HCG as a base instead of test!!!??

[O_TownKID613]

Recently I have been hearing alot of people running HCG as their base instead of some form of test, is this a smart thing to do and if so how should it be done.

[BadNewsBerto]

Never heard this before.

Personally, i think its GARBAGE!

how exactly do you figure this would work?
Where did you hear this?

[O_TownKID613]

just a couple guys i know at my gym that are trying i personally agree with you and think its a buch of BS was just curious though

[BadNewsBerto]

what are they stacking it with, and at what dose are they taking the hcg ?

Id personally advise them to stop. Large doses of HCG over long periods of time will desensitive the testes. Not a pleasant thought!

[marcus300]

No don't run HCG as any kind of base, its not an AAS.

Test is king when we are talking base's

[bjpennnn]

tell me these arent the same people.
winny prop cocktail lol!!!

[BadNewsBerto]

tell me these arent the same people.
winny prop cocktail lol!!!

wow! THAT GUY HAS TO BE THE BIGGEST TOOL IVE EVER SEEN! If thats you, or your affiliated with that guy. Id say 20,000iu hcg daily should do the trick.....now

[bjpennnn]

look at the avis.

[BadNewsBerto]

lol, good catch

[bigjoe30]

tell me these arent the same people.
winny prop cocktail lol!!!

has to be the same person LOL!!

[bjpennnn]

i would be embarrassed to though maybe he will try to make another name. the necklace almost through me off ha.

[BadNewsBerto]

that is too funny.

600g protein and 7500cal daily.... highly suspect to say the least lol

[dec11]

lol, he's even wearing the same vest top!

[CanYouDigIt]

This is the kid who was 18 years old trying to make pro football, and saying he was 16% bf, at 240-260 pounds and he got blasted off by so many people so he made another account and put on the same picture,

and he's been asking stupid questions non-stop and he shouldn't even be getting any advice on steroids because he's too young.

[Aodha]

I think this crazy has three accounts at least.

[MuscleScience]

Actually if you think about the mechanism of action I do not see why this would not work. HCG mimics LH causing the testis to produce Testosterone . The reason that natural production of testosterone is shut down with AAS usage is that the pituitary gland stops producing LH. Other than the possibility of desensitization I am not sure why HCG couldnt be used in lieu of testosterone???

[THE JU-ICE]

Dont flame me for this...LOL HCG will raise your natty test levels. I cant see using it as a base for a cycle, but it will raise baseline test. Arimidex will also raise natty test to 150%. Use it as a base, no. Use it to boost test,yes but there are better ways.

[BadNewsBerto]

Actually if you think about the mechanism of action I do not see why this would not work. HCG mimics LH causing the testis to produce Testosterone . The reason that natural production of testosterone is shut down with AAS usage is that the pituitary gland stops producing LH. Other than the possibility of desensitization I am not sure why HCG couldnt be used in lieu of testosterone???

Thats enough of a reason for me...

although if anybody wants to take the time and list all additional pros/cons on the topic id read

them.

[marcus300]

Actually if you think about the mechanism of action I do not see why this would not work. HCG mimics LH causing the testis to produce Testosterone. The reason that natural production of testosterone is shut down with AAS usage is that the pituitary gland stops producing LH. Other than the possibility of desensitization I am not sure why HCG couldnt be used in lieu of testosterone???

Because you aren't going to build any muscle tissue with HCG and I wouldnt replace testosterone with something what isnt going to build like test does, or is your thinking different to why you would swap test for hcg? maybe someone should do a log and see the effects

[BadNewsBerto]

Because you aren't going to build any muscle tissue with HCG and I wouldnt replace testosterone with something what isnt going to build like test does, or is your thinking different to why you would swap test for hcg? maybe someone should do a log and see the effects

any takers?

[MuscleScience]

Because you aren't going to build any muscle tissue with HCG and I wouldnt replace testosterone with something what isnt going to build like test does, or is your thinking different to why you would swap test for hcg? maybe someone should do a log and see the effects

If your running another compound like deca or tren I see no need for testosterone anyway for muscle building purposes only to keep things functioning at a rudimentary level. I am not a firm believer in stacking because of competitive inhibition of the androgen receptor by multiple compounds. The compound with the highest binding affinity is going to occupy a larger number of receptors statistically speaking. This is the same principle as using Tamoxifen Citrate to prevent estrogen issues during and after a cycle.

[Swifto]

You'de need massive doses of HCG to reach supraphysiologocal levels of testosterone . Then you'de be risking desensitisation and may hinder recovery.

Uneven levels of Test = Increase in sides.

Rise in E2 thats not controllable. That will also build up over time.

Rise in progesterone thats not controllable. Therfore, a decrease in DHT (PgR is primary inhibitor of DHT).

Its possible, but not logical IMHO.

[MuscleScience]

You'de need massive doses of HCG to reach supraphysiologocal levels of testosterone . Then you'de be risking desensitisation and may hinder recovery.

Uneven levels of Test = Increase in sides.

Rise in E2 thats not controllable. That will also build up over time.

Rise in progesterone thats not controllable. Therfore, a decrease in DHT (PgR is primary inhibitor of DHT).

Its possible, but not logical IMHO.

How does HCG increase Progesterone? Is it from a backward enzymatic degradation of T or E to progesterone?

