1st Cycle Planning

[yoyohello]

Hi guys, I'm planning my first cycle, and here it is. Let me know what you think, and tell me what I should do for pct. thanks!

Test-e 500mg every week, weeks 1-10
dbol 30mg every day, weeks 1-4

Clen weeks 11-16 (haven't determined doses)

Aromasin 25mg every day, weeks 3-11

HCG 500iu every week, weeks 5-12

nolva 40mg/40/20/20 every day, weeks 13-16


how does this look? thanks a lot guys! this is my first cycle. i'm 20 years old, 6'2, 220-230 pounds in the winter, cut down to around 175-190 in the summer depending on water. currently finishing week 1 of an EC stack. looking to do my first cycle around november. cheers!

[Dr Pepper]

Most of the guys on here will say ur to young and you can grow alotmore naturally... What's ur bf%? What's ur diet look like?

[ArmedHammerd]

Id start out natraual until you hit a plateau and cant gain anymore natarul stats please

[bjpennnn]

Marcus300
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398146

[bjpennnn]

Whats the right age to take steroids (GOOD READ)
"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *

[yoyohello]

hey guys, i appreciate all your input. the thing is, i grew up in America, and well...was prescribed hydrocortisone, albuterol, and other steroids as young as six years...i remember when i around 11, and i had chest pain (start of gyno) from the medication i was on for my skin condition, so i just dont think that AAS will stop my development...since i have been exposed at a very young age to other hormones (and cortisol does effect estrogen levels)

ive been able to change my body drastically by training consistenly for the past 3 years, and in the past 2 years i have had more 2 and 3-a-days than one a days...let alone barely any rest days. this past winter i was eating 8000 calories a day, clean, in my attempt to get stronger and build muscle.

that being said, i have veins in my abs and my quads are more separated week by week. i still have gyno, which i hate because i have veins all over my body and my skin is tight all around, except for my chest (spider-web shoulder veins, lats, etc.) i dont know what % that is, but i dont think that matters too much. i adjust my diet accordingly to how i look.

stats? well, i'm 6'1-6'2, 185 pounds, very lean (except for that gawd awful gyno).

thanks again for your input

[Big]

I would address the gyno prior to cycling.

[yoyohello]

I would address the gyno prior to cycling.

not really anything i can do about it besides complain

[dec11]

hey guys, i appreciate all your input. the thing is, i grew up in America, and well...was prescribed hydrocortisone, albuterol, and other steroids as young as six years...i remember when i around 11, and i had chest pain (start of gyno) from the medication i was on for my skin condition, so i just dont think that AAS will stop my development...since i have been exposed at a very young age to other hormones (and cortisol does effect estrogen levels)

ive been able to change my body drastically by training consistenly for the past 3 years, and in the past 2 years i have had more 2 and 3-a-days than one a days...let alone barely any rest days. this past winter i was eating 8000 calories a day, clean, in my attempt to get stronger and build muscle.

that being said, i have veins in my abs and my quads are more separated week by week. i still have gyno, which i hate because i have veins all over my body and my skin is tight all around, except for my chest (spider-web shoulder veins, lats, etc.) i dont know what % that is, but i dont think that matters too much. i adjust my diet accordingly to how i look.

stats? well, i'm 6'1-6'2, 185 pounds, very lean (except for that gawd awful gyno).

thanks again for your input

i find tht hard to believe

[Big]

not really anything i can do about it besides complain

why is that? what gyno reversal protocols have you tried?

[yoyohello]

i find tht hard to believe

ate every 1.5 hours. half a cup of rice and grilled chicken, with 1/2 cup of Cashews (sometimes i would use PB). ate loads of raw broccolli. had this 6 times a day.

had ON Serious Mass, 2x a day (so its like 4000 calories from those shakes).

when i got bored of chicken, i started using salmon for my evening meals. breakfast was the same always; 6-7 jumbo eggs (all yolks) and 1 cup oatmeal. on occasion i'd have sweet potatoes instead of the rice with some of my chicken meals.

anyways, yeah i was constantly bloated and felt like throwing up. lots of forcefeeding, but i thought that was the only way to gain weight. ended up gaining a lot of fat, but i put on quite a bit of muscle, compared to last year. wont be eating that much again though, not worth it imho (i found out that i dont need to eat myself to death to gain weight)

[yoyohello]

why is that? what gyno reversal protocols have you tried?

so what do you recommend? No, i haven't tried any. would appreciate any help you can give. if i were somehow able to get rid of my gyno i doubt i'd touch gear. i just assumed its permanent because well...never did ph or roids, but i got it anyway. what can i try? thanks a lot guys

any sorry for posting in the other section; i'll delete

[Big]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880

[yoyohello]

why is that? what gyno reversal protocols have you tried?

so based on what i've told you, what do you recommend?

[Big]

I'd try the reversal protocol listed above first and see how that works for you

[yoyohello]

I'd try the reversal protocol listed above first and see how that works for you

sorry to sound real stupid, but could you break that down for me? also, after stopping the letro, how long do you stay on nolva? he says do it just like you would do pct, but i have never done ph or aas so i have no clue about pct. so what days/dosages should i take for everything? also, is this something that you have to do forever, or you can stop after it goes away?

[Big]

after stopping the letro, how long do you stay on nolva?

copied and pasted from the article:

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

as for how to take the letro, copied and pasted from the article:

Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

[yoyohello]

hey man thanks a lot, i really appreciate it. i'll see if i can get my hands on this stuff, and let you know how it goes. i guess you've persuaded me to not to cycle at all lol

[Big]

click the blue word letro and keep us posted

[yoyohello]

click the blue word letro and keep us posted

so this stuff is legal? and how do you take it - its liquid, so you have to inject?? i can get nolva from a friend (or do you recommend someplace else)

[Big]

oral and legal

[yoyohello]

oral and legal

alrighty, i'll post when i start it! thanks again dude, i really appreciate it man

[yoyohello]

oral and legal

quick question: you were advising me not to take aas because i'm still growing. would taking letro and nolva be "damaging" in this respect? i feel that it would. wouldn't it just make sense to take this alongside/after a cycle...?

[Big]

you are too young to cycle, and running a cycle with existing gyno is never a good idea.

[yoyohello]

you are too young to cycle, and running a cycle with existing gyno is never a good idea.

does letro and nolva have health risks i should know about (like dbol is liver toxic and aromatizes, tren shrinks your nuts, etc etc)