Will I keep gaining weight?

[taiboxa]

Tai, what do you mean?

Just run Prop right through, forget the Cyp, and frontload with say 1g/week for the first couple?

lol no.. "Frontload" like double up your initial doses to saturate your plasma levels instead of waiting for the long estered compound to stack on its self.

[sixxer]

lol no.. "Frontload" like double up your initial doses to saturate your plasma levels instead of waiting for the long estered compound to stack on its self.

But even if you frontload Cyp at say 1-1.5g/week for the first couple. Due to the nature of the ester, won't it still take a good 4 weeks before the Test is really in effect anyway?

[taiboxa]

But even if you frontload Cyp at say 1-1.5g/week for the first couple. Due to the nature of the ester, won't it still take a good 4 weeks before the Test is really in effect anyway?

no even if you take 200mg its still in your system pretty much right off the bat. i can attest to this through tren enanthate experiences to varify.. if i take trenE and frontload i can experience the nightsweats/sides with in 3-4days max.

plus your practically shut down as soon as your body recognizes the excess of hormones. its just test takes a long time to notice gains imo because its not the strongest of aas out there

[sixxer]

no even if you take 200mg its still in your system pretty much right off the bat. i can attest to this through tren enanthate experiences to varify.. if i take trenE and frontload i can experience the nightsweats/sides with in 3-4days max.

plus your practically shut down as soon as your body recognizes the excess of hormones. its just test takes a long time to notice gains imo because its not the strongest of aas out there

Ok, that's something I want to explore with my next cycle then.

I did notice my appetite increase in the first 7-10 days of my Test+Deca cycle, I assumed it was mental though. Perhaps it wasn't, maybe that was the first noticeable affect of the Test.

I was aware that the first dose of Deca shuts you down, I thought Test, depending on the dosage, took from 2-4 weeks.

I agree that Test is a weak AAS, however it should be run with just about every cycle for one reason or another. I am curious as to what gains might be achieved with high doses of Test though. Perhaps 1-1.5g/week. Have you any experience with such high doses?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

BTW, just read your last post re: 20wk cycle. My buddies that cycled same compounds as me were all exp. BB and ran their cycles 16 wks. and are now on TRT with their docs due to low test from their labs 2 months post-pct, (real low) 30- 100. i don't know if their age (35-40) and natty test prod. had anything to do with it.

ouch well I am 24. Hopefully I will have better luck than them. I just need to be ripped for summer and starting to cut right after the cycle will cause me to lose most of my muscle

[Neevor]

Okay, I wanna throw a little somethin into the mix with six and tai here. Bear with me...

Test Cyp has an active life of about 13 days. This means that if you took 100mg it would be above useless levels for 13 days. right? That means that it has a half life of like 3 or 4 days. Meaning after 4 days you'd have 50mgs left, after 8 youd have 25, after 12 youd have 12.5mgs. Lower than that and you dont have enough to make much of a difference right? Your body also has to break the ester off to utilize the compound right? If, at the point that the ester is gone, you dont utilize it to repair or build a muscle somewhere then your kidneys grab it and you pee it out.

Prop has an active life of about 2.5 days. This means that if you took 100mgs, 50mgs of that is available in the very first 16 hours. by the time you get to a day and a half out you only have 25 mgs left to be broken down and by day two only 12.5.

The point here is that you have to take a higher dosage but less frequently with Cyp because it becomes usefull at a much slower rate. If you want 50mgs available in the first 12 hours like you would get with 100mgs of Prop, you'd have to take around 800mgs (I think, check my math on that). This is why you front load with longer estered components. You want to make the same amount of test that you will average over the entire cycle available in the first couple weeks.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the only reason you'd want to front load with Prop is if you were shooting it ED. If you shot it EOD you'd pretty much just be increasing your test levels to higher levels then they would be later in the cycle. What I mean is if you shot every day, after 24 hours you'd have like 55mgs available from the first shot and then add another. 24 hours later youd have like 75mgs then 24 hours later youd have like 80 and the curve would start to level out until your body was breaking it down just as fast as you were injecting. So if you frontloaded and you wanted to immediately get your levels to 80mgs of free test then you'd shoot like 200mgs for the first two days and then drop to 100mgs. On the other hand, if you shot EOD youd basically be putting your body on a hormonal roller coaster because even if you shot 400mgs of test prop the first day, by 2 days later you'd only have like 80mgs left. then up to 480. then up to like 500. Then you drop down to a normal dose like 150mgs and suddenly you've dropped your test levels 250. This is why people shoot test prop ED even though its got an active life of 2 to 3 days. Because of the half life and its implications on test levels.

