Test E & Winny

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 12:13 AM

21
3rd cycle
5'10
190 lbs
14% bf
lifting seriously last 3 years, on and off for 6
About to start my 3rd cycle. First two were just Test C. Now have Test E and Winstrol (oral 40mgs) How do I stack them? Weeks 1-6 Test, weeks 6-10 Test and winny? Then when does my PCT (Nolva and clomid) begin? 14 days after last pin? Confused on this point, as I have seen that winny only cycles pct beings the next day? Have been told to take half the winny tab in the morning, and the other half right before workout. Any and all help would be great. Thanks.

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 01:45 AM

21 and on your third cycle? damn...

If you want to see any benefit out of winstrol other then strength gains your gonna need to drop some bodyfat prior to starting the cycle....

**BennyLom** · 10-04-2009, 05:57 AM

Why don't you do Test E for 8 weeks (week 1-8) and run Stanozol for the last 5 weeks (week 4-8),making your cycle 8 weeks total.

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 07:59 AM

Mainly what I'm concerned with is how the PCT lines up. If I finished the cycle with winny, do I just start the PCT on the Test E schedule? Stop both of them at the same time and wait the two weeks before the Nolva and Clomid?

**marcus300** · 10-04-2009, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by noclue

21
3rd cycle
5'10
190 lbs
14% bf
lifting seriously last 3 years, on and off for 6
About to start my 3rd cycle. First two were just Test C. Now have Test E and Winstrol (oral 40mgs) How do I stack them? Weeks 1-6 Test, weeks 6-10 Test and winny? Then when does my PCT (Nolva and clomid) begin? 14 days after last pin? Confused on this point, as I have seen that winny only cycles pct beings the next day? Have been told to take half the winny tab in the morning, and the other half right before workout. Any and all help would be great. Thanks.

Originally Posted by noclue

Mainly what I'm concerned with is how the PCT lines up. If I finished the cycle with winny, do I just start the PCT on the Test E schedule? Stop both of them at the same time and wait the two weeks before the Nolva and Clomid?

What you want to be concerned with is your natural testosterone , 21yrs old and on your 3rd cycle is very very reckless.

Have you had any blood work done?

Do you know the damage you could of done?

Why use at such a young age when you could make excellent gains with what you got naturally?

**Aizen Sosuke** · 10-04-2009, 08:04 AM

Test E weeks 1-12
Winny weeks 9-14
PCT starts week 15 day after last winny pill
PS slow down dude

**dec11** · 10-04-2009, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by BennyLom

Why don't you do Test E for 8 weeks (week 1-8) and run Stanozol for the last 5 weeks (week 4-8),making your cycle 8 weeks total.

8wks too short for test e!!

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Aizen Sosuke

Test E weeks 1-12
Winny weeks 9-14
PCT starts week 15 day after last winny pill
PS slow down dude

Thanks, this is what I was looking for, appreciate the response.

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

21 and on your third cycle? damn...

If you want to see any benefit out of winstrol other then strength gains your gonna need to drop some bodyfat prior to starting the cycle....

Originally Posted by marcus300

What you want to be concerned with is your natural testosterone , 21yrs old and on your 3rd cycle is very very reckless.

Have you had any blood work done?

Do you know the damage you could of done?

Why use at such a young age when you could make excellent gains with what you got naturally?

what do we know?

you dont want to hear it and thats fine. dont gripe to us when your on trt before your 30

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

What you want to be concerned with is your natural testosterone , 21yrs old and on your 3rd cycle is very very reckless.

Have you had any blood work done?

Do you know the damage you could of done?

Why use at such a young age when you could make excellent gains with what you got naturally?

