taking vicoden on cycle

**Ronnie Rowland** · 04-03-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by PT

there are alot of pros that take opiates on a regular basis so i doubt it will cause much problems as long as you dont take them everyday and get addicted

I agree with PT. Many top levels trainers use anti-inflammatories on a daily basis as well, so I wouldn't give it much thought. Get some sleep!

**Immortal Soldier** · 04-03-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

I agree with PT. Many top levels trainers use anti-inflammatories on a daily basis as well, so I wouldn't give it much thought. Get some sleep!

They are also on other drugs that the everyday steroid user is not on or even have access to. Now i agree with you, taking Ibuprofen or Tylenol isn't going to make you just stop gaining weight or something dramatic, I still think it shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary.

**Phate** · 04-03-2009, 10:51 PM

i looked up the contraindications for vicoden and didn't see anything you should be worried about, the only thing that can be a problem with that when you take hydrocodone (vicoden consists of hydrocodone bitartrate and acetominiphen) and alcohol it can cause CNS depression

**Immortal Soldier** · 04-03-2009, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

i looked up the contraindications for vicoden and didn't see anything you should be worried about, the only thing that can be a problem with that when you take hydrocodone (vicoden consists of hydrocodone bitartrate and acetominiphen) and alcohol it can cause CNS depression

Tylenol (Acetaminophen) causes roughly drop in protein synthesis when taken. The same can be said for NSAID's such as ibuprofen, although it's to a lesser degree.

Obviously he will still grow, the Tylenol will hinder it to a small extent, that extent could be very minuscule or palpable i'd go with the former.

**bluesman** · 04-04-2009, 12:15 AM

NSAIDs (Your tylenols, aspirins, etc) inhibit prostaglandin synthesis. This is not related to muscle growth directly, but! Prostaglandin directs the inflammatory process, and is a key contributor to cell damage, regrowth, and ultimately, protein synthesis. Disrupt that process, and obvious implications will have to be experienced. Further, many of the NSAIDs do a number on your kidneys and liver, so lets just say that if you are taking other substances that are nephro/hepa toxic, you should take these with further caution. It is a misnomer to think that because most NSAIDs are available OTC, that they are somehow less dangerous.. We here in this forum should know that this is not necessarily the case. After all, using that logic, the opposite "all prescription drugs are highly dangerous" should be correct then, right? Doesn't seem to be the general consensus around here, right?...I digress.

Opioids (vicodin, tramadols, etc)are generally low(er) impact on kidneys and liver, but then again, these are easy to use incorrectly, and often are. Also, these drugs are not as useful in reducing swelling/ inflammation, so their impact on muscle growth cannot be as easily measured, but is definitely impacted through reasons beyond the scope of this thread. Bradykinins, endorphins and cell processes are effected etc. Opioids are also CNS and respiratory depressants (good things to have fully intact when exercising). They do affect the dopamine endorphin function in the brain, that is a key mechanism in the release of cortisol though. For acute pain, they are better used "around the clock" for a set duration of time, rather than as needed. If you only use when your pain is peaking, you WILL develop tolerance. Tolerance can lead to the need for increased dosage, lowering the effective overall therapeutic range of the drug, dependence, addiction, etc .

tl;dr
Get the tooth pulled! Take it easy for a day or two, and then get back to the gym.

Hope this helped as you have helped me a lot in the recent past.

**Discipline_1** · 04-04-2009, 12:56 AM

if you are using a 17aa oral in your cycle then i would suggest milk thistle or liv 52, when i was taking dbol 40mg/day, two cycles ago, i also had a tooth problem and was prescribed hydrocodone, the acetametophine will def. increase liver enzymes, during this cycle i got blood work done and my liver values were noticebly higher when i took the hydrocodone along with the dbol compared to when i took just the dbol

**jamyjamjr** · 04-04-2009, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Discipline_1

if you are using a 17aa oral in your cycle then i would suggest milk thistle or liv 52, when i was taking dbol 40mg/day, two cycles ago, i also had a tooth problem and was prescribed hydrocodone, the acetametophine will def. increase liver enzymes, during this cycle i got blood work done and my liver values were noticebly higher when i took the hydrocodone along with the dbol compared to when i took just the dbol

noted

**xxxJUICExxx** · 04-04-2009, 05:11 AM

habout THC guys...?

aka maryjane

**jamyjamjr** · 04-04-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by bluesman

NSAIDs (Your tylenols, aspirins, etc) inhibit prostaglandin synthesis. This is not related to muscle growth directly, but! Prostaglandin directs the inflammatory process, and is a key contributor to cell damage, regrowth, and ultimately, protein synthesis. Disrupt that process, and obvious implications will have to be experienced. Further, many of the NSAIDs do a number on your kidneys and liver, so lets just say that if you are taking other substances that are nephro/hepa toxic, you should take these with further caution. It is a misnomer to think that because most NSAIDs are available OTC, that they are somehow less dangerous.. We here in this forum should know that this is not necessarily the case. After all, using that logic, the opposite "all prescription drugs are highly dangerous" should be correct then, right? Doesn't seem to be the general consensus around here, right?...I digress.

Opioids (vicodin, tramadols, etc)are generally low(er) impact on kidneys and liver, but then again, these are easy to use incorrectly, and often are. Also, these drugs are not as useful in reducing swelling/ inflammation, so their impact on muscle growth cannot be as easily measured, but is definitely impacted through reasons beyond the scope of this thread. Bradykinins, endorphins and cell processes are effected etc. Opioids are also CNS and respiratory depressants (good things to have fully intact when exercising). They do affect the dopamine endorphin function in the brain, that is a key mechanism in the release of cortisol though. For acute pain, they are better used "around the clock" for a set duration of time, rather than as needed. If you only use when your pain is peaking, you WILL develop tolerance. Tolerance can lead to the need for increased dosage, lowering the effective overall therapeutic range of the drug, dependence, addiction, etc .

tl;dr
Get the tooth pulled! Take it easy for a day or two, and then get back to the gym.

Hope this helped as you have helped me a lot in the recent past.

great post man... that's just good karma comin back my way

appreciate it...

but for the tooth pulling, im sure i wont be able to eat well for a coupla days and im mid cycle right now with 6 weeks left... dont wanna risk it (gonna try to ride it out)

**bluesman** · 04-05-2009, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by jamyjamjr

great post man... that's just good karma comin back my way

appreciate it...

but for the tooth pulling, im sure i wont be able to eat well for a coupla days and im mid cycle right now with 6 weeks left... dont wanna risk it (gonna try to ride it out)

My pleasure.

You could try chewing lightly on some raw ginger root. Just spit it out after. It has localized anti bacterial and anti inflammatory properties. For a not so natural choice, "anbesol" found at any drug store would also take the edge off....

Hey, I could use a little bit of good karma. I went in for a physical to get myself prepped up and checked out for working out again, and the doc discovered a hernia (abdominal). Just got the surgery three days ago. Walking without pain only today, no lifting for 3 months.... SSHHHIIIIIITTTT!!

**jamyjamjr** · 04-05-2009, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by bluesman

My pleasure.

You could try chewing lightly on some raw ginger root. Just spit it out after. It has localized anti bacterial and anti inflammatory properties. For a not so natural choice, "anbesol" found at any drug store would also take the edge off....

Hey, I could use a little bit of good karma. I went in for a physical to get myself prepped up and checked out for working out again, and the doc discovered a hernia (abdominal). Just got the surgery three days ago. Walking without pain only today, no lifting for 3 months.... SSHHHIIIIIITTTT!!

looks like i need to be counting my blessing man... that shit sucks