Gyno 3 months after my last shot Plz help

**Dave1622** · 12-07-2009, 08:47 AM

Hey Guys
I need some help

During my last cycle I did
12 weeks of

Week 1-12 500mg/EW of Test Cyp
Week 3-12 70mg/ED of Anavar
Week 8-12 75mg/EOD of Tren ACE

Also toke Arimidex with every test Cyp Shot

The last 4 weeks of my cycle After I started to take Tren I got Gyno
My nip where every sensitive and itch

So I started taking Nolvadex until it was gone

Now All was good, I was done my cycle no sign of Gyno

About 1 month ago I took Trib to help my sex drive
And I broke out with Zits mostly on my legs so i stopped Trib

My 2 weeks ago my nips Have been getting very sensitive and almost hurt but no itch

Now I did some blood work and I took an appointment for Ultra sound

I got My results back for the blood work
I told the doctor about the Gyno she said looks fine
I asked that I get my Test level check and Estro levels
She told me that she wont check my Estro levels and would only do free test level

So I did and she said everything looks fine

for free test I got 29.2 Out of the Reference Range of 15.6 -146 PMOL/L
And Prolactin 7.8 out of the reference range of 2.6 - 13.1 UG/L

Dunno But Free test look s really low NO ??

So for now I need help Is it possible to get Gyno Of Cycle its been over 3 months now since my last shot of test

What should I do should I wait to get my Ultra sound before I start taking anything like Nolvadex or something else ?

Has anyone had this happen to them?
Gyno months after a cycle was done?

Thanks in advance for any advice

**chuckt12345** · 12-07-2009, 08:51 AM

yes its possible,, when you take somethign that alters your hormones you can always have problems down the road. Are you sure its gyno and your not just being paranoid?

**Kibble** · 12-07-2009, 08:54 AM

They call it "Rebound Gyno"

**Kibble** · 12-07-2009, 08:55 AM

I have no experience with Tren , but isn't Nolva discouraged while running Tren? I thought that I have read that a few times

**Dave1622** · 12-07-2009, 11:32 AM

I have my appointment today For the Ultra Sound
Will see what they say I still have some Nolvadex at home But I just don't want to have this problem come back in 3 months again

What about my TEST Levels thats Very Low NO???

**J-Dogg** · 12-07-2009, 09:06 PM

8 years ago, I had the same exact thing happen from a Tren only cycle, I've stayed away with nor19's since then.

This is the first I've read about someone else having the same problem I did though. I did not cycle for 5 years after that but have over the last 3. When I started to cycle, it actually seemed to help.

Your test levels are certainly on the low level, how old are you?

People will tell you Tren + Nova = bad. I'm not sure but maybe someone can chime in here?

Seems like when your nips are sensitive, or sore, it's probably estrogen binding to the receptors around your breast. Seems like a SERM would compete for these estrogen receptors, and not allow the estrogen to bind.

Nova, is the strongest SERM there is, short of Falsodex if you have 1.2k laying around to get a few of those.

I can't honestly give you sound advice, but personally I would be taking 20 mgs of Nova every 12 hours.

**J-Dogg** · 12-07-2009, 09:11 PM

What did you run for PCT also?

I'm a little confused too, did the gyno develop during the last 4 weeks? or 3 months after the last shot?

Was the Tren A converted from Fina Pellets?

**J-Dogg** · 12-07-2009, 09:11 PM

Oh, and why would your doctor NOT check your estrogen levels if you are complaining of sore nipples? Hello?

**Dave1622** · 12-08-2009, 10:27 AM

Hey Guy

J Dogg
I'm 27

For PCT I ran Nolvadex and testosterone tapering protocol

I Got the first sign of Gyno During the last 4 weeks of my 12 weeks cycle around the same time I started Tren .

And My Doc She said Your a guy and we wont do and Estrogen Test First lets do Dlood work and Ultra Sound

Update yesterday I did The Ultra sound
So Ultrasound it will take 2 weeks to get the results and Also I went to see a Male doctor to talk about my Blood work

And wow Canada Needs help with its Doctors I'm sure they have good intentions but they should get more informed

I told the The New Doc What was happening That I did a cycle in the summer and He did a feel the chest test said looks fine and to wait and everything will be fine in a couple of weeks and if in 1 month its still there to come back

And about my Test Levels he said that if you in between the ranges its normal
I told him Well I'm only double the lowest amount nothing normal about that
He said nothing can be done if its between the Ranges
29.2 Out of the Reference Range of 15.6 -146 PMOL/L (NOT Normal to me

So for now What do you guys think
Should I run PCT do Nolvadex and Clomid to get my levels back ?