No, to bloodwork, and it being "reckless" is a subjective statement. I had a much more experienced bodybuilder looking out for me as I cycled the first two times, have done my research on PCT to ensure I do it properly (what I can't find already written I ask here, hence the post) and diet and lift accordingly. As for "excellent gains" age does not necessarly preclude "excellent gains". Genetics also play a large role in this, and those not blessed with a great body type predisposed to gaining muscle often have to seek other means to help. I am not arguing that juice should be used as a shortcut by any average joe, but I am saying using responsibly to accomplish gains that might otherwise to be outside the realm of realistic should not be an idea foreign to some like you, who clearly frequents a board dedicated to the use of AAS. I appreciate the concern, but in response to a post such as the one I made to open this thread, you would be better off answering the question at hand in order to ensure I do it properly, rather than simply lecturing, if you truly cared about my safety that is. You are not going to convince me not to do it, so it would befit me greatly for someone of your experience to tell me how to do it as safely as possible.

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

what do we know?

you dont want to hear it and thats fine. dont gripe to us when your on trt before your 30

I'm not saying I don't want to hear it, I am turning to you guys for answers, clearly I want to hear it. But what I am looking for is help, not a sermon. Help me do it right then, don't just sit there and critisize. Tell me how to do it, don't tell me not to do it.

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

21 and on your third cycle? damn...

If you want to see any benefit out of winstrol other then strength gains your gonna need to drop some bodyfat prior to starting the cycle....

This is the other thing I don't understand, first of all, strength gains are great, that's part of what I am looking for. Also it increases cardio capabilities, then it would make it excellent for boosting high intensity cardio workouts right? So I understand that using it won't take me down to 4% bf over night, but it will help in dropping it, and since I am not a bodybuilder preparing for a contest that's fine, and I don't see why using something to avoid bloating and extra body fat retention while running test is such a bad thing? Also, as a side note, please don't take anything I am saying as argumentative, defensive or against what you are all telling me. I clearly respect this site, and look for answers in the wealth of knowledge that frequents these boards.

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by noclue

No, to bloodwork, and it being "reckless" is a subjective statement. I had a much more experienced bodybuilder looking out for me as I cycled the first two times, have done my research on PCT to ensure I do it properly (what I can't find already written I ask here, hence the post) and diet and lift accordingly. As for "excellent gains" age does not necessarly preclude "excellent gains". Genetics also play a large role in this, and those not blessed with a great body type predisposed to gaining muscle often have to seek other means to help. I am not arguing that juice should be used as a shortcut by any average joe, but I am saying using responsibly to accomplish gains that might otherwise to be outside the realm of realistic should not be an idea foreign to some like you, who clearly frequents a board dedicated to the use of AAS. I appreciate the concern, but in response to a post such as the one I made to open this thread, you would be better off answering the question at hand in order to ensure I do it properly, rather than simply lecturing, if you truly cared about my safety that is. You are not going to convince me not to do it, so it would befit me greatly for someone of your experience to tell me how to do it as safely as possible.

just like every other invincible 21 year old. you only want to hear what you want. someone who you knowingly admit has more knowledge and experience then you tells you what is best for you and you dont want to listen. thats your problem not his. youll learn the hard way i guess, but neither him or I are going to assist you in harming yourself. Im going to assume with your weak argument of genetics you have reached your peak already correct? at 21 years old i must say that is impressive, something any "average joe" should aspire towards.

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:35 PM

Ha come on Peachfuzz, you are acting like I am personally insulting your judgement, which I'm not. But what I am asking for is help. You are saying you aren't going to help me hurt myself, great, thank you, that's why I am here, so I don't hurt myself. I'm looking to the gear gurus to make sure I do it right and don't get hurt. Knowledge is what I'm looking for, not a fight. And as for the genetics, no, I'm sure I haven't reached my peak, but who really has? How many people on here are actually as far as they can go naturally before turning to AAS? I would guess very very few How can you judge me for wanting to attain results just because I'm relatively young?

