19 yr old First Cycle (I want opinions)

[younggunz21]

Yes I am going to do it. Start the ultimate debate about steroid usage in teens. I want all input from all levels of experience but I warn you that I am cocked, locked and loaded . Let me start by telling you a little bit about myself.

I just turned 19. I am about 215 lbs and less than 10% body fat. My bench press is 405, my squat is 455 (ass to grass), and deadlift is 535. I have never used any form of AAS although I have done 1 pro-hormone (which I must admit did not yield very impressive results). I train extremely hard and smart. I own my own website for teen fitness and bodybuilding and have written 100's of pages worth of articles. My diet is on point and has been for 1-2 years. I have been training seriously and specifically for bodybuilding for 4 years now and have clearly gotten great results. I plan on doing my first show next year. I was going to wait until I was older before I did a show because I did not want to use steroids at a young age and there was no way that I was wasting all of this hard earned muscle dieting down for a natural show so that I could compete with a bunch of punk ass liars. Yes ladies and gentleman, a lot of those so called "Naturals" are saucin too. But then I hit 405 on a bench press naturally and reality struck. I thought "I am 215 and strong as hell for a natural 18 yr old (just turned 19 a couple weeks ago). Why not try to make it to the top of the game? So that has become my goal. To be the best. I have followed William Llewellyn, Bill Roberts, and Patrick Arnold's research, read almost every steroid book (including Endocrinology books from college course), and have picked the brains of some very intelligent bodybuilding and power lifting coaches for quite some time now. Enough about me though...

The issue that I have is with some current steroid users. Now I completely agree that 99.99% of teens and even guys in their early 20's should not even consider using AAS for a while. Strictly because of reasons including but not limited to: Lack of Maturity, Little to No knowledge about Anabolics, no knowledge about diet or training, and possible stunting of growth. Now what a lot of you older guys need to understand before you go preaching is that their may be a few teens out there that are extremely knowledgeable, mature enough, work very hard, have tangible goals in mind and have obtained medical proof that their growth plates are sealed and are therefore done growing. Things that I see very often on these forums are foolish adults who think that they know everything and try to preach to intelligent young adults like myself. Here are a few things that bother me:

- If you are on your 10th cycle and are taking 1 gram of test, stacked with 150 mg of Anadrol and you are only 220 lbs... You need to lay off the juice because either A) You are doing something wrong or B) Your genetics are terrible and you need to cut your losses. Get over the fact that you will not be Mr. Olympia in this lifetime.

- If you are in your 20's and less than 185 lbs, claiming that you have been working out for 10 years and you are going to do your first cycle. I don't want to hear you telling me that I am not ready for AAS.

- Do not tell me that I am going to mess with my body's natural hormone production because I am only 19. I am sorry my friend but if I am planning on doing well in competitive bodybuilding (which I am) I will have to be on HRT replacement later on in life whether I start at 19 or 25.

- Do not tell someone that they are stupid and in your own post you can't even spell something like Nolvadex or Enanthate correctly.

These are just a few things that I have to say on the topic. I hope that I do not tarnish my reputation on this forum but I felt that I needed to bring up the topic because it is a debate that I have wanted to participate in for quite sometime now. I respect all opinions and want input from all members. Bring it on guys!

Cylce:

My first cycle will be 400 mg of test E a week split into 2 injections a week for 10 weeks, unless I am still seeing results which I will then bump to 12 weeks. I will be stacking it with 200 mg of equipoise (100 in each shot). Now I know that the equipoise is debatable simply because it is not a high enough dosage and will not be used long enough. Only reason I am using is because A) I got a good price on it B) I would like it for the increased ghrelin production and C) Because this is my first time using anabolics my androgen receptors should be very sensitive and I feel like 200 mg of equipoise will still give me some lean consistent gains and vascularity on top of the increased ghrelin production. I will be running Aromasin on cycle (25 mg eod) and I will actually include it in my post cycle because Aromasin is not only a suicide inhibitor but it is also an effective FSH and LH stimulator and can be used post cycle. I will continue to run the Sin at 25 mg eod for a couple weeks after my cycle along with proper dosages of Clomid. I shouldn't need more than those 2 drugs post cycle simply because my dosage is relatively low and because of my age my HPTA will recover very quickly.

[JBarron]

first post.

[MrGreen]

Best of luck to you and I am not about to tell you one thing or another but rather ask for this site you speak of and your cycle layout and compounds.

[bigboomer]

[Big]

we do not offer advice when it would be irresponsible to do so. some members complain about our stance, but every bit of information that you need is already posted on the site, you if your attitude is that you're going to do it anyway, do the research and proceed against our recommendations and without our help.

