train this way while on their cycle?

would a bodybuilding type of a routine 4-5 days/wk be a better way of lifting? any input on this is greatly appreciated--probably something like
Mon:CHEST/SHOULDERS
Tues:BACK
Wed:OFF
Thurs:LEGS
Fri:ARMS
Sat:OFF
Sun:START OVER/ANOTHER REST DAY IF NEEDED

also, my objective is for size so almost all of my rep ranges for each exercise will be between 4-8...

[seriousmass]

why don't you just do your normal workout routine. and then throw in a muscle-shock week in, once the Test-E has kicked in...

that routine you proposed is fine..

Note: your diet is seriously messed up. Garbage in = garbage gains.

[BGIZZLE8629]

just real quick... i just wana be sure that i dont **** up my math... 5000iu ampule of hcg added 2ml bacteriostatic water, have 100unit slin pins, so thats 25iu/unit right?

if i wana take 250 e3-4days then i need to take 10units every time right?

[FireGuy]

just real quick... i just wana be sure that i dont **** up my math... 5000iu ampule of hcg added 2ml bacteriostatic water, have 100unit slin pins, so thats 25iu/unit right?

if i wana take 250 e3-4days then i need to take 10units every time right?

No, your math is bad.

[FireGuy]

Oops, you used 2ml I see, my bad. Your math is right.

[BGIZZLE8629]

Oops, you used 2ml I see, my bad. Your math is right.

ok good... just wanted to make sure

So, if i have 2 different slin pins filled with the hcg and they're in the fridge I can reuse the same pin every time as long as i keep wiping it off with rubbing alcohol before and after right? at least thats what i assume bc its what the dude i got it from does...

[BGIZZLE8629]

"One more thing... besides milk thistle/liv-52, is there any other ancillery/protective supps that I should run throughout this cycle??? Like maybe for cholesterol and bp??? I was thinking about running Anab. Inn. Cycle Support but wasnt really sure yet???"

anybody?

[BGIZZLE8629]

Yep it's all good.

alright cool. thanks bro.. u do the same thing too then huh?

[Mammon]

Nac........

[BGIZZLE8629]

Nac........

ok thanks man.

anybody else on routines/changing them up specifically for cycle?

[daem]

Lunch: Quiznos/Chipotle/Subway/KFC/Wendys/Anything healthier than the typical fast foods of cheeseburgers and fries

I got to this part before losing it.

Seriously bro, do you honestly thing that shit i HEALTHIER than burgers/fries?

I'd do some more research about your diet before getting any further.

[BGIZZLE8629]

I got to this part before losing it.

Seriously bro, do you honestly thing that shit i HEALTHIER than burgers/fries?

I'd do some more research about your diet before getting any further.

well if you think about it, the only thing that i mentioned that isnt healthy is chipotle if you get a burrito instead of a bowl and the kfc if you eat the skin... so yea that shit is healthier than burgers and fries. wheat bread is better than a burger bun, grilled chicken is better than fatty burgers with trans fat, chili is better than fries with trans fat, turkey is better than garbage drive through burgers, uh... chicken breasts from kfc is better than burgers and fries (like i said i dont eat the skin) its not like a just splurge on a bunch of shit everyday of my life and like i said before my diet is quite average and is in no way intended to come across as a bodybuilder's diet.

i also eat fresh fruits (usually organic), whole grains, occasionally oats in the morning with 2-3 eggs plus 2-3 egg whites, already mentioned the protein shakes, also use skim milk, i drink lots of water, i dont drink soda, yogurt and cottage cheese are also snacks that i eat besides the others that i mentioned... i also eat the white chunk tuna and chicken from the can... i mean idk why everybody thinks im nuts for this. i said my diet was very regular and average meaning that i dont cook 100 chicken breasts every sunday or buy 200 boiled eggs and carry around 5 cups of oats and measure with a food scale before every meal. obviously i dont have the best diet but i can still grow off of what i consume

thanks for your input though..

any takers on specific routine changes i can make if any? more days/wk? also, need help with exercises that give the "cannon ball" look to the medial delts... my front and rear delts are good sized but the medials are lacking so any additional tips/tricks to grow is greatly appreciated... ill probably hit shoulders twice/wk the 1st day being a really hard day and the second just a few sets for additional work. thanks again

[Joker111086]

how does everybody feel about Defranco's WSSB training program while on cycle? i would be doing a "MAX EFFORT" as well as a "REPITITION" day for upper body as well as a MAX EFFORT day for lower body, then I was going to throw in another day for arms/shoulders bc thats where my physique is lacking.... I have trained with this program here and there/off and on over the past couple years but idk if its the right approach to training while ON CYCLE

does anybody train this way while on their cycle?

would a bodybuilding type of a routine 4-5 days/wk be a better way of lifting? any input on this is greatly appreciated--probably something like
Mon:CHEST/SHOULDERS
Tues:BACK
Wed:OFF
Thurs:LEGS
Fri:ARMS
Sat:OFF
Sun:START OVER/ANOTHER REST DAY IF NEEDED

also, my objective is for size so almost all of my rep ranges for each exercise will be between 4-8...

Hmm sounds ok but i would do doubles just in case, cuz last time i did a cycle my body wouldnt really b sore ever and i was ready to workout that muscle again in 2 days... am i wrong on this? id try to train everything twice a week if ur eating enough of the nutrients needed to build lean tissue.

[BGIZZLE8629]

Oh yea and just fyi i started the cycle on 2/2/09-250mg test e + .25mg arimidex later that night

HCG 250iu 2/3/09 plus .25mg arimidex before bed

Arimidex .25mg before bed 2/4
Same as above 2/5

Will be taking 2nd test e injection 2/6 as well as another 250iu hcg + .25mg arimidex before bed

Any objections/suggestions to the .25mg of arimidex ED instead of .5EOD??
Any differences between approaches?

[BGIZZLE8629]

Hmm sounds ok but i would do doubles just in case, cuz last time i did a cycle my body wouldnt really b sore ever and i was ready to workout that muscle again in 2 days... am i wrong on this? id try to train everything twice a week if ur eating enough of the nutrients needed to build lean tissue.

alright. so your talking about something like this:
mon:chest/should/tris
tues:legs
wed:back bis
thurs: rest
friday:repeat

is that what you mean?

if so, idk about that.... i would rather do all arms on one day bc that approach seems to work better for me... i might just do something like:
mon:chest+few sets for shoulders
tues:back
wed:rest
thurs:legs
friday:arms
sat:shoulders
sun:rest