Or should I wait for the Ultra sound ?
I just don't want the problem to get worst

Thanks

**Dave1622** · 12-08-2009, 01:09 PM

From what I read on this Site there are people who get Estrogen Bounce back or "Rebound Gyno"

And that also if you had this gyno for awhile now it is almost impossible to get rid of without surgery. That once gyno hardens into a disk under your nipple surgery is the only success. So do you guys think I should wait to see the Ultra sound Results that will take 2 more weeks or should I start PCT with Nolvadex and Clomid?

Its just its been over 2 weeks already and I don't want it to get worst by waiting another 2 weeks

ALSO Today it feels like I have a small hard round balls on the outside of my felt nipple Just left on the nipple starting to develop

Please any advice from anyone that has had this problem please advice .

Thanks guys for all the help

**mtsoul32** · 12-08-2009, 03:46 PM

I have had gyno for 5months or what im pretty sure is gyno cause my symptoms seem very similar to yours as I have a tiny ball it feels liuke under my left nipple. I had got an Ultra Sound but the results came back clean and said there was nothing to worry about.. but I still have these lump like feelings behind my nips.. I don't know if it's to late to try the letro out or if I should just go back to the doc and be honest about what I took and see what he says. I have been told to wait but then again the longer I wait the worse it could get so I went ahead and got the letro/novla not sure if it will help me though cause I have had the minor swelling for some time now..

**darkcrayz** · 12-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

From what I read on this Site there are people who get Estrogen Bounce back or "Rebound Gyno"

And that also if you had this gyno for awhile now it is almost impossible to get rid of without surgery. That once gyno hardens into a disk under your nipple surgery is the only success. So do you guys think I should wait to see the Ultra sound Results that will take 2 more weeks or should I start PCT with Nolvadex and Clomid?

Its just its been over 2 weeks already and I don't want it to get worst by waiting another 2 weeks

ALSO Today it feels like I have a small hard round balls on the outside of my felt nipple Just left on the nipple starting to develop

Please any advice from anyone that has had this problem please advice .

Thanks guys for all the help

if its prolactin based gyno you need caber/bromo, if its estrogen then letro should kill it.

you need to find a new dr that knows/understands steriods . even if its in the normal ranges if its low it can be an issue. find a new dr.

your prolactin levels could be a bit high based on the lab work. i would lean towards caber since you said it showed up while you were running tren , not test solo.

what was your pct again?

the dr's arent helping and you already got bloodwork done. you can hope on letro/nolva or caber and if the first doesnt work then switch to the other.

and find a new new dr.

**Bonaparte** · 12-08-2009, 04:27 PM

I would run 50mg of Clomid for a few weeks and see if that helps. Avoid Nolva, as it can aggravate prolactin gyno.

**darkcrayz** · 12-08-2009, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

I would run 50mg of Clomid for a few weeks and see if that helps. Avoid Nolva, as it can aggravate prolactin gyno.

which would you say he should try first, letro or caber to see which type of gyno base it is?

**Bonaparte** · 12-08-2009, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Nova, is the strongest SERM there is, short of Falsodex if you have 1.2k laying around to get a few of those.

Not really. Raloxifene is the best SERM for fighting/preventing gyno. And Clomid is generally more effective at restoring the HPTA. Nolva is mainly popular because it does both fairly well with little side effects.
And I don't know anything about Faslodex, but the cost makes it a bit irrelevant for now.

**J-Dogg** · 12-08-2009, 05:22 PM

I still think you need a blood test that includes estrogen. From my understanding, taking synthetic test, obviously makes your test levels high and it raises your estrogen levels naturally to keep things on par.

I'd hop on some HCG asap, and start taking some type of SERM in high dosages and tapper off it. If you have Nova today, take it today, I've taken 60mgs a day over 3 doses a day and honestly that helped reduce the size of my gyno when I first got it.