[younggunz21]

we do not offer advice when it would be irresponsible to do so. some members complain about our stance, but every bit of information that you need is already posted on the site, you if your attitude is that you're going to do it anyway, do the research and proceed against our recommendations and without our help.

I would more or less like to get input from you guys on whether or not you agree with my stance on this matter and why or why not.

[younggunz21]

Best of luck to you and I am not about to tell you one thing or another but rather ask for this site you speak of and your cycle layout and compounds.

I would provide the site but unfortunately there is a bio of me and I would rather remain anonymous. There is absolutely no steroid information on there because as I said before...I would never condone steroid use to the average teen so I choose to not provide any information about the subject in my literature.

My first cycle will be 400 mg of test E a week split into 2 injections a week for 10 weeks, unless I am still seeing results which I will then bump to 12 weeks. I will be stacking it with 200 mg of equipoise (100 in each shot). Now I know that the equipoise is debatable simply because it is not a high enough dosage and will not be used long enough. Only reason I am using is because A) I got a good price on it B) I would like it for the increased ghrelin production and C) Because this is my first time using anabolics my androgen receptors should be very sensitive and I feel like 200 mg of equipoise will still give me some lean consistent gains and vascularity on top of the increased ghrelin production. I will be running Aromasin on cycle (25 mg eod) and I will actually include it in my post cycle because Aromasin is not only a suicide inhibitor but it is also an effective FSH and LH stimulator and can be used post cycle. I will continue to run the Sin at 25 mg eod for a couple weeks after my cycle along with proper dosages of Clomid. I shouldn't need more than those 2 drugs post cycle simply because my dosage is relatively low and because of my age my HPTA will recover very quickly.

[younggunz21]

first post.

Yes. Like I said I am new to this specific forum but I am also new to the world of anabolics. This should be considered my "First Cycle" thread as most new members would make.

[GymHero]

Why do you just want to start a debate on this? This thread is pointless, if you want to make a log you posted this in the wrong section.

[younggunz21]

Why do you just want to start a debate on this? This thread is pointless, if you want to make a log you posted this in the wrong section.

^^perfect example of one of "those" guys. Thank you for your contribution.

[GymHero]

"Now I completely agree that 99.99% of teens and even guys in their early 20's should not even consider using AAS for a while. Strictly because of reasons including but not limited to: Lack of Maturity, Little to No knowledge about Anabolics, no knowledge about diet or training, and possible stunting of growth."


You are in the small .00001 %, did you decide that for yourself?

[G4R]

As stated, this site does not condone the help of people who we do not believe are ready for steroids . If you are going to do them, and if you are looking for answers to questions you may have, you will either have to look in the educational threads (as stated), or go to another site that is willing to give possibly harmful 'advice' to anyone just because they are "going to do it anyways".

Look at it from our point of view, I wouldnt tell my kids not to jump off the roof, but then go show them the "safest" way to do it, just because I know they are going to anyways. We give only good, safe advice here. It may not be the advice you want to hear, but it is the correct advice.

Good luck and BE CAREFUL

[TTFU]

Obviously he is dead set on running a cycle.

So let's be good people and NOT teach him and help perfect his cycle so he can potentially mess up. (Note the sarcasm).

PM me.

[stevey_6t9]

no one will give you advice here.

goodluck hope all turns out well.

[G4R]

Obviously he is dead set on running a cycle.

So let's be good people and NOT teach him and help perfect his cycle so he can potentially mess up. (Note the sarcasm).

PM me.

Thats not the way we do things here. We do not advise 19 year old kids on steroids use. So rather than try and talk him out, you just give up on the spot? Nice.

[thenextcutler]

you have money for gear, then you have money to see a bodybuilding trainer. Go see a retired Pro. Any such trainer would be more than happy to set you up with a plan, not just a cycle but an "anabolic plan".

Seriously do it. See a trainer. cuz from your proposed cycle even half the newbs on here could point out obvious mistakes. I'm not gonna help you cuz Im not gonna go against the mods on this one.

And remember, you don't know who's sitting on the other side of these key boards. So you can get advice from gym rats or go see a Pro with proven theories.

[junkiescumbag]

isnt there always a chance you may never recover from a cycle when your endocrine system is still developing?

[G4R]

isnt there always a chance you may never recover from a cycle when your endocrine system is still developing?

Yes....

In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.

[MrGreen]

isnt there always a chance you may never recover from a cycle when your endocrine system is still developing?

yes that is the delima in young users.

[younggunz21]

Yes....

