Well I'm into pct and disapointed!

[Sooner54]

I started my Test cycle weighing in at 224. I ate well good lean diet was up to 240lbs. My cycle was 1-12 wks Test Cyp
8-15 100 mg every day of Anavar
jumped right on pct 100 mg Clomid and 20mg Nvadx

Well im on week 16 my first of pct and I'm back down to 224lbs. I did gain strength on the Test but I cant believe I lost all that weight. I do fluctuate quite a bit. I also look alot better than I did before I started cycle. So I'm a newbie it was my first cycle. I did quite a bit of Cardio while on probably 30 min a day. Is this normal on the weight?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Why would you do 30 minutes of cardio daily on a bulk? You don't need to do any cardio. Once a week would have been fine. The point is to bulk and eat an excess of calories, not burn them. Doing all that cardio every day is catabolic

[Necrosaro]

You lost too much. Personally you should have been able to keep up your weight if you had a good diet in place!

[Juturna]

I started my Test cycle weighing in at 224. I ate well good lean diet was up to 240lbs. My cycle was 1-12 wks Test Cyp
8-15 100 mg every day of Anavar
jumped right on pct 100 mg Clomid and 20mg Nvadx

Well im on week 16 my first of pct and I'm back down to 224lbs. I did gain strength on the Test but I cant believe I lost all that weight. I do fluctuate quite a bit. I also look alot better than I did before I started cycle. So I'm a newbie it was my first cycle. I did quite a bit of Cardio while on probably 30 min a day. Is this normal on the weight?

Diet wasn't on point.

Also - how's your BF before and after? Did you measure body parts to see size increases?

[ROIDSR4ME]

Ok guys don’t flame the guy about his cardio because it looks like he was on a cutter not a bulker, Var is mostly used for cutting anyways. To the OP, what was your before cycle bf% & what was your after %? I have done test and var before and maintained the same weight but cut ALOT of bf in the process of maintaining my mass.

[roid_rage]

weight most of the times isnt the most important thing, if you lost a good ammount of BF, that means you gain muscles... and that's what we all want right?

[Juturna]

Ok guys don’t flame the guy about his cardio because it looks like he was on a cutter not a bulker, Var is mostly used for cutting anyways. To the OP, what was your before cycle bf% & what was your after %? I have done test and var before and maintained the same weight but cut ALOT of bf in the process of maintaining my mass.

Then why is he complaining that he lost his weight gain? Durrr.

[Mooseman33]

exactyl J..

and where was the flamming?
the truth hurts..

[ROIDSR4ME]

Then why is he complaining that he lost his weight gain? Durrr.

Maybe it was water weight, that why I asked him what his before & after bf% was. I always do cardio on a cutter so no since blaming the cardio for the reason why he lost all of his weight especially since he did not state whether or not it was a bulker of cutter......

[redz]

This sounds like a diet issue to me..... I have done cardio 5 times a week while bulking without seeing this problem.

[Juturna]

I'm just saying - nobody flamed him... We asked about cardio because it seemed an oxymoron - either wrong cycle or wrong routine.

As I stated ;

Did you measure body parts to see size increases?

So again OP - Did you see a change in BF% or muscle sizes?

[Juturna]

This sounds like a diet issue to me..... I have done cardio 5 times a week while bulking without seeing this problem.

Agree - it very well could be... Waiting on OP's reply.

[Narkissos]

Why would you do 30 minutes of cardio daily on a bulk? You don't need to do any cardio. Once a week would have been fine. The point is to bulk and eat an excess of calories, not burn them. Doing all that cardio every day is catabolic

No it isn't.

[ninesecz]

This is why you do not just hop on steroids .. you need to know what you are doing.. Bulking or cutting.. Sounds to me like you wanted to bulk but did not eat enough and did cardio so you ended up cutting. you probably put on 10# of muscle ut from not eating enough and doing cardio, you lost some BF. This is the problem when you do not plan everything out. When you got on you needed to know what you were doing and if it was a bulker, you should have put a lot more than 16#.. I think you are Ok. just next time remember what I say and plan ahead

[MarkinHouston]

there's no way to know if his cycle was successful w/o knowing b4 n after bf%. Hell, if he gained 15# lean and lost 15# fat, thats good....and I'm with Narc, 30 min cardio isn't that catabolic, but it isn't going to cut you up, either....

