Outline of 1st Cycle, Tips and Advice Welcome

**Johnx2** · 09-03-2010, 03:59 PM

Ok this is my first cycle and I'm 27, been training for about 7 years, I'm about 5'7" 150 lbs with a 8% bf. I'm really lean and defined but want more bulk and size. I'm going to be doing 500 mg/week of Test Cyp and after reading C Bino's gyno/Estro sides thread I also want to run Letro @ 0.25mg/day for the course of the cycle to be safe and proactive in preventing Estro sides like gyno rather than waiting for symptoms to arise and treating the problem, I prefer to avoid those issues altogether. Should I be running the Letro all the way up to the point that I begin PCT 2 weeks after my last Test injection?

Ok here's my PCT from searching through several threads and getting general advice:

Tamox Clomid aromasin

Week 1 40mg/day 100mg/day 25mg/day
Week 2 20mg/day 50mg/day 25mg/day
Week 3 20mg/day 50mg/day 25mg/day
Week 4 20mg/day 25mg/day 25mg/day

Do you guys have any recommendations or see anything that I should adjust or change about the PCT or is that pretty good? Also about running the Letro during the course of the cycle when exactly should I stop taking the daily Letro? Any advice or tips from experience would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

**LouHulk** · 09-03-2010, 04:03 PM

Short answer is yes, run the letro all the way till you start the PCT. You will likely get an estrogen rebound once you stop taking the Letro. So be prepared and have nolva and the rest of your pct set to go the next day after your last dose of Letro. Not sure that you need aromasin for pct with the nolva and clomid combo.

Honestly unless you have already statred I'd get a less harsh AI than Letro, like Adex would work better imo. Folks are probably going to tell you that your pretty light in weight but I'll leave that one alone.

**Sector** · 09-03-2010, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by LouHulk

Honestly unless you have already statred I'd get a less harsh AI than Letro, like Adex would work better imo.

x2 Letro is too strong just to be used as a precaution. Should only be used to reverse signs of gyno in my opinion.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-03-2010, 04:14 PM

John the Aromasin will kill 85% of estro.. use that. Letro should be a last resort. Also, aromasin is an AI not used during PCT, use it while on cycle.

**Johnx2** · 09-03-2010, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

John the Aromasin will kill 85% of estro.. use that. Letro should be a last resort. Also, aromasin is an AI not used during PCT, use it while on cycle.

Ok, I haven't actually started but am about to start the cycle. So treat the Letro as a last resort in the event of any gyno appearing? How much Aromasin during the cycle? 25mg per day or is that overkill? If I don't even need to use the Letro during the cycle and just aromasin should I then run a strictly clomid/tamox PCT?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-03-2010, 04:29 PM

yea thats over the top for the aromasin . Start small and go up slowly until you find what your body responds to best. I'd start with 10mg eod.

**TKO Performance** · 09-03-2010, 04:55 PM

Have to chime in on this because you are not ready to cycle yet. Training for seven years and still only 150lbs? Something is very wrong. Either training is not right or diet is not right. Without those two being right you will not see gains from steroids , and even if you do they will be lost once the cycle is over. You need to get up to 185-190 at current BF% naturally before taking steroids.

**HawaiianPride.** · 09-03-2010, 06:27 PM

Beat me to it^

**Johnx2** · 09-03-2010, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

Have to chime in on this because you are not ready to cycle yet. Training for seven years and still only 150lbs? Something is very wrong. Either training is not right or diet is not right. Without those two being right you will not see gains from steroids, and even if you do they will be lost once the cycle is over. You need to get up to 185-190 at current BF% naturally before taking steroids.

I've been in the military since right after high school which had caused me to run a lot of miles and not be able to hold onto bulk or most gains. I don't look like I'm 150, if you're picturing me being very thin or skinny.

**HawaiianPride.** · 09-03-2010, 07:00 PM

You look 150, you just carry little BF. Good symmetry and shape.

How do those macros look?

**Johnx2** · 09-03-2010, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

You look 150, you just carry little BF. Good symmetry and shape.

How do those macros look?

Macros?

So if I were to begin a cycle now that I don't run a ton of miles how would you suggest that I alter the cycle I outlined in the first post?

**HawaiianPride.** · 09-03-2010, 07:24 PM

Macronutrients. The amount of protein/carbs/fats/cals you consume per day.

In order to make gains and maintain the size you receive from the cycle, you'll need to eat over a certain limit to compensate with the new mass you have put on.

This is why you aren't cycle ready yet. You need to address your diet first and your weight to height ratio shows me that the cycle will only lead to disappointment at the rate you are eating.

**Johnx2** · 09-04-2010, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

Macronutrients. The amount of protein/carbs/fats/cals you consume per day.

In order to make gains and maintain the size you receive from the cycle, you'll need to eat over a certain limit to compensate with the new mass you have put on.

This is why you aren't cycle ready yet. You need to address your diet first and your weight to height ratio shows me that the cycle will only lead to disappointment at the rate you are eating.

Ok cool, I got you.

So I did some research about eating for gaining bulk and came up with this diet:

36 g of protein per meal, 120 g carbs/meal, and 15 g fats/meal over the course of my 5 meals a day.

The calculator said that would be about 720 daily calories coming from protein, 2400 daily calories from carbs and 675 from fats giving me a grand total of 3795 calories a day spread out over the course of 5 meals(one every 3 hrs.) I already have been eating 5 times a day for some time now and eat about 36 g of protein each meal but I def. think I would need to step up the carb consumption and a little fat also. Does that sound about right or would you suggest changing that diet? One of my main carbs of choice is usually brown rice, does a diet like this mean that I would have to go by the carb grams on the nutritional label or the total grams of cooked rice? For example, a cooked cup of brown rice is said to have 33g of carbs according to the nutritional info so would I have to eat almost 4 times that to get up to the 120g of carbs/meal this diet recommends? It seems kind of excessive, what do you think?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-04-2010, 08:03 AM

John the calculators are good for getting a general idea of what needs to be done as far as macros go. It will still take time for you to see how your body responds and to make the necessary adjustments.

Head over to the diet forum, you will get better help there in regards to your intake.