That is neither true nor false. No one understands the human bodies endocrinology system enough to possibly make that statement let alone back it by scientific research. Anyone who tells you that nonsense is lying.

[G4R]

That is neither true nor false. No one understands the human bodies endocrinology system enough to possibly make that statement let alone back it by scientific research. Anyone who tells you that nonsense is lying.

So my statement is false because it can not be backed up scientifically, but your statement of "Anyone who tells you that nonsense is lying" is true?

Look, I am not going to argue with you. You are too young for steroids . If you are looking for advice on how to run them, you are on the wrong site.

[younggunz21]

you have money for gear, then you have money to see a bodybuilding trainer. Go see a retired Pro. Any such trainer would be more than happy to set you up with a plan, not just a cycle but an "anabolic plan".

Seriously do it. See a trainer. cuz from your proposed cycle even half the newbs on here could point out obvious mistakes. I'm not gonna help you cuz Im not gonna go against the mods on this one.

And remember, you don't know who's sitting on the other side of these key boards. So you can get advice from gym rats or go see a Pro with proven theories.

I do and I did. Trainer advised me to do a test only cycle at 400 mg but like I said, EQ came so cheap. Trainer is an IFBB Pro. Also, reason I'm doing clomid is because its the only thing that I can get pharm grade of so I would rather have pharm grade clo than ug nolva.

[iraqiwarrior]

if you have obviously got these good stats and lifts naturally why not just keep going until you reach your maximum potential and than juice when your old enough. You say you progress really well. And EQ is worthless unless 600mg for at least 12 weeks. Id just stick with the test e if your gonna do it. But id listen to these guys once you mess it up theirs no goin back

[younggunz21]

if you have obviously got these good stats and lifts naturally why not just keep going until you reach your maximum potential and than juice when your old enough. You say you progress really well. And EQ is worthless unless 600mg for at least 12 weeks. Id just stick with the test e if your gonna do it. But id listen to these guys once you mess it up theirs no goin back

I believe Patrick Arnold's research showed that as low as 100 mg of equipoise a week yielded nearly a 200% increase in Ghrelin production as well as a 300% increase in RBC's. I wonder if I should up the dosage to 400 mg/wk for 12 weeks...

[younggunz21]

if you have obviously got these good stats and lifts naturally why not just keep going until you reach your maximum potential and than juice when your old enough. You say you progress really well. And EQ is worthless unless 600mg for at least 12 weeks. Id just stick with the test e if your gonna do it. But id listen to these guys once you mess it up theirs no goin back

and like I said... Teen Nationals is definetly one of my goals. Wouldn't be able to do it naturally.

[younggunz21]

So my statement is false because it can not be backed up scientifically, but your statement of "Anyone who tells you that nonsense is lying" is true?

Look, I am not going to argue with you. You are too young for steroids. If you are looking for advice on how to run them, you are on the wrong site.

but if I was 22 and 165 lbs benching 200 you would be happy to help

[j4ever41]

but if I was 22 and 165 lbs benching 200 you would be happy to help

no, he would not!

[G4R]

but if I was 22 and 165 lbs benching 200 you would be happy to help

I dont know where you get those numbers, but yes, I would be happy to help, help get the diet and training down. But still no steroids . I am not picking on you, I am trying to look out for your best intrest, and your best intrest does not involve steroids right now.

[younggunz21]

I dont know where you get those numbers, but yes, I would be happy to help, help get the diet and training down. But still no steroids. I am not picking on you, I am trying to look out for your best intrest, and your best intrest does not involve steroids right now.

ok so I should give up my dream of competing in Teen Nationals?

[tembe]

too young bro

but chances are u will not listen to this advice

so i would run a very basic cycle if you are going to

[younggunz21]

so should I drop the EQ?

[pavlenko]

teen nationals? 200mg eq??? ur trainer is an ifbb pro?? u dont need nothing from this webpage

[G4R]

ok so I should give up my dream of competing in Teen Nationals?

No, absolutely not.

Keep working towards this goal, but do it the smartest, safest way possible. I don't know when Teen nationals is, but if you are convinced you can't get there naturally, I can tell you one cycle is not going to get you in. There are too many different ways you can tweak your diet, and change up your training for you to be convinced steroids are your only option. Look into all the possible ways you can naturally break any plateaus you have hit. Unless teen nationals is your only goal, and you have no interest in competing after that, then you need to look at what is going to be best for you in the long run as opposed to short.

Again, I am not trying to talk you out of doing steroids because of some ego thing. I don't want to see anybody take a chance of doing possible serious long term damage to themselves when it isn't necessary. I just want you to be safe, and it is because of that, I can't in my right mind condone, or advise you on any steroid cycles.