Run that in higher dosages until you feel your nips are not sensitive and then keep on 20mgs a day for the next 30 days. Maybe tapper off that.

If you can get HCG, Try running 300 IUs every 3rd day to see if you can kick in your test levels.

For being 27, I don't feel you should be on the low end of the spectrum of those test ranges. You should be on the higher end, you are in normal range for a 70 year old man probably.

Why are they even having an ultra sound? You told them you were cycling. My doctor put me through a mammogram for christ sakes, lol.

But I think it's save to ASSUME it's high estrogen related problems.

Your prolactin levels are in order, test is low, estrogen we would assume is high.

So I think the best solution would be HCG to restore natural test, and a SERM to prevent estrogen from binding. As far as what SERM to run, NOVA worked better for me personally when I had gyno issues. But I would not be scared to run any SERM at high dosages if I were you.

**Bonaparte** · 12-08-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

So I think the best solution would be HCG to restore natural test, and a SERM to prevent estrogen from binding. As far as what SERM to run, NOVA worked better for me personally when I had gyno issues. But I would not be scared to run any SERM at high dosages if I were you.

hcg does not restore natural test production under these circumstances, it suppresses it.
OP, are your testicles still atrophied? If not, hcg will hurt, not help.

All he needs to do is get his test levels back up, which Clomid would probably do best.
OP, try throwing in a bit of Aromasin . It is unlikely to hurt your recovery, but it does boost test, lower estrogen, and it stacks well with SERMs (unlike Adex and Letro).

**Dave1622** · 12-08-2009, 07:28 PM

Hey Guys thanks for all your help

As Of today I have two small balls One on each nipple and a burning sensation

So This is what im gonna do like J Dogg said
I gonna Take 60mgs of Nolvadex each day
And I will be getting Letro in the next couple of days

This is what I'm planning
Take 60mgs for now until I get the Letro and then

According to C BINO

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

"You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone :estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely. "

So I won't need the Clomid to help my Test levels right?

Nolvadex is better at restoring according to
http://www.steroid.com/Nolvadex.php

So What do you guys think?

Also I will call the Doc office tomorrow and see if they got my results and if they did and say looks fine I'm gonna ask to be sent to a Endocrinologist (Hormon Doctor).

Thanks again guy for any help you can provide

**J-Dogg** · 12-08-2009, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

hcg does not restore natural test production under these circumstances, it suppresses it.
OP, are your testicles still atrophied? If not, hcg will hurt, not help.

All he needs to do is get his test levels back up, which Clomid would probably do best.
OP, try throwing in a bit of Aromasin. It is unlikely to hurt your recovery, but it does boost test, lower estrogen, and it stacks well with SERMs (unlike Adex and Letro).

I don't know if I'm right or not and not arguing or anything.

But HCG triggers your body to start producing natural test again. I don't get into readin the exact names of the hormones, but it signals your nuts to start producing test again, and not everyone gets nut shrink, I don't even on 750mgs of test.

And Clomid is a SERM......i don't think they do anything but bind to your estrogen receptors. As far as I know, it will do nothing for your test levels, or estrogen levels for that matter.

Again, I could be wrong, but this is just what I gather from reading and using the compounds.

**J-Dogg** · 12-08-2009, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

Hey Guys thanks for all your help

As Of today I have two small balls One on each nipple and a burning sensation

So This is what im gonna do like J Dogg said
I gonna Take 60mgs of Nolvadex each day
And I will be getting Letro in the next couple of days

This is what I'm planning
Take 60mgs for now until I get the Letro and then

According to C BINO

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

"You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone :estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely. "

So I won't need the Clomid to help my Test levels right?

Nolvadex is better at restoring according to
http://www.steroid.com/Nolvadex.php

So What do you guys think?

Also I will call the Doc office tomorrow and see if they got my results and if they did and say looks fine I'm gonna ask to be sent to a Endocrinologist (Hormon Doctor).

Thanks again guy for any help you can provide

I'm only speaking from personal expermentation and test on my own gyno....but I've probably dropped over 2k on the AR store and the only thing that ever helped reduce the size of my gyno was Nova....and it came back a few weeks after i got off it.