[Narkissos]

I started my Test cycle weighing in at 224. I ate well good lean diet was up to 240lbs. My cycle was 1-12 wks Test Cyp
8-15 100 mg every day of Anavar
jumped right on pct 100 mg Clomid and 20mg Nvadx

Well im on week 16 my first of pct and I'm back down to 224lbs. I did gain strength on the Test but I cant believe I lost all that weight. I do fluctuate quite a bit. I also look alot better than I did before I started cycle. So I'm a newbie it was my first cycle. I did quite a bit of Cardio while on probably 30 min a day. Is this normal on the weight?

What was your starting bodyfat percentage?

What was your ending bodyfat percetage?

How did your diet/activity change when you came off the gear... if at all?

[Juturna]

Nobody disputed that Markin - we're waiting on the OP to reply with results in regards to BF AND size.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

No it isn't.

it can be. it all depends on the length and the intensity of the cardio sessions. 7 days of low intensity isnt catabolic, but 7 days of moderate/intense cardio with certainly have a negative impact on bulking

[ninesecz]

it can be. it all depends on the length and the intensity of the cardio sessions. 7 days of low intensity isnt catabolic, but 7 days of moderate/intense cardio with certainly have a negative impact on bulking

Negative effect on bulking does not make it "catabolic" do you know what catabolic means?

[Juturna]

Negative effect on bulking does not make it "catabolic" do you know what catabolic means?

Shh give him time to Google it.

I thought Catabolic meant you stop gaining muscle if you eat chicken and rice? Then the News told me coffee, chocolate and sugar are good for my heart.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Negative effect on bulking does not make it "catabolic" do you know what catabolic means?

come on man I may be new to AAS but I sure as hell am not new to the bodybuilding lifestyle. I guarantee you I know more than most people here when it comes to training and nutrition.

I may have mixed what the word means with the topic at hand, but I stand by what I said

Shh give him time to Google it.

I thought Catabolic meant you stop gaining muscle if you eat chicken and rice? Then the News told me coffee, chocolate and sugar are good for my heart.

you really feel the need to be an ass?

[Matt]

Come on guy's lets not let this thread slip into name calling, when its making for a good debate...

[ninesecz]

trust me bro you might know a lot but you are not showing it with that type of talk...
You are really going to sit there and say that with certain types of cardio , I am going to stop making muscle?... and possibly lose muscle?
I mean I do agree that doing cardio (or anything that will cause you to use up calories) can have a negative effect on "bulking" but no so much on muscle building! as long as your body has enough nutrients it can still gain muscle and LBM. You might have a hard time adding 25# to your frame in say 2-3 months but this in no way makes cardio catabolic and in fact have you looked at some marathon runners / triathletes swimmers?/ these people do 4-6 hours of cardio a day sometimes (they call it training for their sport) and some of them are pretty damn "Jacked" My brother is one for example... he is a triathlete, he is 8% BF and looks pretty darn good.

[Bullnutz]

Shh give him time to Google it.

I thought Catabolic meant you stop gaining muscle if you eat chicken and rice? Then the News told me coffee, chocolate and sugar are good for my heart.

Friday nights rock here!

[AlphaMaleDawg]

trust me bro you might know a lot but you are not showing it with that type of talk...
You are really going to sit there and say that with certain types of cardio , I am going to stop making muscle?... and possibly lose muscle?
I mean I do agree that doing cardio (or anything that will cause you to use up calories) can have a negative effect on "bulking" but no so much on muscle building! as long as your body has enough nutrients it can still gain muscle and LBM. You might have a hard time adding 25# to your frame in say 2-3 months but this in no way makes cardio catabolic and in fact have you looked at some marathon runners / triathletes swimmers?/ these people do 4-6 hours of cardio a day sometimes (they call it training for their sport) and some of them are pretty damn "Jacked" My brother is one for example... he is a triathlete, he is 8% BF and looks pretty darn good.

it really depends on the individual. and most marathon runners dont look big and jacked at all. they are really thin. anyways dont mind me, ive been in a lousy mood lately because my gf broke up with me last night

[Narkissos]

it can be. it all depends on the length and the intensity of the cardio sessions. 7 days of low intensity isnt catabolic, but 7 days of moderate/intense cardio with certainly have a negative impact on bulking

Now you're backpeddling.

