HRT/TRT, AAS, and Sperm Production

**gbrice75** · 07-07-2010, 05:39 PM

I am coming down the home stretch of a 12 week Test E cycle, 500mg/week. (25lb gain, bodyfat stayed to within 2% or so of when I started). I almost made it through the entire cycle without anybody knowing, but over the weekend I got sloppy, left some paraphernalia out and unfortunately my wife found it.

We're both in our early-mid 30's, and I probably couldn't have picked a worse time to cycle as we're ready and trying to have a baby. I am g2g with PCT (clomid 100/50/50/50 and nolva 40/20/20/20) but am concerned about the (lack of) sperm production due to running test.

My question is - there are people out there on HRT for life, i've seen people as young as early 20's, for whatever reason. We know using synthetic test can halt or lower sperm production (CAN, or definitely WILL?). So do these people on TRT simply have much less of a chance to reproduce vs. a 'normal' person who has never used AAS or been on HRT/TRT? If so, is there anything out there to counter this?

I want to do everything I can to maximize my chances of reproducing. If I wind up being sterile due to a stinkin' steroid cycle, my wife will probably divorce me. Of course, I will be going for blood work and a sperm count test once my PCT is finished. I am just trying to be proactive here - as we know, a good percentage of doctors have no clue what they're talking about when it comes to AAS, etc.

I would appreciate any and all feedback, thank you guys!

**Archangel.** · 07-07-2010, 06:19 PM

Run some HCG during your PCT as well as the nolva/clomid. From what I've learned it's the BEST thing at getting your testes back up and running

As for dosing, there's various opinions but, most people I've talked to run 1500-2500 iu eod for about the first 2 weeks of PCT.
You can also run it on cycle, but from the sounds of it, yu're almost done.
Hope this helps

**dece870717** · 07-07-2010, 06:33 PM

From searching and reading around various boards I have read of many men that have been on TRT for YEARS that had no problem conceiving when using HCG or HMG or a combo of the two.

Take this study for what its worth, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12801577

The guy was not on TRT but his fertility problem was due to his steroid use and the problem was successful fixed.

**gbrice75** · 07-07-2010, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Archangel.

Run some HCG during your PCT as well as the nolva/clomid. From what I've learned it's the BEST thing at getting your testes back up and running

As for dosing, there's various opinions but, most people I've talked to run 1500-2500 iu eod for about the first 2 weeks of PCT.
You can also run it on cycle, but from the sounds of it, yu're almost done.
Hope this helps

Thanks bro! Not asking for sources or anything, but i'm pretty clueless when it comes to HCG. Can it be obtained relatively easily? Are there alot of known fakes out there as with AAS? I basically have a month to get a hold of some if i'm going to do it, so i'm feeling some urgency here.

**dece870717** · 07-07-2010, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Thanks bro! Not asking for sources or anything, but i'm pretty clueless when it comes to HCG. Can it be obtained relatively easily? Are there alot of known fakes out there as with AAS? I basically have a month to get a hold of some if i'm going to do it, so i'm feeling some urgency here.

Most sources usually do carry HCG . Its relatively easy to get as it is not a controlled substance. I've ordered some before from overseas pharmacy's with no problems.

**gbrice75** · 07-07-2010, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by dece870717

Most sources usually do carry HCG. Its relatively easy to get as it is not a controlled substance. I've ordered some before from overseas pharmacy's with no problems.

Thanks bro, this is the kind of info I was looking for. I just need to do a bit of research now!

**Archangel.** · 07-07-2010, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by dece870717

Most sources usually do carry HCG. Its relatively easy to get as it is not a controlled substance. I've ordered some before from overseas pharmacy's with no problems.

What he said

**Bonaparte** · 07-07-2010, 11:40 PM

Excluding the use of HMG, your sperm count will likely never be higher than when on a good dose of Clomid. But if you really want to get her knocked up, use HMG and Clomid together after your PCT. If that doesn't work, nothing will.

HMG (human menopausal gonadotropin) is a peptide hormone made of LH and FSH, the 2 hormones responsible for signaling sperm and test production. hCG only mimics the LH component.

**gbrice75** · 07-08-2010, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Excluding the use of HMG, your sperm count will likely never be higher than when on a good dose of Clomid. But if you really want to get her knocked up, use HMG and Clomid together after your PCT. If that doesn't work, nothing will.

HMG (human menopausal gonadotropin) is a peptide hormone made of LH and FSH, the 2 hormones responsible for signaling sperm and test production. hCG only mimics the LH component.

This is good news! I'll be on clomid anyway obviously as part of my PCT. So you're telling me that I could possibly 'kill 2 birds' while running PCT - get natural productions started again and possibly have a higher than usual sperm count?

**Bonaparte** · 07-08-2010, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

This is good news! I'll be on clomid anyway obviously as part of my PCT. So you're telling me that I could possibly 'kill 2 birds' while running PCT - get natural productions started again and possibly have a higher than usual sperm count?

Yeah. Blast away with the Clomid and blow some huge loads in your old lady

Ideally, you should also use hCG before PCT to get your balls up and running before even introducing the SERMs.

I would keep the Nolva at 20mg for the entire PCT and try to keep the Clomid at 100mg. It is more likely to cause side effects, but nothing will have you busting loads like 100mg of Clomid will.

**gbrice75** · 07-08-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Yeah. Blast away with the Clomid and blow some huge loads in your old lady

Ideally, you should also use hCG before PCT to get your balls up and running before even introducing the SERMs.

I would keep the Nolva at 20mg for the entire PCT and try to keep the Clomid at 100mg. It is more likely to cause side effects, but nothing will have you busting loads like 100mg of Clomid will.

