Methepitiostane Discussion?

[kojak_x]

Now I know that everyone recommends Test for a first cycle. Now what I took for a first cycle was methylated version of the steroid Epitiostanol. (also known as Epistane/Havoc) Now I always see this steroid in the supplements section sometimes thought of as prohormone from this website and others too which from my knowledge is false. It is not a prohormone but a oral steriod . Now what Im curious to know is why is this steroid never mentioned in this section of the forum. It doesn't seem to get the same respect that other steroids get. Now from a safety standpoint, besides it being a oral which is taxing on the liver. Which compared to other orals is less hepatoxic and damaging to lipid levels. Also its a steroidal aromatase inhibitor so no AI required during cycle. (1 month) Nolvadex was enough for pct for me. The drug can be used for bulking and cutting. Most users report 10lbs solid dry muscle, me including. Any information on what some more experienced users like T-Mos, BIG, or whoever think about this steroid would be appreicied.

Some infomation:
Generic Names:

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
2±,3±-Epithio-5±-androstan-17²-ol

Methylated version of the steroid epitiostanol

Havoc is a steroidal AI
Will get rid of gyno

Epistane is an interesting compound with the chemical structure 2a,3a-Epithio-17a-methyl-17B-hydroxy-5a-androstane. This unique chemical structure allows for this compound to exhibit an anabolic value 1100% higher than Methyltestosterone , while being only 91% as androgenic . This means more hypertrophy with less instances of side effects seen by other anabolic compounds. The epithiol structure at positions 2 and 3 makes the compound unique in that it adds to the overall structure and fucntionality of the compound, making it a potent steroidal anti-estrogen. The anti-estrogenic properties coupled with high anabolic value (Q ratio of 12) make this an appealing compound to anyone looking to add lean mass to their frame while staying dry and hard. Another advantage to the anti-estrogenic properties of this compound is that it stacks well with "wet" compounds where estrogen can become a problem.

Epistane/Havoc/Hemaguno
Innovators: ***, RPN, Spectra Force
Nomenclature: 2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Pill Size: 10mg or 12.5mg depending on what brand you use
Dosages: 20-50mg
Side Effects: Milder on liver and lipid levels than other methyls. Known to cause lower back and calf pumps.
Reputation: There has had some spectroscopy and compound identification issues with these products, but from personal experience with it, is still a solid product. Many users have taken this compound as a solo run for gynecomastia reduction due to it's SERM-like and anti-aromatase properties. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' of taking orals. Users can expect to see significant gains in both strength and mass.

Epitiostanol is a relatively obscure steroid used for breast cancer that is only available in Japan. Again you might say, “How does a drug used for breast cancer work for us extreme fitness types?” Well, Epitiostanol was actually developed back in the 1960’s and has an
extremely good anabolic/androgenic ratio. This means that it causes a whole host of positive effects in the body with minimal negative androgenic effects. The reason it was used for breast cancer is that it was shown to exert a potent anti-estrogenic effect which halted the progression of estrogen-stimulated cancers. What wonderful characteristics to have in a steroid! Great muscle growth with small androgenic phenomenon with no estrogenic problems like gyno…sounds like the perfect steroid!

Well, the Japanese company Shionogi thought so too but they wanted a characteristic that epitiostanol lacked—significant oral bioavailability. The smart people at this company went back into the literature and found that 17B steroidal ethers caused a significant increase in oral bioavailability. They used the ether technology and voila, they created Mepitiostane. Fortunately, they didn’t stop there! They decided to
elucidate just how these ethers work. Read below for the story!

The Shionogi research team began their quest by asking the question as to what possible ways could the ether group be increasing bioavailability. They realized that orally administered drugs and nutrients are transferred to the systemic circulation via the portal and/or lymphatic route following passage through the mucosal cell of the intestinal lumen. They also understood that the portal route is considered to be the main route for compounds absorbed from the intestines because blood flow is about 500 times greater than lymph flow in capillaries of the villus.

Thus they first looked at the portal route and asked whether the ether group on the steroid could be preventing the steroid from being metabolized by the liver. They looked at the characteristics of the molecule and decided that this was probably not the right answer.

Although not the primary place of absorption of most compounds, the intestinal lymphatic system is known to play an important role in the absorption of some compounds such as long chain fatty acids, triglycerides and lipid soluble vitamins. A compound absorbed via intestinal lymphatics directly enters the systemic circulation at the level of the subclavian vein which avoids first pass metabolism of the compound through the liver.

