DHEA and Pregnenolone -Swifto

[Swifto]

DHEA (The Mother of all Sex Hormones) and Pregnenolone (GrandMother of all Sex Hormones)


When the HPTA is shutdown, from the use of exogenous androgens, DHEA and Pregnenolone are also shutdown. So if your on cycle or on HRT/TRT, you should be replacing DHEA and Pregnenolone. Many petients on HRT are put on around 50mg/ED DHEA and around 25mg/ED Pregnenolone by their Endo's, exactly for this reason.

DHEA will improve immune function, insulin sensitivity, cognitive function and labido in males. So if you feel like any of the above are missing and your on cycle or HRT or in PCT, try supplementing 50mg/ED DHEA. It also needs to be split into 2 25mg doses due to its short half-life.

For the most effective way of using DHEA, it should be used as a transdermal cream/gel. But using it orally will work, but its not as effective, to my knowledge, as transdermal carriers. Within 2 weeks of oral DHEA administration, serum DHEA levels were restored in this study.

We use DHEA on cycle, during HRT or during PCT becuase,

"This is to help "back fill" the hormonal pathways disrupted by the secondary hypogonadism induced when we supplement testosterone." - Dr. Crisler (Swale)


So as you can see, supplementing both DHEA and Pregnenolone have MANY benifits. They should both be used on cycle, on HRT or during PCT IMHO. If your still not convinced, here are some more facts about DHEA and Preg:

- DHEA is also bioidentical (is natural). So, it will not reduce the bodies own DHEA levels. (Edit: I'm no longer so sure on this one. Thats why it should be used ONLY when endogenous DHEA levels are low)
- Supplemeting DHEA "off cycle" will not raise endogenous testosetrone in males.

- Using high amounts of DHEA on cycle, or on HRT will increase estrogen levels (estrone).

- DHEA is produced in the adrenal cortex of the brain and testes

- Most abundant steroid hormone

- The body converts cholesterol - pregnenolone - DHEA - androstenedione - testosetrone

- Low levels of DHEA have been linked to: Obesity (type II diabetes), immunne dysfunction, autoimmune disease, cancer, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, depression, loss of labido, erectile dysfunction and osteoporosis.


The following information has been compilled by my own research and correspondance with Dr. Crisler (Swale) who is an Endocrinologist.

For more information on DHEA, Pregnenolone, here (http://www.professionalmuscle.com/DheaPregMelatonin.ppt) is a powerpoint seminar Dr.Crisler gave on DHEA, Pregnenolone and Melatonin.

This is also very informative: http://www.ithyroid.com/dhea.htm

[sigman roid]

Very intresting swifto good read bro

[lovbyts]

Good write up. I guess it's a good think I have been taking DHEA while on HRT but it's only pill form. I had not hear of it in cream form.

[CaliPhotog]

I never knew DHEA has a short half life. SWIFTO how short is it? How often should it be taken if you are doing 4 oral doses of 25mg each?

[stpete]

Nice. I haven't ever heard of it in cream form either. I'll have to look that up. The stuff's cheap too.

[Swifto]

I never knew DHEA has a short half life. SWIFTO how short is it? How often should it be taken if you are doing 4 oral doses of 25mg each?

Its short enough for Endo's, including Dr.Crisler, to warrant splitting the dose 2x per day.

[marcus300]

This is very interesting and after reading all the links I am convinced its worth trying, been on HRT now for over 3 yrs and will be supplementing with the above two products very soon.

Any links to where is best for prices in the UK swifto?

[Swifto]

This is very interesting and after reading all the links I am convinced its worth trying, been on HRT now for over 3 yrs and will be supplementing with the above two products very soon.

Any links to where is best for prices in the UK swifto?

If your on HRT, I'm surprised you havent been supplementing DHEA/Preg. Naughty doc!

No links my friend. Its probably worth asking your Endo/Doc and getting a script for a transdermal cream/gel.

See this too Marcus: http://www. professional muscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/ 33093-dhea-wow.html

Read Swale (Dr.Crisler's) posts.

[Hazard]

Nice write up as usual man..... very interesting.