I spend the most on Letro and it honestly did nothing but kill my sex drive.

I used Nova 20mgs, 3 times a day. I did it based off a medical study, try google "tamox + Gyno" I don't recall the exact article but it was on patients with pubertal gyno.

**Dave1622** · 12-08-2009, 07:42 PM

That’s why I didn't start the Nolvadex 2 weeks ago when I started to feel the sensitivity in my nipples

Because like I said when I was on my last Cycle and I got the sensitivity and the itch I stared to take Nolvadex and everything was fine until now

So I was afraid that Nolva was just a temp Fix and that I might have this problem again in 3 months

**dec11** · 12-08-2009, 08:07 PM

pm swifto, he's the expert on this kinda stuff

**Dave1622** · 12-08-2009, 08:40 PM

Just did but his offline
Thanks Declan11

**dec11** · 12-08-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

Just did but his offline
Thanks Declan11

no prob, yea, its 3am this part of the world lol

**J-Dogg** · 12-08-2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

That’s why I didn't start the Nolvadex 2 weeks ago when I started to feel the sensitivity in my nipples

Because like I said when I was on my last Cycle and I got the sensitivity and the itch I stared to take Nolvadex and everything was fine until now

So I was afraid that Nolva was just a temp Fix and that I might have this problem again in 3 months

the idea behind taking the nova 4 weeks after you are off, is because your estrogen levels are higher at that time, and your body will take time to regulate your hormones. So hopefully you'd have your hormones balanced or close to normal by that time.

During that time, a selective estrogen receptor modulator binds to your estrogen receptor stronger than the estrogen was, so you don't get the gyno issues.

It's also why you would keep it on hand in case you get sore nips during a cycle.

**Bonaparte** · 12-08-2009, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

But HCG triggers your body to start producing natural test again. I don't get into readin the exact names of the hormones, but it signals your nuts to start producing test again, and not everyone gets nut shrink, I don't even on 750mgs of test.

And Clomid is a SERM......i don't think they do anything but bind to your estrogen receptors. As far as I know, it will do nothing for your test levels, or estrogen levels for that matter.

hCG mimics lh coming from the brain, signaling your balls to produce test. Its use is to undo/prevent testicular atrophy, not to boost hpta function. Because it bypasses the brain and causes the testicles to produce test of their own accord, it should be regarded almost as an exogenous source of test, which is why it is suppressive to the hypothalamus and pituitary (but not the testicles).

And SERMs do much more than just block estrogen, they most certainly boost test.

**Swifto** · 12-09-2009, 04:09 AM

For gyno reversal, you can go 3-4 routes.

First off, I'd go with Letro for 5-6 weeks at the maximum dose of 2.5mg/ED but be VERY prepared for sides effects. Loss of sex drive, cholesterol problems, joint pains, reduced immune function etc...Estrogen ablation (zero estrogen) has been proven to cause cell apoptosis/regression.

Then you have SERMs, the best being Rolaxifene (Evista), but its quite hard to obtain. I'd go with 120mg/ED for 3-4 weeks, followed by 60-100mg/ED for 2-3 months. Most clinical data on pubertal gyno concerning Rolax/Tamox is done around 4-8 months.

You could also go with Tamox at 40mg/ED for 3-4 weeks, followed by 20mg/ED.

Adding an AI like Aromasin , or ATD would also be an idea.

Other than that....Surgery.

**Dave1622** · 12-09-2009, 08:04 AM

Thanks Swifto and Everyone else for all your help

Swifto So I can take Nolvadex (Tamox) at 40mg/ED 3- to 4 weeks and the followed by 20mg/ED but for how long should I stay at 20mg/ED ?

And Also the reason I didn't start Molvadex right away is because I was afraid it would only be a temporary fix and I would have to deal with this problem again in a couple of weeks

So how long would you recommend I stay on that does of 20mg/ED after the 4 weeks of 40mg/ED ?

Or should I just stay on Nolvadex Since I stared last night Until I get the Letro?

What option would be best so I don't get the bounce back effect? (Estrogen rebound)

And Also Still have some Arimidex

Thank you for all your help

**Dave1622** · 12-10-2009, 01:27 PM

UPDATE

As of today i have seen 4 doctors and all have said the same thing just to wait I it should fix it self!!!

