hcg, big dose b4 pct? vets opinions plez

[dec11]

i've been using hcg e5d throughout my sust/dbol cycle, im soon coming off and i have had a bit of shrinkage so should i hit say two 2500iu doses between sust fading out and pct starting, was gona do 2500 and wait 5 days do anotha 2500 and then pct 5 days afta tht, or will it just be a waste? cheers

[dec11]

bump, marcus, BIG?

[Big]

I've heard several people advocate that, although I've never tried it myself. when I run 500iu/e5d I stay full and plump, so I've just run it that way till before pct.

[dec11]

cheers big, i'll give it a blast and share the opinion

[BG]

You should stop hcg two weeks prior to pct because it can keep yo surpressed. Also yor supposed to run nolva with hcg during pct to stop the negative feedback loop.

[dec11]

You should stop hcg two weeks prior to pct because it can keep yo surpressed. Also yor supposed to run nolva with hcg during pct to stop the negative feedback loop.

cheers BG, yeah will be running the nolva, had been advised by a longterm user tht 5 days afta last hcg shot was optimal for startn pct? half life being 24-36hrs

[Swifto]

You should stop hcg two weeks prior to pct because it can keep yo surpressed. Also yor supposed to run nolva with hcg during pct to stop the negative feedback loop.

Tamox wont prevent the negative feedback loop. Not much will infact. Clomid has been shown too, when small doses of Test are used. AI's can in theory and opoid antagonists.

HCG should be stopped proir to PCT as it may suppress endogenous LH.

Too much HCG (more than 500ius) may increase estrogen and progesterone too much, hindering recovery.

Tamox can be used with HCG to prevent desensitisation and the conversion from T to 17-OHP. The study is on 40mg/ED Tamox.

250ius 2-3 times a week during your cycle, stop when you stop your androgens, then begin PCT with SERMs.

[M302_Imola]

250ius 2-3 times a week during your cycle, stop when you stop your androgens, then begin PCT with SERMs.

So if you are running Test E, you stop taking HCG (along w/ the test e) 2 weeks prior to PCT? I always thought you ran the HCG right up until PCT?

[Swifto]

So if you are running Test E, you stop taking HCG (along w/ the test e) 2 weeks prior to PCT? I always thought you ran the HCG right up until PCT?

It doesnt make much sense to run the HCG too long leading to PCT when exogenous androgen levels are on the decline IMHO. Thats using a long ester like Enanthate or Cypionate .

Using HCG will spike endogenous testosterone production, progesterone and estrogen. Too much of any will inhibit the HPTA. Too much testosterone and it will cause negative feedback. Too much estrogen will inhibit the hypothalamus and can impair the leydig cells ability to produce testosterone. Too much progesterone will also inhibit the hypothalamus.

Endogenous testosterone production cannot begin until exogenous androgen levels are practically zero (near hypogondal). Thats what an Endo told me.

If your using a long ester, you should inject the HCG a few days proir to your final shot, then stop IMHO. Wait 14-16 days, then begin PCT with SERMs. Running the AI (if your using one) a few days past your final androgen injection wouldnt be a bad bet as aromotase may still be high.

[M302_Imola]

It doesnt make much sense to run the HCG too long leading to PCT when exogenous androgen levels are on the decline IMHO. Thats using a long ester like Enanthate or Cypionate .

Using HCG will spike endogenous testosterone production, progesterone and estrogen. Too much of any will inhibit the HPTA. Too much testosterone and it will cause negative feedback. Too much estrogen will inhibit the hypothalamus and can impair the leydig cells ability to produce testosterone. Too much progesterone will also inhibit the hypothalamus.

Endogenous testosterone production cannot begin until exogenous androgen levels are practically zero (near hypogondal). Thats what an Endo told me.

If your using a long ester, you should inject the HCG a few days proir to your final shot, then stop IMHO. Wait 14-16 days, then begin PCT with SERMs. Running the AI (if your using one) a few days past your final androgen injection wouldnt be a bad bet as aromotase may still be high.

great info...thanks!

[dec11]

Tamox wont prevent the negative feedback loop. Not much will infact. Clomid has been shown too, when small doses of Test are used. AI's can in theory and opoid antagonists.

HCG should be stopped proir to PCT as it may suppress endogenous LH.

Too much HCG (more than 500ius) may increase estrogen and progesterone too much, hindering recovery.

Tamox can be used with HCG to prevent desensitisation and the conversion from T to 17-OHP. The study is on 40mg/ED Tamox.

