so i went to the doc today

**ml87** · 08-13-2010, 04:47 PM

i got bloodwork done a week ago and today i went in to follow up. i cycled test e 400mg/wk, deca 400mg/wk and winnie and ened in may. i pct'ed with hcg (too much), nolvadex , and clomid. the pct ended a few weeks ago for i started it too early (1 week after last pin or test). So in turn my levels are TERRIBLE.. i am 23 and my test, free test, and igf-1 are really low. so my doc wants me to take hcg and clomid again. he's also throwing in the arimidex for my gyno. how much of each should i take to get my leves back? he said 100mg clomid for 30 days and arimidex for 60 days.. hcg he left up to me.

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-13-2010, 04:50 PM

He left up to you? Odd for a doctor to just leave it up to the patient to decide what dosages he should take..

**ml87** · 08-13-2010, 04:58 PM

well i told him that he was nuts for telling me to do 1000iu/day of hcg .. so i figure maybe ill do 500iu today and the 100 iu eod?

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-13-2010, 05:07 PM

You can do 100iu EOD and asses from there.

**fleck** · 08-13-2010, 05:30 PM

i wouldnt say 1000 ius is too much if ur test is rock bottom.

**TTFU** · 08-13-2010, 05:38 PM

Watch out for estro problems with that much HCG .

**ml87** · 08-13-2010, 07:12 PM

im afraid that the 1000ius is what made my test hit rock bottom.
test: 195 average 280-800
free test: 7.2 average 9.3-26.5
igf-1: 146 average 116-358

and then my rbc, hemoglobin, and hematocrit are all high

my prolactin is 7.9 when average is 4.0-15.2

**ml87** · 08-13-2010, 10:17 PM

im going to also take some tribulus to see if it helps..

**stevey_6t9** · 08-13-2010, 10:29 PM

run another pct

**ml87** · 08-14-2010, 07:59 PM

hope this one ends up working..

**Twist** · 08-15-2010, 12:02 AM

sticky this for the newbs and people who think steroids don't cause problems.

**lovbyts** · 08-15-2010, 01:08 AM

BTW did anyone tell/recommend you NOT to do a cycle yet due to age? Geee why do you think that was????

This happens more than you or we know. Most dont bother to post back again but more than we know who wont listen have problems like yours or worse.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=292838

Not only did you not listen then but you continued to do more, more and as fate would have it....

Now I would like to know do you think the last couple years of use was/is worth the gyno and other problems?

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-15-2010, 02:36 AM

Damn people actually threw out cycle advise in that thread too.

**ReX357** · 08-15-2010, 08:37 AM

Wow.

Can a mod make a sticky with a link to all the threads where people don't listen to the advice and end up with problems?

Just something like

f*ckface18

Advice he didn't listen to:
http://forums.steroid.com/advicethread

Results:
http://forums.steroid.com/icantgethardanymore

(Don't click those links they obviously don't work)

**baseline_9** · 08-15-2010, 08:43 AM

Running HCG is o ly going to further supress you.

Run another PCT

Nolva and Clomid

**Brodon** · 08-15-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

Running HCG is o ly going to further supress you.

Run another PCT

Nolva and Clomid

Stop taking hcg on a PCT, do not taper, cease taking it altogether..

you should only be using it to maintain the function of the testicles while using steroids

Take a look at this first of all:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=292564 and http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398794

**ml87** · 08-15-2010, 09:42 AM

im not a newb, i am just new to hcg and everywhere i look the advice is different. so i listened to my doctor who in this case told me some old school stuff and it didnt work. so the hcg is got going to help in this pct at all?

**baseline_9** · 08-15-2010, 12:00 PM

HCG should be run durring cycle up until PCT to maintain size and function on your nads.

Read about it

**LGM** · 08-15-2010, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by ReX357

Wow.

Can a mod make a sticky with a link to all the threads where people don't listen to the advice and end up with problems?

Just something like

f*ckface18

Advice he didn't listen to:
http://forums.steroid.com/advicethread

Results:
http://forums.steroid.com/icantgethardanymore

(Don't click those links they obviously don't work)

great idea. +1

**redhulkarmor** · 08-15-2010, 01:16 PM

ok my man, i wont quite call bs on your 'doctor told me' cause it might be somewhat possible..bbbuuuuuutt maybe youre just using that as a cover.