[Matt]

Some good advice above....

[MaNiCC]

Obviously he is dead set on running a cycle.

So let's be good people and NOT teach him and help perfect his cycle so he can potentially mess up. (Note the sarcasm).

PM me.

So you can pm him back^^. Sure you cant pm

Like the others have said, if he is dead set on doing a cycle he will have to find the answers for himself

[Rhinos]

Yes I am going to do it. Start the ultimate debate about steroid usage in teens. I want all input from all levels of experience but I warn you that I am cocked, locked and loaded . Let me start by telling you a little bit about myself.

I just turned 19. I am about 215 lbs and less than 10% body fat. My bench press is 405, my squat is 455 (ass to grass), and deadlift is 535. I have never used any form of AAS although I have done 1 pro-hormone (which I must admit did not yield very impressive results). I train extremely hard and smart. I own my own website for teen fitness and bodybuilding and have written 100's of pages worth of articles. My diet is on point and has been for 1-2 years. I have been training seriously and specifically for bodybuilding for 4 years now and have clearly gotten great results. I plan on doing my first show next year. I was going to wait until I was older before I did a show because I did not want to use steroids at a young age and there was no way that I was wasting all of this hard earned muscle dieting down for a natural show so that I could compete with a bunch of punk ass liars. Yes ladies and gentleman, a lot of those so called "Naturals" are saucin too. But then I hit 405 on a bench press naturally and reality struck. I thought "I am 215 and strong as hell for a natural 18 yr old (just turned 19 a couple weeks ago). Why not try to make it to the top of the game? So that has become my goal. To be the best. I have followed William Llewellyn, Bill Roberts, and Patrick Arnold's research, read almost every steroid book (including Endocrinology books from college course), and have picked the brains of some very intelligent bodybuilding and power lifting coaches for quite some time now. Enough about me though...

The issue that I have is with some current steroid users. Now I completely agree that 99.99% of teens and even guys in their early 20's should not even consider using AAS for a while. Strictly because of reasons including but not limited to: Lack of Maturity, Little to No knowledge about Anabolics, no knowledge about diet or training, and possible stunting of growth. Now what a lot of you older guys need to understand before you go preaching is that their may be a few teens out there that are extremely knowledgeable, mature enough, work very hard, have tangible goals in mind and have obtained medical proof that their growth plates are sealed and are therefore done growing. Things that I see very often on these forums are foolish adults who think that they know everything and try to preach to intelligent young adults like myself. Here are a few things that bother me:

- If you are on your 10th cycle and are taking 1 gram of test, stacked with 150 mg of Anadrol and you are only 220 lbs... You need to lay off the juice because either A) You are doing something wrong or B) Your genetics are terrible and you need to cut your losses. Get over the fact that you will not be Mr. Olympia in this lifetime.

- If you are in your 20's and less than 185 lbs, claiming that you have been working out for 10 years and you are going to do your first cycle. I don't want to hear you telling me that I am not ready for AAS.

- Do not tell me that I am going to mess with my body's natural hormone production because I am only 19. I am sorry my friend but if I am planning on doing well in competitive bodybuilding (which I am) I will have to be on HRT replacement later on in life whether I start at 19 or 25.

- Do not tell someone that they are stupid and in your own post you can't even spell something like Nolvadex or Enanthate correctly.

These are just a few things that I have to say on the topic. I hope that I do not tarnish my reputation on this forum but I felt that I needed to bring up the topic because it is a debate that I have wanted to participate in for quite sometime now. I respect all opinions and want input from all members. Bring it on guys!

Cylce:

My first cycle will be 400 mg of test E a week split into 2 injections a week for 10 weeks, unless I am still seeing results which I will then bump to 12 weeks. I will be stacking it with 200 mg of equipoise (100 in each shot). Now I know that the equipoise is debatable simply because it is not a high enough dosage and will not be used long enough. Only reason I am using is because A) I got a good price on it B) I would like it for the increased ghrelin production and C) Because this is my first time using anabolics my androgen receptors should be very sensitive and I feel like 200 mg of equipoise will still give me some lean consistent gains and vascularity on top of the increased ghrelin production. I will be running Aromasin on cycle (25 mg eod) and I will actually include it in my post cycle because Aromasin is not only a suicide inhibitor but it is also an effective FSH and LH stimulator and can be used post cycle. I will continue to run the Sin at 25 mg eod for a couple weeks after my cycle along with proper dosages of Clomid. I shouldn't need more than those 2 drugs post cycle simply because my dosage is relatively low and because of my age my HPTA will recover very quickly.