250ius 2-3 times a week during your cycle, stop when you stop your androgens, then begin PCT with SERMs.

i cant understand the shrinkage, as i have been using 500iu e5d throughout?
is it senseless for me to ramp the hcg in my last week then?and should i just wait on the testicular atrophy to start naturally post cycle and pct? cheers

[Swifto]

i cant understand the shrinkage, as i have been using 500iu e5d throughout?
is it senseless for me to ramp the hcg in my last week then?and should i just wait on the testicular atrophy to start naturally post cycle and pct? cheers

Testicular size is a poor indication of the state of the HPTA.

However, the HCG should have kept your testes from atrophying completely. How is your ejaculatory volume?

When did you begin HCG therapy throughout? Did you run your cycle for X amount of weeks, then begin using it?

[dec11]

Testicular size is a poor indication of the state of the HPTA.

However, the HCG should have kept your testes from atrophying completely. How is your ejaculatory volume?

When did you begin HCG therapy throughout? Did you run your cycle for X amount of weeks, then begin using it?

not as much as off cycle. i was on dbol 40mg and sust 500mg pw for 1.5 wks before i intro'd the hcg. cheers

[BG]

Yes but you want to give your body some time in between to start to run on its own, thats why I would stop the hcg at least a week if not 2 before pct.

[dec11]

Yes but you want to give your body some time in between to start to run on its own, thats why I would stop the hcg at least a week if not 2 before pct.

ok, cheers pal

[Hazard]

I, personally, wouldn't want to run more than 500iu's of HCG at a clip. I would probably run 250-500 iu's ED/EOD for 10 days rather than 2500iu's in one clip.....

~Haz~

[dec11]

I, personally, wouldn't want to run more than 500iu's of HCG at a clip. I would probably run 250-500 iu's ED/EOD for 10 days rather than 2500iu's in one clip.....

~Haz~

cheers guys, i had bumped my sust to 800mg pw from 500mg in the last month and am backloading adrol for the final 2.5wks and the past week ive noticed a considerable amount of shrinkage even though ive kept up the 500iu hcg throughout, did the sudeen rise in gear cause this or should it have mattered? im assuming some of you more exp guys run alot more than me. thts why i thought maybe the 2 bigger doses wud poss bump them into action and size

[Swifto]

cheers guys, i had bumped my sust to 800mg pw from 500mg in the last month and am backloading adrol for the final 2.5wks and the past week ive noticed a considerable amount of shrinkage even though ive kept up the 500iu hcg throughout, did the sudeen rise in gear cause this or should it have mattered? im assuming some of you more exp guys run alot more than me. thts why i thought maybe the 2 bigger doses wud poss bump them into action and size

Are you using an AI?

If this has just started (since introducing larger doses) you may need to bump your HCG dose IMHO. Is the 500ius every 5 days split into 2 shots, or one shot?

I'd go too 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri and see how you get on.

[dec11]

Are you using an AI?

If this has just started (since introducing larger doses) you may need to bump your HCG dose IMHO. Is the 500ius every 5 days split into 2 shots, or one shot?

I'd go too 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri and see how you get on.

nolva 10mgs eod but only when i feel nips getn sore, till it clears. 500ius one shot e5d

[BG]

I, personally, wouldn't want to run more than 500iu's of HCG at a clip. I would probably run 250-500 iu's ED/EOD for 10 days rather than 2500iu's in one clip.....

~Haz~

I agree , no need for so much.

I would run 200ius two times ew during cycle , then I would stop 2 weeks before pct then resume at 200ius eod during pct with nolva.

[Dumbass]

I had great results with 500-750 IU ED for about a week right before PCT.

[Swifto]

Do 500ius Mon/Wed/Fri with Tamox 10mg/ED, then back down too 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri 10mg/ED Tamox.

If that doesnt work, 500ius for 5 days straight, then 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri.

I dont like the fact you have all this estrogen floating around. Estrogen can hinder the leydig cells ability to produce testosterone . If thats the cause of your shrinkage, you need an AI.

Estrogen from Dbol , Estrogen from exogenous testosterone and estrogen from the Androl (Yes, it binds to the ER) and HCG = Not good IMHO.

[Hazard]

Do 500ius Mon/Wed/Fri with Tamox 10mg/ED, then back down too 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri 10mg/ED Tamox.

If that doesnt work, 500ius for 5 days straight, then 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri.

I dont like the fact you have all this estrogen floating around. Estrogen can hinder the leydig cells ability to produce testosterone . If thats the cause of your shrinkage, you need an AI.