1st thing is the only thing i think the doctor would recom. hcg for is if your nuts are atrophied from the cycle...in that case id first run 1000ius for 5 days...then 500ius for 5 days.... id start running the adex on the same day as the hcg 1mg e3d. wait 4 days after last hcg shot...start clomid as pres..if you use nolva along side it will enhance recovery... if you have a decent supply of adex you can run it thoughout and it will prolly enhance your lh levels.

good luck.

**Nooomoto** · 08-15-2010, 01:47 PM

There is a sticky entitled "Swifto's HCG and PCT Advice"...should have read it bud! This is from the sticky:

Use HCG when "on" to maintain testicular size/function.

My advice is:

Steroid /ProHormone cycle causing HPTA shutdown (HCG may not be needed in cycles below 6 weeks IMHO)

Use HCG 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly. This will maintain testicular function by maintaining endogenous testosterone prodction and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone). Using HCG throughout is the best protocol available IMHO. This is confirmed by Endocrinologists I have had contact with. It will also prevent the onset of testicular dysfunction by directly stimulating the testes.

After this peroid we then use PCT to restart GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH/FSH from the pituitary. When beginning PCT, switch to another AI also.

For more informtaion on HCG, see this thread I wrote: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=398794

In other words: HCG for during the cycle, not after!

**dec11** · 08-15-2010, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by ml87

im going to also take some tribulus to see if it helps..

waste of money.

pm swifto, hes the resident pct expert

**dec11** · 08-15-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

There is a sticky entitled "Swifto's HCG and PCT Advice"...should have read it bud! This is from the sticky:

In other words: HCG for during the cycle, not after!

i've had success using either protocol with HCG. i do, however, agree that prevention is better than cure

**ml87** · 08-17-2010, 08:40 AM

just an update. i decided to run a pct again and yes, with hcg . just a low dose to spark them back up. friday i started with 500iu's and now im dong 200ius eod. already my testes started to grow again and my libido is coming back. i am also running clomid and adex.. so im lucking out and next time i definitely will use hcg as part of my cycle.

**magic32** · 08-17-2010, 12:35 PM

Just looks jacked up to me.
---------------------------
How long was your cycle?
How long was your pct, and at what dosages?
When did gyno start? And you'll need something stronger than Adex to effectively combat it, preferably Nolva or Letro at modest dosages until resolved. The former is a good preventive measure, but the latter drugs are best for resolution.

Don't worry so much about your nads, they're symptomatic and will recover when you do.

**critical** · 08-17-2010, 07:54 PM

obviously, you ****ed up on the pct. once you do a proper one, test your levels a month or so down the line. it will represent a more accurate reading of where you're at.

**Swifto** · 08-18-2010, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by magic32

Just looks jacked up to me.
---------------------------
How long was your cycle?
How long was your pct, and at what dosages?
When did gyno start? And you'll need something stronger than Adex to effectively combat it, preferably Nolva or Letro at modest dosages until resolved. The former is a good preventive measure, but the latter drugs are best for resolution.

Don't worry so much about your nads, they're symptomatic and will recover when you do.

Would you please go into more detail magic?

**ml87** · 08-18-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by redhulkarmor

ok my man, i wont quite call bs on your 'doctor told me' cause it might be somewhat possible..bbbuuuuuutt maybe youre just using that as a cover.

1st thing is the only thing i think the doctor would recom. hcg for is if your nuts are atrophied from the cycle...in that case id first run 1000ius for 5 days...then 500ius for 5 days.... id start running the adex on the same day as the hcg 1mg e3d. wait 4 days after last hcg shot...start clomid as pres..if you use nolva along side it will enhance recovery... if you have a decent supply of adex you can run it thoughout and it will prolly enhance your lh levels.

good luck.

So don't start the clomid until I'm done with hcg? I was going to run hcg 20 days, clomid 30 days and adex 60 days.

**ml87** · 08-18-2010, 06:35 PM

heres the final pct...
200iu hct eod for 10 days (just to spark)
1.5mg arimidex eod for 60 days
100mg clomid ed for 30 days

and i stocked up on hcg so that next time i will take it during cycle. how does this one sound?