~Haz~

[Swifto]

It seems DHEA can elevate DHT levels a fair bit and cause prostate problems in those prone. So, Saw Palmetto may be a good addittion. DHEA also elevates estrogen (Estrone, E1) so this may also contribute to the prostate issues as E is a major contributer, just like DHT.

[Swifto]

It also seems oral administraion of DHEA is fairly bioavailable. But for optimal effectiveness, a transdermal carrier is advised.

Morales AJ, Nolan JJ, Nelson JC et al. Effects of replacement dose of dehydroepiandrosterone in men and women of advancing age. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1994; 78:1360-7.

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, crossover trial, 30 patients ages 40-70 years were given 50 mg of DHEA orally daily. Within two weeks, this dose restored serum DHEA levels in both men and women to those found in young adults.

[Swifto]

DHEA supplemtation will NOT increase endogenous testosterone if your not on cycle. Just to clarify:



1: J Appl Physiol. 1999 Dec;87(6):2274-83.

Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men.

Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Sharp RL, Reifenrath TA, Parsons KA, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.

This study examined the effects of acute dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) ingestion on serum steroid hormones and the effect of chronic DHEA intake on the adaptations to resistance training. In 10 young men (23 +/- 4 yr old), ingestion of 50 mg of DHEA increased serum androstenedione concentrations 150% within 60 min (P < 0.05) but did not affect serum testosterone and estrogen concentrations. An additional 19 men (23 +/- 1 yr old) participated in an 8-wk whole body resistance-training program and ingested DHEA (150 mg/day, n = 9) or placebo (n = 10) during weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8. Serum androstenedione concentrations were significantly (P < 0.05) increased in the DHEA-treated group after 2 and 5 wk. Serum concentrations of free and total testosterone, estrone, estradiol, estriol, lipids, and liver transaminases were unaffected by supplementation and training, while strength and lean body mass increased significantly and similarly (P < 0.05) in the men treated with placebo and DHEA. These results suggest that DHEA ingestion does not enhance serum testosterone concentrations or adaptations associated with resistance training in young men.

[Hazard]

LMAO I read a new post by you in this thread.... click out..... and it shows theres another new post. Happed 3 times now lolol

great info man
~Haz~

[bnjf]

Primordiol Performance makes 1-t. A topical Dhea/Pregnenolone

[Swifto]

Primordiol Performance makes 1-t. A topical Dhea/Pregnenolone

I think their Dermacrine also contains DHEA and Preg.

There is NO REASON to use DHEA, unless your on cycle, on HRT, deficient with age/disease or PCT. A low dose would be a good addittion to PCT IMHO.

This thread is aimed at those on HRT, on cycle or are deficient enough in DHEA due to age.

For those even on forms of Testosterone for lengthy peroids, you can still experience loss of labido, well being, immune function, so supplementing DHEA/Preg should really help.

[Swifto]

LMAO I read a new post by you in this thread.... click out..... and it shows theres another new post. Happed 3 times now lolol

great info man
~Haz~

Just be adding a few things...

[marcus300]

If your on HRT, I'm surprised you havent been supplementing DHEA/Preg. Naughty doc!

No links my friend. Its probably worth asking your Endo/Doc and getting a script for a transdermal cream/gel.

See this too Marcus: http://www. professional muscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/ 33093-dhea-wow.html

Read Swale (Dr.Crisler's) posts.

I know alot of guys in the UK whoare on HRT but none are supplementing with these, strange but true!

You feel cream is better than tabs?

[Swifto]

I know alot of guys in the UK whoare on HRT but none are supplementing with these, strange but true!

You feel cream is better than tabs?

Both seem to be effective.

The study above brought normal levels of DHEA in 2 weeks when supplemented orally. So, cream or tabs, the difference is marginal.

Tabs would probably be eaiser... I'd go with them and see how you get on...

Swale doesnt use transdermal because it throws urine tests off when he does them. But if it wasnt for that, he'd use trans.

[Swifto]

I know alot of guys in the UK whoare on HRT but none are supplementing with these, strange but true!You feel cream is better than tabs?

If you turn into a raging, ****ing 20 year old kid again after this, who thinks he owns the world?!

I want some sort of monetary credit!!