Estrogen from Dbol, Estrogen from exogenous testosterone and estrogen from the Androl (Yes, it binds to the ER) and HCG = Not good IMHO.

In bold is what I was going to recommend as well but I like your idea better after seeing it.

I learn new things and ideas because of you everyday...... much thanks.

~Haz~

[Swifto]

In bold is what I was going to recommend as well but I like your idea better after seeing it.

I learn new things and ideas because of you everyday...... much thanks.

~Haz~

I'm learning everyday too mate.

But thank-you.

[dec11]

Do 500ius Mon/Wed/Fri with Tamox 10mg/ED, then back down too 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri 10mg/ED Tamox.

If that doesnt work, 500ius for 5 days straight, then 250ius Mon/Wed/Fri.

I dont like the fact you have all this estrogen floating around. Estrogen can hinder the leydig cells ability to produce testosterone . If thats the cause of your shrinkage, you need an AI.

Estrogen from Dbol, Estrogen from exogenous testosterone and estrogen from the Androl (Yes, it binds to the ER) and HCG = Not good IMHO.

for any1 else in the same boat, the bold above worked a treat for me, cheers to swifto yet again!

[Swifto]

for any1 else in the same boat, the bold above worked a treat for me, cheers to swifto yet again!

Thats good.

Sometimes a larger dose is needed if HCG hasnt been used or not enough.

One must always be carful not to exceed 500ius in one single shot IMHO. Sustained doses over X amount of days are better at 500ius.

Over that may cause desensitisation of LH recptors in the testes, desensitisation, too much of an increase in estrogen (aromotase and direct effects on the testes) and progesterone.

Just a quick note on the above....Swifto's lesson of the day. ha ha...

The testes can also produce estrogen directly. Not through aromotase. That acounts for around 15% of estrogen in men. The rest from aromotase, adipose tissue, bones (osteoblasts and perhaps osteoclasts), skin, adrenal cortex, hypothalamus and other extragondal sites.

I have read a study that states HCG can directly stimulates the testes to produce estrogen. (cant find it at present...)

[dec11]

will 10mgs tamox ed hinder gains much? If thats the cause of your shrinkage, you need an AI. will tamox cope with this?

[Hazard]

will 10mgs tamox ed hinder gains much? If thats the cause of your shrinkage, you need an AI. will tamox cope with this?

I truely don't believe 10mg's of nola will hinder gains at all. Maybe I'm wrong but i believe all the talk about gains being hindered is overstated. I run nolva and an AI on cycle and I do quite well for myself.

~Haz~

[dec11]

I truely don't believe 10mg's of nola will hinder gains at all. Maybe I'm wrong but i believe all the talk about gains being hindered is overstated. I run nolva and an AI on cycle and I do quite well for myself.

~Haz~

AI's kinda non exsistant here for me, will prob order of ar-r nxt cycle, always thought nolva handled it

[J_SHOCK89]

I have been on a ten week cycle just coming off last week. I didnt use HCG and sufferd major shrinkage lol. I was just going to use clhomid and anavar as a pct but I just won a trip to cancun its in 8 weeks. I wanna be diced for the trip cus its a once in a life time thing for me based on my heavy shedule and what not. So I figured I would break two weeks than hop on another cycle for 7 weeks. Going to Run 1200 mgs a week of test 400, 600 of tren E, some prop in the beginning and some winny in the last 3 to 4 weeks. I was just wondering If I took HCG now with the new cycle thorughout the whole thing will it help my nuts a little and if so what kind of dosages and how many times per week please let me know asap thanks guys. If your wondering why my dosages are so high im 6'4 280 pretty solid and have almost ten cycles under my belt.

[J_SHOCK89]

Also I have been told that running HCG longer than two weeks is not a smart idea please elaborate.

[dec11]

hmmm, bad idea and start you own thread m8

[J_SHOCK89]

how did i start my own thread its HCG related thats why I put it up dick head.

[Hazard]

how did i start my own thread its HCG related thats why I put it up dick head.

Declan started this thread to get his questions answered. Click on the "new thread" button and ask away..... you'll get more responses that way anyways.....

~Haz~

[dec11]

how did i start my own thread its HCG related thats why I put it up dick head.

its not your thread 'dickhead' read the rules, its called hijackin

[Booz]

j-shock declan is correct to tell you to start your own thread............
you are asking for you question to be answered and its declans thread..........
its called hijacking so do yourself a favour and post the question again in your own thread thankyou......................

[dec11]

bump, maybe should include those results in stickie, if not already up?