With this in mind, our good friends at Shionogi decided to look here for their answers. Hey, all I can say is that these guys were right on the money! Using radioactive labeling of both Epitiostanol and Mepitiostane, they found that Epitiostanol is almost entirely absorbed via the portal route while mepitiostane is almost entirely absorbed via the lymphatic route. Bingo!

One of the most fascinating things that I noticed in their research was that there are literally a multitude of factors that determine the bioavailability of orally consumed steroids. Intestinal absorption usually refers to the process of uptake of a compound from the site of absorption into the systemic circulation. This process includes the penetration through the epithelial cells, metabolism in the epithelial cells and transfer from the epithelial cells into the portal vein or lymphatics. Any or all of these processes can significantly cause inhibition of absorption of the parent compound. I have heard for quite some time from various sources that methandrostenolone (Dianabol ) works much better when taken orally than injected. I used to scoff at this but now I might be in a position to believe what I heard. You see, there is quite a bit of research which shows that anabolic steroids undergo significant metabolism in the epithelial cells. Consequently, ingested methandrostenolone, as well as other orally administered steroids, could possibly be significantly converted into other active species with highly different characteristics before it even reaches the liver!

In the magazines and advertisements, we hear all the time that taking so and so amount of prohormone will give you thus and thus blood levels of that particular steroid. They base this simply by saying that a certain predefined percentage makes it through unmetabolized by the liver. They do not consider the facts that a great amount might not get absorbed by the epithelial cells nor do they take into consideration the fact that much might get metabolized into either more or less active species. Basically, the whole situation is quite complex and cannot be simplified with such a sophomoric formula.

I also want to bring up the point again of how important it is to have a proper delivery system to cause increased penetration/absorption in the epithelial cells. I dug up a bunch of research which shows that without any type of delivery system as much as 50% of the ingested steroid can be unabsorbed. You can guess what happens to this unabsorbed steroid! Into the toilet my friend; into the toilet!!!

After Shionogi showed that steroidal ethers are absorbed in the lymphatic system, they did a series of studies which determined exactly what was responsible for lymphatic versus portal partitioning. Please understand that when the steroid is absorbed into the epithelial cell it is PARTITIONED or directed into either the portal vein or the lymphatic system. I already know what you are asking, “What determines the partitioning?”

It is a phenomenon called SUPERLIPOPHILICITY! If you remember correctly fatty acids and triglycerides are almost completely absorbed into the lymph. Superlipophilicity makes the compound associate so strongly with triglycerides and fatty acids that it absorbs in a similar fashion. During absorption, superlipophilic compounds become incorporated into the core lipids of chylomicrons in the intestinal mucosal cells of the intestinal mucosa. These fatty chylomicrons are then transferred almost exclusively into the lymphatic system (including the steroidal ethers).

Epistane/Havoc/Methepitiostane/Hemaguno
(2a-3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol)
Methepitiostane is an oral anabolic steroid derived from dihydrotestosterone. This drug exhibits an anabolic effect that is roughly 12 times more pronounced than its androgenic effect, and also imparts an anti estrogenic effect. RPN’s product Havoc and ***’s Epistane were introduced at practically the same time and considered interchangeable by many. However, it should be noted that even when two products are identical, users can experience different effects depending on the quality of the isomer, manufacturing process and so on. With Havoc and Epistane they are chemically very slightly different 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol 2 (Havoc), and 2, 3a-epithio-17a-methyletioallo cholan-17b-ol (Epistane). Dosages are usually in the 10-30mg range. Competitive Edge Labs E-Stane is probably the cheapest listed version of Methepitiostane.
Effects: useful for promoting solid, lean muscle gains with a concomitant reduction in estrogen leading to a drier physique, and significant strength gains. This will contribute to the vascularity users typically report. Havoc and Epistane are also sometimes used purely to combat gynecomastia as they act in the body as an anti estrogen, which also may produce some lethargy though.
Side effects: less hepatoxic and damaging to lipid levels than other orals but Methepitiostane is a c17-alpha alkylated compound. Methepitiostane is not aromatized by the body.

[romangod]

Can epitiostanol be used in a transdermal application? I mean of course the original product from Japan.