[gymnerd]

What is it with everyone not wanting to run test lately? Test is King for a reason.

[marcus300]

If your running another compound like deca or tren I see no need for testosterone anyway for muscle building purposes only to keep things functioning at a rudimentary level. I am not a firm believer in stacking because of competitive inhibition of the androgen receptor by multiple compounds. The compound with the highest binding affinity is going to occupy a larger number of receptors statistically speaking. This is the same principle as using Tamoxifen Citrate to prevent estrogen issues during and after a cycle.

The synergy between Test and other compounds is second to known IMHO, maybe your different but Test builds like no other and when couple with other muscle building compounds like Tren it builds some serious muscle tissue, but I know some guys hate test because they get some bad sides so maybe it would be an option for guys who suffer with Test.

[Swifto]

How does HCG increase Progesterone? Is it from a backward enzymatic degradation of T or E to progesterone?

Testosterone , yes.



Summary
The Aging Male
1999, Vol. 2, No. 4, Pages 240-245



Progesterone and testicular function
T. El-Hefnawy*1 and I. T. Huhtaniemi*1†
1Department of Physiology, University of Turku, Turku, Finland
†Correspondence: I. T. Huhtaniemi, Department of Physiology, University of Turku, Kiinamyllynkatu 10, 20530 Turku, Finland




Defined by most encyclopedias and textbooks as a female hormone, the importance of progesterone in male reproduction has remained in the shadow. Testicular progesterone has been regarded as a by-product of steroidogenesis, which is not converted into testosterone. In many conditions, including aging, the testicular progesterone/androgen ratio increases and absolute progesterone concentrations can reach high levels. Only during the past few years has the role of progesterone as a modulator of male reproductive function become evident. Progesterone has been shown to act through binding to a protein at the cell membrane in sperm as well as in interstitial Leydig cells. The current review elaborates on the importance of progesterone in testicular physiology.


Exogenous PgR will suppress LH, FSH and T also. I've got 2 papers (abstracts) on its effects on the HPTA. I only found them recently after wanting to know how PgR effects the HPTA.

[Swifto]

How does HCG increase Progesterone? Is it from a backward enzymatic degradation of T or E to progesterone?

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin and Testicular Function: Stimulation of Testosterone , Testosterone Precursors, and Sperm Production Despite High Estradiol Levels*

Alvin M. Matsumoto, C. Alvin Paulsen, Bill R. Hopper, Robert W. Rebar and William J. Bremner
Division of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine, Veterans Administration Medical Center (A.M.M., W.J.B.), Seattle, Washington 98108; Public Health Hospital (C.A.P.), Seattle, Washington 98105; and the Department of Reproductive Medicine, University of California at San Diego (B.R.H., R. W.R.), La Jolla, California 92093


Excessive gonadotropin stimulation of the testis induced by the administration of high doses of hCG or LH markedly decreases testicular function in experimental animals. The adverse effects of supraphysiological gonadotropin stimulation are thought to be mediated, in part, by the very high levels of estradiol produced. We administered a supraphysiological dosage of hCG together with exogenous testosterone (T) to normal men for several months. The combination of these agents produced very high serum estradiol (E2) levels and (we assume) high intratesticular E2 levels. In this setting of supraphysiological gonadotropin stimulation and high E2 levels, we examined serum levels of T, the 4 and 5 steroid precursors of T, and sperm production. After a 3-month control period, five normal men received T enthanate (T; 200 mg, im, weekly) for 3–5 months. Then, while T was continued in the same dosage, all subjects were given hCG (5000 IU, im, three times weekly) for an additional 4–6 months. Serum E2 levels during hCG plus T treatment increased to a mean (±SEM) of 158 ± 16 pg/ml.

Despite the very high E2 levels generated by this prolonged administration of hCG and T, hCG stimulated a mean increase of 5.1 ng/ml in the total T level and 0.18 ng/ml in the free T level over those found during T administration alone. These increments in T levels approximate normal blood T levels in man. Significant changes in serum levels of 4 steroid precursors of T biosynthesis occurred during the study. Serum progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone levels fell significantly with gonadotropic suppression induced by T administration alone and then increased significantly with hCG stimulation. In contrast to the changes seen in serum levels of 4 precursors, there were no significant changes in levels of 5 steroid precursors of T biosynthesis. An increased ratio of 17-hydroxyprogesterone to T during hCG administration was the only suggestion of an E2-induced block in steroid synthesis. hCG also significantly stimulated sperm production, as assessed by sperm concentration, motilities, and morphologies, in spite of the very high serum E2 levels; the mean sperm concentration increased from 1.0 ± 1.0 million/cc during T administration alone to 46 ± 16 million/cc during hCG plus T treatment. We conclude that chronic administration of supraphysiological dosages of hCG can stimulate testicular function in man, despite very high E2 levels, and that hCG in these dosages does not lead to severe testicular regression in man. Perhaps a higher dosage of hCG administered to men would replicate the severe testicular suppression reported in experimental animals. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 56: 720, 1983)

Sorry, I havent been able to find a study confirming HCG stimulates endogenous T when using exogenous testosterone and just have.

It also shows an increase in PgR from HCG when on exo. Test. This study is excellent.

[MuscleScience]

Awesome thanks Swifto!