With those stats and lifts can we get some pics to back yourself up, respect will be gained from a few pics showing your achievments. I am impressed with your size and bf at your age, however steroids are not the way to go, you still have a high test and could compete without them. The best advice anyone can give you is to continue the path your going and get to the maximum potencial you can without steroids. Once you start on steroids your test will never fully recover again it may go back up but you will not get that good feeling you get without being on juice again. And remember the earlyer you start the more juice your gonna take and the more health risks your gonna have later in life. The chance of shutting down your test or never being able to have kids is not a choice anyone can make at 19 most could not even make that decision at 25. Remember im not the bad guy trying to steal your dreams just trying to give you a word of caution. In the end you make your own decisions. I wish you well what ever you decide.

[MACHINE5150]

I'm going to get my ass chewed out for this, but I did my first and (only complete cycle) at your age (im now 27) and almost exactly your specification.. including bf, weight, and strength.. My first cycle was Test400 @ 600mg a week and Deca Norandorate (of Greek manufacture) at 300mg a week.(way more than what recomended). I did both for ten weeks.. Followed up with HCG and Clomid.. I went from 205lbs to about 230lbs and staid at 225lbs, where i kept it for the remainder of my athletic career.. my bench went from 365lbs 5 times to 405 5 times and can't remember the rest.. I was very puffy though, but i didnt care since i was a rugby player and not a bodybuilder..

That being said, I really wish that i had not done it. YES, I GOT THE RESULTS I WANTED, but i do not know what damage it has done to my body that i WILL NOT KNOW until years later.. I ended up losing it after i got out of college and started working in the "real world". The other issue is that once you go down this road, you will have a hard time stopping, steroids are addictive.. the rush.. the pump.. etc.. i had no choice but to stop because i got arrested and thrown in jail, once out of jail i had to start making a living, and the rest is history.. but had i not been jailed i probably would have kept doing em and been 300lbs with a life expetency of 40 by now.. now that i am older i am more willing to listen to advice and not it a "rush" to get big anymore.. something that happens when you age.. you grow patient.. So as you said, you are going to do what you want to do, but if you do steroids and you have a site advocating fitness you will be a sham. No longer will 16 yo kids be able to look at you and say i wanna be like that guy, he got big naturally and look at him.. now all your previous gains are going to be attributed to Steroids, even though 90% of your gains were made naturally. If you are as serious about fitness as you say you are then lead by example. I did it at your age, but i was a thug looking for a quick fix.

Forgot to add.. my brothers are all 6foot to 6'1" 6'2".. i'm 5'10" and i will never know if i would have been a few inches taller had i just waited a couple years

[gbrice75]

I didn't read through every response because I already know what they are... so not to beat a dead horse but you're way too young for AAS and have a ton of natural potential. Reach your natural limit before considering AAS, or wait another 5-6 years before reconsidering, whichever comes first.

[Swifto]

I would provide the site but unfortunately there is a bio of me and I would rather remain anonymous. There is absolutely no steroid information on there because as I said before...I would never condone steroid use to the average teen so I choose to not provide any information about the subject in my literature.

My first cycle will be 400 mg of test E a week split into 2 injections a week for 10 weeks, unless I am still seeing results which I will then bump to 12 weeks. I will be stacking it with 200 mg of equipoise (100 in each shot). Now I know that the equipoise is debatable simply because it is not a high enough dosage and will not be used long enough. Only reason I am using is because A) I got a good price on it B) I would like it for the increased ghrelin production and C) Because this is my first time using anabolics my androgen receptors should be very sensitive and I feel like 200 mg of equipoise will still give me some lean consistent gains and vascularity on top of the increased ghrelin production. I will be running Aromasin on cycle (25 mg eod) and I will actually include it in my post cycle because Aromasin is not only a suicide inhibitor but it is also an effective FSH and LH stimulator and can be used post cycle. I will continue to run the Sin at 25 mg eod for a couple weeks after my cycle along with proper dosages of Clomid. I shouldn't need more than those 2 drugs post cycle simply because my dosage is relatively low and because of my age my HPTA will recover very quickly.

Your certainly not a "know-all" when it comes to PCT.

I dont know what Endocrinology books you have been reading mate...

[Swifto]

That is neither true nor false. No one understands the human bodies endocrinology system enough to possibly make that statement let alone back it by scientific research. Anyone who tells you that nonsense is lying.

So what about the PM's I get from 18-21 years old that cant even get an erection?

I guess their talking nonsence?

Your another example of thinking they know everything, when infact, you dont at all.