Similarly, its why even when you are on Enth or Cyp, you should shoot it every 3 or 4 days, to keep your levels even. So if you're running 500 mgs its easy to just do two shots a week of 250.

I guess my point here is that if you are gonna front load prop, you should probably be running it ED. Otherwise, admit you're lazy and stick with normal EOD injections and let your levels ramp up. Its only gonna take a week or two to get to a (relatively) even level anyway.

[taiboxa]

Ok, that's something I want to explore with my next cycle then.

I did notice my appetite increase in the first 7-10 days of my Test+Deca cycle, I assumed it was mental though. Perhaps it wasn't, maybe that was the first noticeable affect of the Test.

I was aware that the first dose of Deca shuts you down, I thought Test, depending on the dosage, took from 2-4 weeks.

I agree that Test is a weak AAS, however it should be run with just about every cycle for one reason or another. I am curious as to what gains might be achieved with high doses of Test though. Perhaps 1-1.5g/week. Have you any experience with such high doses?

i have taken more than that in a Day..
and most aas will cause your body to cease endogenous hormonal production pretty much right away.. though its still dose dependent.. most 19nors will shut you down even at a very low dose.. while others take lil more but once your body recognizes it has ample androgens it will send signals to cease production

[sixxer]

Okay, I wanna throw a little somethin into the mix with six and tai here. Bear with me...

Test Cyp has an active life of about 13 days. This means that if you took 100mg it would be above useless levels for 13 days. right? That means that it has a half life of like 3 or 4 days. Meaning after 4 days you'd have 50mgs left, after 8 youd have 25, after 12 youd have 12.5mgs. Lower than that and you dont have enough to make much of a difference right? Your body also has to break the ester off to utilize the compound right? If, at the point that the ester is gone, you dont utilize it to repair or build a muscle somewhere then your kidneys grab it and you pee it out.

Prop has an active life of about 2.5 days. This means that if you took 100mgs, 50mgs of that is available in the very first 16 hours. by the time you get to a day and a half out you only have 25 mgs left to be broken down and by day two only 12.5.

The point here is that you have to take a higher dosage but less frequently with Cyp because it becomes usefull at a much slower rate. If you want 50mgs available in the first 12 hours like you would get with 100mgs of Prop, you'd have to take around 800mgs (I think, check my math on that). This is why you front load with longer estered components. You want to make the same amount of test that you will average over the entire cycle available in the first couple weeks.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here but the only reason you'd want to front load with Prop is if you were shooting it ED. If you shot it EOD you'd pretty much just be increasing your test levels to higher levels then they would be later in the cycle. What I mean is if you shot every day, after 24 hours you'd have like 55mgs available from the first shot and then add another. 24 hours later youd have like 75mgs then 24 hours later youd have like 80 and the curve would start to level out until your body was breaking it down just as fast as you were injecting. So if you frontloaded and you wanted to immediately get your levels to 80mgs of free test then you'd shoot like 200mgs for the first two days and then drop to 100mgs. On the other hand, if you shot EOD youd basically be putting your body on a hormonal roller coaster because even if you shot 400mgs of test prop the first day, by 2 days later you'd only have like 80mgs left. then up to 480. then up to like 500. Then you drop down to a normal dose like 150mgs and suddenly you've dropped your test levels 250. This is why people shoot test prop ED even though its got an active life of 2 to 3 days. Because of the half life and its implications on test levels.

Similarly, its why even when you are on Enth or Cyp, you should shoot it every 3 or 4 days, to keep your levels even. So if you're running 500 mgs its easy to just do two shots a week of 250.

I guess my point here is that if you are gonna front load prop, you should probably be running it ED. Otherwise, admit you're lazy and stick with normal EOD injections and let your levels ramp up. Its only gonna take a week or two to get to a (relatively) even level anyway.

Good post, very informative.