Nowhere in his post did the OP state what kind of cardio he did.

All he said was that he did 30 minutes per day.

You came in here spouting blanket statements which are plain wrong... any way you look at it. Plain parroting.

You guys need to realize the difference between 'bulking' and getting fat.

Now... let's get the thread back on track.

Bump for the OP.

[Narkissos]

trust me bro you might know a lot but you are not showing it with that type of talk...
You are really going to sit there and say that with certain types of cardio , I am going to stop making muscle?... and possibly lose muscle?
I mean I do agree that doing cardio (or anything that will cause you to use up calories) can have a negative effect on "bulking" but no so much on muscle building! as long as your body has enough nutrients it can still gain muscle and LBM. You might have a hard time adding 25# to your frame in say 2-3 months but this in no way makes cardio catabolic and in fact have you looked at some marathon runners / triathletes swimmers?/ these people do 4-6 hours of cardio a day sometimes (they call it training for their sport) and some of them are pretty damn "Jacked" My brother is one for example... he is a triathlete, he is 8% BF and looks pretty darn good.

Bingo was his name-o.

Good post.

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Now you're backpeddling.

Nowhere in his post did the OP state what kind of cardio he did.

All he said was that he did 30 minutes per day.

You came in here spouting blanket statements which are plain wrong... any way you look at it. Plain parroting.

You guys need to realize the difference between 'bulking' and getting fat.

Now... let's get the thread back on track.

Bump for the OP.

i dont see how i backpedalled. all i said was too much cardio can be catabolic. i didnt mean to hijack the thread with this debate.

[Juturna]

Shh Alpha, it's over - don't worry about it. Nark knows his stuff and he's trying to help you understand.

OP disappeared but it's open board if he returns to have his questions answered.

[Sooner54]

Ok guys don’t flame the guy about his cardio because it looks like he was on a cutter not a bulker, Var is mostly used for cutting anyways. To the OP, what was your before cycle bf% & what was your after %? I have done test and var before and maintained the same weight but cut ALOT of bf in the process of maintaining my mass.

Yes it pretty much was a cutter. My Bf was around 15 percent and now I need to get it checked again but I'm much leaner. I was doing low intense cardio 5 times a week on avg. I just didnt think I would lose 15 pounds plus of water weight when I got off. Thats why I'm asking if its normal to return to the original weight. I never took the Test to bulk but thought hey if it happens it happens. My bench went from 320 max to 380 and I can still lift 380 at least for now lol.

Bottom line is I look much better after cycle. I ate 4 eggs on the wakeup 1 full 3 just whites. Then I would work out and have 30 to 40 gram shake. An hour later usually alot of lean chicken some broccoli etc. Maybe eat rice with it 3 times a week. 3 hours later a can of tuna and maybe handful of peanuts here and there. So no I didnt eat to bulk just surprised I could loose so much water weight so fast.

[.EA.]

Yes it pretty much was a cutter. My Bf was around 15 percent and now I need to get it checked again but I'm much leaner. I was doing low intense cardio 5 times a week on avg. I just didnt think I would lose 15 pounds plus of water weight when I got off. Thats why I'm asking if its normal to return to the original weight. I never took the Test to bulk but thought hey if it happens it happens. My bench went from 320 max to 380 and I can still lift 380 at least for now lol.

Bottom line is I look much better after cycle. I ate 4 eggs on the wakeup 1 full 3 just whites. Then I would work out and have 30 to 40 gram shake. An hour later usually alot of lean chicken some broccoli etc. Maybe eat rice with it 3 times a week. 3 hours later a can of tuna and maybe handful of peanuts here and there. So no I didnt eat to bulk just surprised I could loose so much water weight so fast.

Well now you know. I lose water weight pretty damn fast. As I stated before, the body holds onto whatever isn't provided on a regular basis. I drink over 2 liters of water a day, so my body doesn't have to hold excess water 'thinking' water is "hard to come by".

That's why when people looking to lose weight clean up their diet of sugars and sodium, they get surprised when they start losing weight (including water weight) the more they drink water. It's not uncommon.