[marcus300]

If you turn into a raging, ****ing 20 year old kid again after this, who thinks he owns the world?!

I want some sort of monetary credit!!

I feel around 25yrs old so if you can cut that to 20yr old i would be very greatful and i mean VERY greatful x lol

cheeky fuking kid!!

[Swifto]

I feel around 25yrs old so if you can cut that to 20yr old i would be very greatful and i mean VERY greatful x lol

cheeky fuking kid!!

ha ha ha...

[LiftedDuramax2007]

good read thanks!!!!

[BJJ]

So basically you are saying that also people who run a simple test cycle should implement their stack with either DHEA and Pregnenolone...?

[Swifto]

For longer cycles labido, energy can drop. Adding DHEA can really help things.

[Ripped Mass]

I was very close to picking some DHEA in my local grocery store but did a little research first and had a slight change of heart. It is weird because last couple cycles I ran I feel like Im horny but when it comes time to do the deed not really feeling it, and erections not always as good as when I'm off, so that's why I thought this might help. Bullshit you are supposed to be a boning machine while "on"! Well I came across this:

"In theory, DHEA may increase the risk of developing prostate, breast, or ovarian cancer. DHEA may contribute to tamoxifen resistance in breast cancer. Other side effects may include insomnia, agitation, delusions, mania, nervousness, irritability, or psychosis" http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...ient-dhea.html

Yes I know it says women but might have same effect in men. I just started my cycle and am taking 20mg nolva/day. Well if DHEA can give you gyno from raised estrogen what if it cancel's out my nolva then I grow some TITS!? Please shed some light on this Swifto.

Also can you get Pregnenolone at any supp store? I have never seen it, but seen DHEA everywhere! Did you know DHEA was a controlled/banned substance I think in 1994, then was reinstated later? Pretty sure that's accurate read that somewhere as well.

[goose]

I feel around 25yrs old so if you can cut that to 20yr old i would be very greatful and i mean VERY greatful x lol

cheeky fuking kid!!

I know these bloody kids these days.

Cheeky bleeders...

[BG]

Sounds like to me it would make side effects worst, primarly estrogen. Then you will have to take something for estrogen and something incase of prostate problems ect, ect. Before you know it your taking 5 more chems, making your cycle more toxic. Just saying , I like to take the least chems possible, more chems = more sides.

[Swifto]

I was very close to picking some DHEA in my local grocery store but did a little research first and had a slight change of heart. It is weird because last couple cycles I ran I feel like Im horny but when it comes time to do the deed not really feeling it, and erections not always as good as when I'm off, so that's why I thought this might help. Bullshit you are supposed to be a boning machine while "on"! Well I came across this:

"In theory, DHEA may increase the risk of developing prostate, breast, or ovarian cancer. DHEA may contribute to tamoxifen resistance in breast cancer. Other side effects may include insomnia, agitation, delusions, mania, nervousness, irritability, or psychosis" http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...ient-dhea.html

Yes I know it says women but might have same effect in men. I just started my cycle and am taking 20mg nolva/day. Well if DHEA can give you gyno from raised estrogen what if it cancel's out my nolva then I grow some TITS!? Please shed some light on this Swifto.

Also can you get Pregnenolone at any supp store? I have never seen it, but seen DHEA everywhere! Did you know DHEA was a controlled/banned substance I think in 1994, then was reinstated later? Pretty sure that's accurate read that somewhere as well.

DHEA will raise E2. DHEA and DHEAs will convert to androstenedione (4-dione) and then into potent androgens and estrogens in peripheral tissues.

I think caution should be used when supplementing DHEA. I cycle and dont seem to lose sex drive, energy levels even upto 16 weeks on cycle. If you do lose any of testosterone 's effects, adding DHEA can help.

I'm saying this is more of a treatment, than a preventative measure when supplementing DHEA.

[Garbanzo Dude]

Great post Swifto, this needs to be a sticky!!

My doc also pointed that DHEA will raise E2, so keeping a good anti-e diet and perhaps running an ai like a-dex every 3-4 days would be good idea on TRT. Any input of the oxo version for TRT or cycle maintenance? I know if works for fat loss, but was wondering about any other benefits during cycle TRT