LoL thanks bro, I intend to shoot for the goal every time!

Unfortunately it's a bit late for the HCG; I have 2 weeks left on the cycle and then am off to Mexico for a week. I had the cycle planned to end purposely so my week in Mexico would be one of my weeks completely off before starting PCT (God I hope I don't feel like shit while on vacation - gonna be doing alot of drinking too, bad timing?).

I'm a little worried about running Clomid at 100mg for a month... but as you say it should up my chances. I was just going to run the very typical Clomid/Nolva PCT. Hmm, always something to think about!!!

**big_ron** · 07-08-2010, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

gonna be doing alot of drinking too, bad timing?

Worst timing possible !

**40plusnewbie** · 07-09-2010, 07:41 AM

I shot B12 1000mcg/day and B6 50mg/day and took niacin at about 40mg/day (it can give very bad facial hot flushes for like an hour if taken at too high a dose, they make a time released version that will not give u that effect- it's my understanding that niacin synergizes with B12 (not sure about B6).

In any even my sperm count went up almost 500% !!! If you google B12 sperm count and B6 sperm count you should find evidence of this.

Me and my wife were going to a fertility dr. I had asked him if there were any supp's I could take to increase my sperm count, he said no just a multi vit. Well I did my own research and started injecting as described above, the next test they did on my sperm showed that HUGE jump. I asked "Hypothetically speaking, if I was injecting B12 and B6 mega dosing, could that be the reason for the huge increase?" He said "Well, yes, since they are both anti-oxidants." I replied by telling him what I was doing. His respons "Keep doing that" (although there is a risk associated with long term B6 dosing).

It often pays off to do your own research. And screw going to dr's for simple shots. Buy these and use them.

You can take these as pills but the liver eats up like 2/3 of the dose your taking. It is simply healthier and more effective to inject as long as you are using sterile techniques.

**gbrice75** · 07-09-2010, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by big_ron

Worst timing possible !

Ugh, is this because of alcohol's negative effect/supression of natural test production?

Obviously a very flawed plan; I did not consider this at all. If anything, I should have waited until I returned from Mexico to even start the cycle. But like a little kid, I had the gear and just HAD to get started right away. Of course, I also wanted to make some gains prior to going to a beach resort for a week.

Remember that I will be starting my PCT 1 week AFTER returning from Mexico. During my time there, I will be in my first of 2 'off weeks' with the enanthate still in my system, so at that point I will have no natural production going on anyway... am I missing something?

Point being is that I will not be consuming alcohol while running PCT, so they will not be 'cancelling eachother out' in terms of test production. Is there something else I should be concerned about during my week in Mexico?

**Bonaparte** · 07-09-2010, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Ugh, is this because of alcohol's negative effect/supression of natural test production?

Obviously a very flawed plan; I did not consider this at all. If anything, I should have waited until I returned from Mexico to even start the cycle. But like a little kid, I had the gear and just HAD to get started right away. Of course, I also wanted to make some gains prior to going to a beach resort for a week.

Remember that I will be starting my PCT 1 week AFTER returning from Mexico. During my time there, I will be in my first of 2 'off weeks' with the enanthate still in my system, so at that point I will have no natural production going on anyway... am I missing something?

Point being is that I will not be consuming alcohol while running PCT, so they will not be 'cancelling eachother out' in terms of test production. Is there something else I should be concerned about during my week in Mexico?

The problem with drinking isn't really the drop in test. It is more that alcohol kills anabolism (so it keeps you catabolic) and causes anything you eat while intoxicated to be stored as fat, since your body is using the ethanol for fuel. So you're losing muscle while adding fat when you drink. And if your hormones are already in the tank, you stand to lose a good deal of your new gains by partying a lot.

**gbrice75** · 07-10-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

The problem with drinking isn't really the drop in test. It is more that alcohol kills anabolism (so it keeps you catabolic) and causes anything you eat while intoxicated to be stored as fat, since your body is using the ethanol for fuel. So you're losing muscle while adding fat when you drink. And if your hormones are already in the tank, you stand to lose a good deal of your new gains by partying a lot.

Understood, thanks. Hopefully my hormones won't be in the tank as i'll be fresh off of my cycle - with test e I should have at LEAST a week before having to worry - not starting PCT for 2 weeks. Sure if I wanted to err on the side of caution i wouldn't drink.... but c'mon - i'm going to Mexico on vacation with family and friends! That's more of a temptation than Adam and the apple in the Garden of Eden....

**Grid_King1** · 07-10-2010, 12:21 PM

I am going to be having a baby in a couple of months here and this baby was actually conceived while I was in the middle of a cycle. I was taking test P, NPP, and t bol at the time.

**gbrice75** · 07-10-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Grid_King1

I am going to be having a baby in a couple of months here and this baby was actually conceived while I was in the middle of a cycle. I was taking test P, NPP, and t bol at the time.

Congrats! I hope i'm as lucky as you!

**Bonaparte** · 07-10-2010, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

That's more of a temptation than Adam and the apple in the Garden of Eden....

Actually, Eve was the one who was dumb enough to be tempted by an apple. Adam probably couldn't have cared less, but only feigned interest and took a bite to get Eve to shut the hell up and quit nagging him about how he was never willing to try new things and share experiences with her blah blah blah...

**gbrice75** · 07-10-2010, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Actually, Eve was the one who was dumb enough to be tempted by an apple. Adam probably couldn't have cared less, but only feigned interest and took a bite to get Eve to shut the hell up and quit nagging him about how he was never willing to try new things and share experiences with her blah blah blah...

LoL I was just making a half assed reference, but thanks for the laugh! Kind of 'modernizes' the story...