[Too Little Muscles]

100 mg. of Anavar everyday is toxic to your liver. There is an article in the July, 2009 issue of Muscular Development mag. It was written by an MD who obviously had a lot of knowledge of anabolic steroids . The entire article was about oxandrolone. He stated that research shows that any dosage of oxandrolone over 40 mg. a day will produce some serious liver damage. There are too many posts on this site and others recommending high dosages of these powerful drugs. You don't need to use high dosages. I gained 8 lbs. on a 10 week cycle of 10mg. a day of oxandrolone and 200 mg. a week of Deca .(That's all I had for a 10 week cycle.) I never lost 1 lb. back and never had to use PCT at those dosages.

[redz]

100 mg. of Anavar everyday is toxic to your liver. There is an article in the July, 2009 issue of Muscular Development mag. It was written by an MD who obviously had a lot of knowledge of anabolic steroids. The entire article was about oxandrolone. He stated that research shows that any dosage of oxandrolone over 40 mg. a day will produce some serious liver damage. There are too many posts on this site and others recommending high dosages of these powerful drugs. You don't need to use high dosages. I gained 8 lbs. on a 10 week cycle of 10mg. a day of oxandrolone and 200 mg. a week of Deca.(That's all I had for a 10 week cycle.) I never lost 1 lb. back and never had to use PCT at those dosages.

You are a blind fool I would like to highlight some parts of what you said.....

You trust the article you read? you know you took a low womens dose of anavar dont you? Many people have run anavar at 100mg daily and had no problems it is a very mild steroids so i dont know why you called it a powerful drug because in the world of steroids it isnt very strong. Secondly you advocate not doing pct after a deca and anavar cycle. You know nothing....even just doing that cycle shows how dumb you are.

[Dancer]

ohhh ohhhh I can get in the pissing match... j/k

Every one ignored the fact that he has been off for one week (lets examine that a little more)

So our newby here was taking 100mg for a number of weeks prior to getting off, right?

So 7 days after his last dosage his system isnt all that clean for days... Lets look at var most say it has a half of 12-18 hours (give or take based on digestion and a few factors but lets not get that tech) so after a few weeks of 100mg ED he has built up about 300mg in his blood stream ED.

Point being it aint the drugs after just 7 days

The PCT hasnt even started working yet.

Its either the current diet/lifting/sleep...

[Dancer]

100 mg. of Anavar everyday is toxic to your liver. There is an article in the July, 2009 issue of Muscular Development mag. It was written by an MD who obviously had a lot of knowledge of anabolic steroids. The entire article was about oxandrolone. He stated that research shows that any dosage of oxandrolone over 40 mg. a day will produce some serious liver damage. There are too many posts on this site and others recommending high dosages of these powerful drugs. You don't need to use high dosages. I gained 8 lbs. on a 10 week cycle of 10mg. a day of oxandrolone and 200 mg. a week of Deca.(That's all I had for a 10 week cycle.) I never lost 1 lb. back and never had to use PCT at those dosages.

Do you mind posting a link...

Oxandrolone has been shown to improve liver function. The chemical struc has an extra binding atom that is released.

Look it up on publicmed if you cant find it PM me I will dig it up... Bot trying to hijack the thread by getting of on liver function and var, but it does not have a neg effect as aas on function... 1971 there was a study on it that improved impared function

[Dancer]

What was your starting bodyfat percentage?

What was your ending bodyfat percetage?

How did your diet/activity change when you came off the gear... if at all?

And, that is the nail on the head.

Most dont realize that if you started out at 15% and now are at 11% that diff in the OP's case is about 10 pounds of muscle.

[Narkissos]

Do you mind posting a link...

Oxandrolone has been shown to improve liver function. The chemical struc has an extra binding atom that is released.

Look it up on publicmed if you cant find it PM me I will dig it up... Bot trying to hijack the thread by getting of on liver function and var, but it does not have a neg effect as aas on function... 1971 there was a study on it that improved impared function

Post it... That's good info.

I wouldn't call it a thread hijack... I'd call it education

[peachfuzz]

shakes head at thread*

[Dancer]

Post it... That's good info.

I wouldn't call it a thread hijack... I'd call it education

http://forums.steroid.com/archive/in...p/t-53481.html

<<< A basis for safe use but does not measure improvement

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

<<< the third study down the page but the site is down.


let see the pubmed one hold onnnnnnn....

Cant find the exact one but I got a cool one I'll post it in a thread...