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by noclue

This is the other thing I don't understand, first of all, strength gains are great, that's part of what I am looking for. Also it increases cardio capabilities, then it would make it excellent for boosting high intensity cardio workouts right?so does cardio? probably a better option then winstrol So I understand that using it won't take me down to 4% bf over night, but it will help in dropping it, and since I am not a bodybuilder preparing for a contest that's fine,then what the hell is the hurry?its called diet and cardio if thats your goal. and I don't see why using something to avoid bloating and extra body fat retention while running test is such a bad thing?oh ok thats a good reason to run it the last 4 weeks of the test cycle....ever hear of an AI? Also, as a side note, please don't take anything I am saying as argumentative, defensive or against what you are all telling me. I clearly respect this site, and look for answers in the wealth of knowledge that frequents these boards.

well first of all the way you proposed to run the cycle had 5 weeks of winny (at a low dose of 40mg) listed and the way outlined had 6 weeks. better make sure you have enough to begin with. second of all see bold...

**ythrashin** · 10-04-2009, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Aizen Sosuke

Test E weeks 1-12
Winny weeks 9-14
PCT starts week 15 day after last winny pill
PS slow down dude

Go with this recommendation^^^^

We can debate if its moral,right or bad idea for him to run a cycle all damn day and into night. Dude is a adult and will do whatever he wants..he's made his decision. At least tell him how to do it "Right"... He may regret it later in life and he'll have to live with that regret...

Now lets debate if we should give him advice...right? I've seen this time and time again...

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by noclue

Ha come on Peachfuzz, you are acting like I am personally insulting your judgement, which I'm not. I appreciate what your saying but you are insulting our judgment by insisting on doping a third cycle at 21. But what I am asking for is help. You are saying you aren't going to help me hurt myself, great, thank you, that's why I am here, so I don't hurt myself. I'm looking to the gear gurus to make sure I do it right and don't get hurt.there is no way to do it right at your age, thats what you need to understand Knowledge is what I'm looking for, not a fight. And as for the genetics, no, I'm sure I haven't reached my peak, but who really has? How many people on here are actually as far as they can go naturally before turning to AAS? i understand this, and likely very few will, but at 21 you have not even close to needing a third cycle. you havnt even made half of an effort I would guess very very few How can you judge me for wanting to attain results just because I'm relatively young?becuase your being impatient

bold

and i am not trying to attack you but it seems you are having a hard time grasping a very basic fact...

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:48 PM

I do cardio, believe me, 4 days a week of high intensity, on top of 6 days a week of weights. I do watch my diet, and yes, I have heard of an AI, but I figured why use letro or provirin or something like that, when I can use something that serves the same effect,and increases strength? I have enough to run it correctly, I just need the know how

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

Go with this recommendation^^^^

We can debate if its moral,right or bad idea for him to run a cycle all damn day and into night. Dude is a adult and will do whatever he wants..he's made his decision. At least tell him how to do it "Right"... He may regret it later in life and he'll have to live with that regret...

Now lets debate if we should give him advice...right? I've seen this time and time again...

you are hardly an adult at 21 first off. and ill say again there is no "right way" to do it at 21. what about that is hard to understand?

so you say its ok to help someone hurt themselves as long as they harm themselves correctly?

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by noclue

I do cardio, believe me, 4 days a week of high intensity, on top of 6 days a week of weights. I do watch my diet, and yes, I have heard of an AI, but I figured why use letro or provirin or something like that, when I can use something that serves the same effect,and increases strength? I have enough to run it correctly, I just need the know how

perfect. now all you need to do is repeat for a few more years.

good luck with your decision. ill be here to say i told you so.

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:53 PM

I'm not insulting your judgement, I understand your point, but mine is I am going to be impatient, and I am going to do it anyway, so please help me. I have made an effort, and I continue to make the effort, I'm not injecting and eating doritos. I work my ass off, outside of work and school, lifting is my only pastime. This is not something I take lightly. And if there is no right way to do it at 21, help me do it the least harmful way at 21

**noclue** · 10-04-2009, 08:55 PM

See now you are coming off as pompous and self rightous. At first it seemed that you cared about someone not hurting themselves. Now you seem to only care about playing holier than thou. Come on man, get off your high horse. Don't sit around and wait to say "I told you so", how does that make anything better?

