Its time to cycle...but there is some uncertainty...anyone want to help?

**Dancer** · 06-26-2009, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Noles12

Not good its just like running clen straight for those 4 weeks. Its still down regulating

Debatable issue... E does affect B-2 but to much lesser degree and no i am still not looking up the study

**Dancer** · 06-26-2009, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

it'll still downregulate, it's possible with a high dose of ketotifen fumarate he could upregulate in the presence of ECA, but if he has keto he should just be running clen for 6-8 weeks straight

either way, clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with nothing on the off weeks is the best way to utilize the clen and minimize risk of heart cell damage

True on the heart damage... But he is not going to listen... His layout is asinine....

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-26-2009, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dancer

True on the heart damage... But he is not going to listen... His layout is asinine....

if i wasnt concerened with opinions i wouldnt have asked..

so dont come to your own conclusions about what i am going to do...

and if i was someone who had used AAS bfore...youd probably be singing a different tune...

thanks

**Dancer** · 06-26-2009, 11:56 PM

Fine... here is my concluded subpar advice:

I think if you are gonna use aas you need test the first time around, you wanna run tbol or what have you as a fast little oral thats cool.

Test e @ 500mg EW (E3D split) run for the whole 8 weeks I would go 12 but thats just me
Tbol @50mg is cool first 4 weeks is about all you need
T-3 no more than 60mcg no more than 4 weeks
clen 2 weeks on 2 off, try eca but its better if you just laid off
keto use on the weeks you are off the clen

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-26-2009, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dancer

Fine... here is my concluded subpar advice:

I think if you are gonna use aas you need test the first time around, you wanna run tbol or what have you as a fast little oral thats cool.

Test e @ 500mg EW (E3D split) run for the whole 8 weeks I would go 12 but thats just me
Tbol @50mg is cool first 4 weeks is about all you need
T-3 no more than 60mcg no more than 4 weeks
clen 2 weeks on 2 off, try eca but its better if you just laid off
keto use on the weeks you are off the clen

i edited out the sub par part, a little over the top, but still...

thanks foryour advice...

**Dancer** · 06-27-2009, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by BadNewsBerto

i edited out the sub par part, a little over the top, but still...

thanks foryour advice...

Aint no thing... don't worry about it...

IMHO read up on lenght of use for t3 on those studies I listed...

also strongly consider that unless you LBM:BF% ratio does not improve you have not achieved anything.

say you start at whatever weight you start at and loss 10 pounds if the ratio of weight loss is not geared toward bf then you are not achieving anything...

I also strongly suggest you look at PCT course.

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dancer

Aint no thing... don't worry about it...

IMHO read up on lenght of use for t3 on those studies I listed...

also strongly consider that unless you LBM:BF% ratio does not improve you have not achieved anything.

say you start at whatever weight you start at and loss 10 pounds if the ratio of weight loss is not geared toward bf then you are not achieving anything...

I also strongly suggest you look at PCT course.

bro if i was going o use test..id be doing 500iu hcg E4D
as well as adex throughout cycle
and clomid nolva pct
i wouldnt take an chances

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:06 AM

i just wanted to avoid all those ancilleries until i bulked with test, thats why i was thinkin tbol, doesnt aromatize, and is mild on the liver. and from reading jack87s take on clen t3 cycle... i assumed tbol would be enough to counter muscle catabolism, considering he suggests either 50mgpropED 40varED or 50winstrolED....

as for the t3 ill deff have a look at those articles

cheers

**Dancer** · 06-27-2009, 12:06 AM

Why do you think pct is not needed for tbol?

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:10 AM

dude read my original post bro....its there if you take a second

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dancer

Why do you think pct is not needed for tbol?

no once did those words come out of my mouth

**Dancer** · 06-27-2009, 12:12 AM

Ok so why do you think you don't need pct for 8 weeks wortha tbol?

"bro if i was going o use test..id be doing 500iu hcg E4D
as well as adex throughout cycle
and clomid nolva pct
i wouldnt take an chances"

You still need to do this for 8 weeks of tbol

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dancer

Ok so why do you think you don't need pct for 8 weeks wortha tbol?

"bro if i was going o use test..id be doing 500iu hcg E4D
as well as adex throughout cycle
and clomid nolva pct
i wouldnt take an chances"

You still need to do this for 8 weeks of tbol

I disagree... that would be total overkill IMO

i may not have 1st hand experience, but i personally know 2 guys that did tbol only cycles at 80mg ED for8 weeks, and used nolva alone for pct and recovered and kept all gains, which were quite impresive as well.

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:17 AM

and ive asked around about pct for tbol, and most agree that nolva is good enough

**Dancer** · 06-27-2009, 12:20 AM

Do agree that the use of t3/clen /keto and proper diet will be catabolic?

Do you think the anabolic effect of tbol at 50mg will counter the possible muscle loss?

tbol for 8 weeks at 50mg will shut you down. Nolv will not be enough IMHO...

**BadNewsBerto** · 06-27-2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Dancer

Do agree that the use of t3/clen /keto and proper diet will be catabolic?

Do you think the anabolic effect of tbol at 50mg will counter the possible muscle loss?

tbol for 8 weeks at 50mg will shut you down. Nolv will not be enough IMHO...

well ill have clomid on hand...

we could debate this all night, but i have to get to bed

i appreciate the help

ill check for replies in the morning..

cheers bro