Now one doctor told me that My test is low because of the 500mg Test Cyp/EW that I was taking for 12 weeks shoot my levels, and to wait and my body should be back in the 80 PMOL/L range

I Also Spoke to a Doctor At my Gym thats been around the game for a long time and I showed him my Blood work and he said That for my age (27) that is low and recommended someone I should call with I will

So As of today I'm on day 3 on Nolvadex 60mg/ED and tomorrow I will start 40mg/ED

Now the pain and burning has gone down and the little balls behind each nipple are still there but not as painful.

I still didn't get the Letro hopefully I should get it tonight.

Now

1. SWIFTO if I stay on Nolvadex for 3-4 week at 40mg/ED how long should I stay on the 20mg/ED after the 3-4week have past to ensure I don't get another Estro rebound

2. And if I start the Letro and stay on it for 5-6 weeks Do I need to take Nolvadex at 20mg/ED for 2 weeks to prevent rebound Like C_BINO recommends ?

3.Should I add Arimidex to option 1 or 2 ?

I just want to minimize the change the I get Estro rebound again later

Thanks again for all your help guys

**Swifto** · 12-10-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

UPDATE

As of today i have seen 4 doctors and all have said the same thing just to wait I it should fix it self!!!

Now one doctor told me that My test is low because of the 500mg Test Cyp/EW that I was taking for 12 weeks shoot my levels, and to wait and my body should be back in the 80 PMOL/L range

I Also Spoke to a Doctor At my Gym thats been around the game for a long time and I showed him my Blood work and he said That for my age (27) that is low and recommended someone I should call with I will

So As of today I'm on day 3 on Nolvadex 60mg/ED and tomorrow I will start 40mg/ED

Now the pain and burning has gone down and the little balls behind each nipple are still there but not as painful.

I still didn't get the Letro hopefully I should get it tonight.

Now

1. SWIFTO if I stay on Nolvadex for 3-4 week at 40mg/ED how long should I stay on the 20mg/ED after the 3-4week have past to ensure I don't get another Estro rebound

2. And if I start the Letro and stay on it for 5-6 weeks Do I need to take Nolvadex at 20mg/ED for 2 weeks to prevent rebound Like C_BINO recommends ?

3.Should I add Arimidex to option 1 or 2 ?

I just want to minimize the change the I get Estro rebound again later

Thanks again for all your help guys

I'd try Letro first at 2.5mg/ED for 5-6 weeks, then taper off slowly over 2-3 weeks. Then Tamox 40mg/ED for 3-4 weeks followed by 20mg/ED for 8 weeks. If you can get Rolaxifene, its better than Tamox as its more active in breast tissue. That would be 120mg/ED for 3-4 weeks and 60mg/ED for 8 weeks IMHO.

**Dave1622** · 01-28-2010, 11:41 AM

Hey Guys
Just wanted to thank everyone again for all the help and to let every one know

That I'm now in week 7 of Nolvadex (Tamox)
I did 4 weeks at 40mg/ED
And now doing 20mg/ED for 8 weeks so total 12weeks
and taking Arimidex EOD

And I think My GINO is 95% gone just a little hard dot on the left side but the sensitivity is 100 gone

Hopefully by the time I'm done it will all be gone

I was thinking of taking Tribulus to help with my sex drive but I don't want to aggravate the situation

What do you guys think

Thanks again

**Bonaparte** · 01-28-2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dave1622

Hey Guys
Just wanted to thank everyone again for all the help and to let every one know

That I'm now in week 7 of Nolvadex (Tamox)
I did 4 weeks at 40mg/ED
And now doing 20mg/ED for 8 weeks so total 12weeks
and taking Arimidex EOD

And I think My GINO is 95% gone just a little hard dot on the left side but the sensitivity is 100 gone

Hopefully by the time I'm done it will all be gone

I was thinking of taking Tribulus to help with my sex drive but I don't want to aggravate the situation

What do you guys think

Thanks again

Stacking Adex with Nolva was a poor choice, as Adex greatly reduces circulating levels of Nolva (or maybe its the other way around). This is another reason why Aromasin is the best AI.