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 08:59 PM

noclue you have a pm. im done with this thread. im too holy for this

**ythrashin** · 10-04-2009, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

you are hardly an adult at 21 first off. and ill say again there is no "right way" to do it at 21. what about that is hard to understand?

so you say its ok to help someone hurt themselves as long as they harm themselves correctly?

You arent an adult at 21.? Ok whatever... There may not be a "right way" but there is a "better way".

No its no ok to "help" someone hurt themselves.

But ask yourself this question... Is it right to not tell someone how to do something correctly to prevent some of that "hurt"?It may hurt them either way, but less one way rather then the other....

Its not always black and white my friend.... There are shades of gray....

**ythrashin** · 10-04-2009, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by noclue

See now you are coming off as pompous and self rightous. At first it seemed that you cared about someone not hurting themselves. Now you seem to only care about playing holier than thou. Come on man, get off your high horse. Don't sit around and wait to say "I told you so", how does that make anything better?

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

noclue you have a pm. im done with this thread. im too holy for this

You two are taking this shit way to personally. You both need to chill...

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

You arent an adult at 21.? Ok whatever... There may not be a "right way" but there is a "better way".

No its no ok to "help" someone hurt themselves.

But ask yourself this question... Is it right to not tell someone how to do something correctly to prevent some of that "hurt"?It may hurt them either way, but less one way rather then the other....

Its not always black and white my friend.... There are shades of gray....

I understand. however, to answer your question, yes, i do feel it is wrong to help someone hurt themselves "less" rather then trying to prevent them from doing it in the first place.

**ythrashin** · 10-04-2009, 09:17 PM

Trying to prevent is good...

Sometimes there is no preventing...just lessening the damage.

We can debate and philosophize about this subject all night and still not reach a common ground.

Its like debating politics or religion....

Just do whatever you personal ethics,morals and judgment tells you to do. Its all good just try not to take it personal.

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

You two are taking this shit way to personally. You both need to chill...

Originally Posted by ythrashin

Trying to prevent is good...

Sometimes there is no preventing...just lessening the damage.

We can debate and philosophize about this subject all night and still not reach a common ground.

Its like debating politics or religion....

Just do whatever you personal ethics,morals and judgment tells you to do. Its all good just try not to take it personal.

I agree. and nothing personal here. the pm was nothing negative and my responses are derived from the smart ass in me.

**Shadman05** · 10-04-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

just like every other invincible 21 year old. you only want to hear what you want. someone who you knowingly admit has more knowledge and experience then you tells you what is best for you and you dont want to listen. thats your problem not his. youll learn the hard way i guess, but neither him or I are going to assist you in harming yourself. Im going to assume with your weak argument of genetics you have reached your peak already correct? at 21 years old i must say that is impressive, something any "average joe" should aspire towards.

I hit my "peak" at age 22 after working out for a year and half...

**peachfuzz** · 10-04-2009, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shadman05

I hit my "peak" at age 22 after working out for a year and half...

you should post up some pics man. i bet you look incredible

**Shadman05** · 10-05-2009, 04:41 AM

Peachfuzz- went from 170 to 225 and bodyfat 16% to 8%

**DOM6** · 10-11-2009, 03:53 PM

31 posts and the only thing this kid was told was hes to young, lol
good job guys

**DOM6** · 10-11-2009, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

You arent an adult at 21.? Ok whatever... There may not be a "right way" but there is a "better way".

No its no ok to "help" someone hurt themselves.

But ask yourself this question... Is it right to not tell someone how to do something correctly to prevent some of that "hurt"?It may hurt them either way, but less one way rather then the other....

Its not always black and white my friend.... There are shades of gray....

^^^ I love this guy, Thankyou